camber caster gauges

[fordsbyjay]

Can anybody recommend a good camber caster gauge?

I have a smart level already so I was considering one of these.http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/p..._Camber_Gauges

I was also looking at the standard unit like this but there different models. http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/p..._Camber_Gauges

I have multiple cars with either stock hubs and I also have one car with a Wilwood hub. I believe it is aluminum so I am not sure if that is any consideration.

Any thoughts or comments would be greatly appreciated.

[JRouche]

Here is my tool. I have aluminum parts so a magnet setup was not possible. And I like to have a solid mounting. Some pics and a decent post on how to make the tool JR

http://www.stevesnovasite.com/forums...73#post1372973

[fordsbyjay]

That is pretty sweet but out of my league. I bought a smartcamber frame for my smart level so we will see how that works out.

[David Pozzi]

If your wheels are open enough, you can stick the magnetic type to the rotor. I made up a washer type deal to insert into the wheel center & stick the mag gauge to that.
To measure caster, you really need turntables, or some very accurate way to measure 20 deg wheel turn in, and out.
David

[JRouche]

That is pretty sweet but out of my league. I bought a smartcamber frame for my smart level so we will see how that works out.

Its SO not out of yer league. When I posted the pics on another thread it wasnt to say hey, look how nice this is. I did it to show that a guy, any of you could take some aluminum bars and make a simple tool. Its just simple bar stock bolted together.

I did take some extra time to counter bore the bars for the bolts and other things to make it a "tool". But to be honest, thats not needed.

If a guy can drill some holes, not many either, he can make the same tool. Just bar stock thats been bolted together.

And for holding the protractor? Hell, you only need a decent plate thats a good 90* from the vertical bar. Hold the protractor to the bottom plate anyway that you can. Heck, tie wraps would work, umm yeah, duct tape will work too. No need for all of that other metal surrounding the protractor. Its just fluff.

Im not a protectionist. Far from it. Ill use tie wraps and duct tape to get the job done.

15 dollars of aluminum bar is what I used because thats what I could afford. And it was handy, had it laying around. If I didnt have the aluminum and had some solid oak pieces of wood you would have seen it in oak.

And the spud for the spindle? Yep, if I had a 2" dowel of oak but not a 2" round of aluminum you would have seen that spud made from wood also. Just depends on what is at hand for supplies.

My intention was to say that any of us car guys can make a simple tool. Many variations of it. But the ending tool might not look the same but will get us through the measuring that is needed. Some of us need to improvise. We dont have the cash to spend. JR

[SVTforme]

I have the Longacre one you listed above - works great. Picked it for $75 new on Ebay from someone that bought it new and never used it. For quick caster setup, it has 20 deg flats on the front fact. I just put a 6' level flush against these and true it to the side of the car. Works perfect it your wheels are open enough as David mentioned above.

[John Wright]

I have the Longacre one you listed above - works great.

That was going to be my suggestion too...Longacre has some decent tools that are easy to use.

[David Pozzi]

Just a note, I like Digital instruments, but went with a bubble gauge because there are no batteries to go dead, and you don't need to zero it before use.
If you do use a digital gauge, make sure it's properly set to zero. A good way to check any gauge is to clamp a piece of bar stock or a carpenters level upright in a vise, place the gauge on one side, then the other side and compare readings. Even if the bar or level is not perfectly vertical, your gauge should read equally on both sides, but one might read positive, the other negative.

[Roadbuster]

Here is my tool. I have aluminum parts so a magnet setup was not possible. And I like to have a solid mounting. Some pics and a decent post on how to make the tool JR

http://www.stevesnovasite.com/forums...73#post1372973

JRouche,
That is some impressive fab work there! Nicely designed and the final result looks great!

Jon

[JRouche]

Just a note, I like Digital instruments, but went with a bubble gauge because there are no batteries to go dead, and you don't need to zero it before use.
If you do use a digital gauge, make sure it's properly set to zero. A good way to check any gauge is to clamp a piece of bar stock or a carpenters level upright in a vise, place the gauge on one side, then the other side and compare readings. Even if the bar or level is not perfectly vertical, your gauge should read equally on both sides, but one might read positive, the other negative.

Hahaha. David, you sound like me. I have been slow to go with the digital measuring tools.

I have a very well stocked machine shop. Mostly mechanical gauges. All quality tools (starrett, mitutoyo, brown & sharpe and a few others) and I have started to use digital gauges within the last five years. Bought some quality digital gauges, mostly Mits. And was always double checking the measurements against my mechanical gauges. That got old. The numbers were always right on. Im talking about .001" gauges and on some occasions the .0005" gauge and for some stuff the .0001" indicators (far and few).

So I got "comfortable" with the accuracy of the digital tools. And they dont eat batteries. The Mits tools shut off if I forget to, batts last a good five years for me.

Now, the SPI gauges I use for the camber/caster tool??? SPI used to be a good manufacture. Be aware though that they have an inexpensive "off shore" line now too. And thats my gauges.

So I checked them, triple checked them. Yes all the "zeroing" procedures. And to be honest. They are spot on. I checked them next both of my two starrett 199 15" calibrated master precision levels. Best bubble levels you can get. I checked them for deviation, not level.

I put a .005" shim under the digital protractor and it gave me an offset from zero of .2 degrees. Thats a number, one that I can work with. I did the same thing with both of my starrett levels and it did show me a move in the bubble. But it was such a small amount, a half of a graduation from what I saw. Thats with a really sensitive level.

My point. No way are ANY of the bubble caster/camber gauges as sensitive as the levels that I used. And it was still a subjective issue when sighting the bubble gauge. The digital gauge gave me a firm number that can be repeated over and over again.

The the digital gauges are consistent with a number. I have many solid surfaces in my shop that are a "constant", they dont move. And I can place the digital protractor on them over time and the gauge will still get it right on the money. And with a resolution of .1 degrees thats pretty darn good. No subjective interpretation of the bubble location.

My thinking. For a car alignment the bubble gauges WORK. Peeps been using them for a long time with great results. And the digital gauges work also. If you are a number type of a guy the digital is nice. I like numbers. JR

[MrQuick]

Hey JR, I thought you help these guys out and open an Ebay store already.

j/k
Vince

[JRouche]

JRouche,
That is some impressive fab work there! Nicely designed and the final result looks great!

Jon

Thanks Jon.. Just some aluminum bar bolted together.. A good project for ALL of the guys here. Id love to see some of the folks here get out there and bolt some metal or even wood up to make a tool that might cost them money if bought. Save a few bucks and get back to making the simple tools needed to get the job done.

I love the idea of doing it yerself. Hate the idea of tossing someone else a 100 note when the material is right there in yer face. Got a jigsaw? A hacksaw? And a drill motor? Thats all you need.

I cant afford it but I need it. Make it from the parts on hand. I learnd alot from my old friend Mike, yep the greasy harley dude. Learned to make it happen from him and others. JR

[JRouche]

Hey JR, I thought you help these guys out and open an Ebay store already.

j/k
Vince

Ha. Funny. I dont have any time for making money, IM FRICKIN RETIRED!!! But.... Ill be happy to help a guy out to make his own. Just a simple drilling and bolting process. And really, thats all it is. Anyone need help Im here.. Kinda funny. You should see all of the rest of the crooked tools I make up. It doesnt need to be pretty. Just needs to work. JR

[MrQuick]

Ha. Funny. I dont have any time for making money, IM FRICKIN RETIRED!!!

that might take me time to settle. I'll get the concept one day. LOL


thanks JR


Vince

[David Pozzi]

JR, I have two early digital calipers, both usually have dead batteries, one is on all the time and runs down pretty fast, but it was freebe when I bought my new bandsaw, the other is a "Foster"? it can be turned off and the batteries will last maybe a year, but it's more bulky than my dial caliper, and honestly I can't machine anything to .0005" tolerance anyway. I've got a little DRO for depth on my mill that has worked for years, so I guess the newer stuff is way better on batteries.

I do like the digital stuff when it works. I have a couple of digital levels and they seem to not be so hard on batteries.
David

[JRouche]

JR, I have two early digital calipers, both usually have dead batteries, one is on all the time and runs down pretty fast, but it was freebe when I bought my new bandsaw, the other is a "Foster"? it can be turned off and the batteries will last maybe a year, but it's more bulky than my dial caliper, and honestly I can't machine anything to .0005" tolerance anyway. I've got a little DRO for depth on my mill that has worked for years, so I guess the newer stuff is way better on batteries.

I do like the digital stuff when it works. I have a couple of digital levels and they seem to not be so hard on batteries.
David

Oh, I know what you mean David. I have some inexpensive digital calipers from china. And believe it, I like those. I keep those for the metal rack when looking for a piece of stock. I dont mind it if I bang them around. My problem with those is I forget to turn them off. And yes, dead as a mechanical set after long. The Mitutoyo with auto turn off is prolly the only reason they have a long batt life. But I keep the Mits for measuring at the lathe or mill. Too expensive for me to be banging it around in the stock pile.

And yeah, why the heck would anyone need .0005" resolution on a caliper? I dont get that either. I dont use calipers for anything below .001" And NO!! I cant machine to .0005" tolrance either.

But I can measure to that tolerance and sometimes thats all thats needed. Like when setting up an engine. When I built my engine I made a spread sheet (hand written, Im not all that good with computers) of all the measured surfaces. Bores, piston diameters, bearing surfaces on the crank, rod IDs, main bearing caps, and bearing thicknesses, the works. Then matched parts to keep a "nominal" clearance. And it was while using a .0005" gauge (mic). More so for the crank/bearing/rod clearances.

I did mention using a gauge with a .0005" resolution, but I should have clarified, it is a micrometer. And I rarely use that in hand unless I have to. Ill use that on the surface plate and a holder. And for the .0001" gauge, thats a test indicator. Again on the surface plate for comparison checking not direct measuring.

For hand held gauges Im able to do everything I need with .001" gauges, digital or mechanical, I like them both.. And to be honest. When Im using micrometers at the machine its always a mechanical gauge. I have a 0-12" set and its mechanical. I only have two digital micrometers, and they are only 0-1", kinda limited. And Ive never really used them much.

Im comfortable using mechanical mics. Just my thing. But for calipers I do like the digitals.

DROs?? Yup, have a couple of them. But my machines are mostly CNC so Im still relying on a digital gauge of some sort. Rotary encoders not linear but still a digital readout.

And really. I LOVE it all. Certain tools for specific work. JR

[JRouche]

that might take me time to settle. I'll get the concept one day. LOL
Vince

Haaaa. Didnt mean to dig the retirement thang in there. Just trying to be funny is all. Its just that Im newly retired and loving it. Who knows. Some day I might have to get back to work. Finances are a tricky thing. But.... God forgiving Ill be able to keep on tinkering in my garage till the day I.... Well, you know. Kick the bucket. I keep that bucket FULL of scrap steel too so no chance of it getting accidentally knocked over. After all, I am kinda clumsy. LOL

But until then Ill be more than happy to help any folks out and really happy to take some tips from all the folks around. I take much more info from here than I give. JR