Awd ?????

[93Polo]

the new camaro is designed for AWD. you can look into there front suspension as everything has clearance for a diff, drive shaft and the hubs are already splined for axles. you can find them wrecked already.

I'd be looking for Holden Message boards, it looks like they have offered AWD with LS engines down under.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uD-jG4tVTDo

I understand C5/C6 use the same knuckles front and rear but not have read of anyone using the rear bearings on the front in an AWD build.

[rednecknate]

The nissan stuff sound good..The only problems would be that it is Japanese, and you can't disengage it to do burnouts... ;D
Just remember that if you are doing some other suspension then a fwd geometry would be what you would need in the front, NOT a corvette or something. Corvettes were not designed to have power running to the front wheels.

Actually with the Skyline stuff i can disconnect the front diff To do burn outs......... That was one of the major things i looked at ..Im not sure how to do it but there are 100 video's of guys doing burnouts then launching them in awd... if i end up going this route ill end up using all the front suspension tranny t case etc form the Skyline and putting it to the lsx.. there have been a few successful swaps of v8's into the skylines and there is a guy in Canada that is putting a ls1 into one now.. a few guys have done the Nissan titan engines into them and some toyota engine's

One kinda cool thing is the ls engine actually are smaller than the inline 6 that came in the skyline..and about 60lbs lighter.

I am really supprissed how inexpensive this stuff is i found a complete front half of a car engine and all for $1200 bucks..its the smaller engine but i believe they use the same components..

Tons and tons of thought will go into this as i haven't even got the car back yet.. 4th of July weekend she be coming home all 1200 miles of it yay!! to daddy again to be rapped and pillaged and cut to flipping pieces..

[rednecknate]

I'd be looking for Holden Message boards, it looks like they have offered AWD with LS engines down under.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uD-jG4tVTDo

I understand C5/C6 use the same knuckles front and rear but not have read of anyone using the rear bearings on the front in an AWD build.

Thats funny i just watched that video like 5 minutes ago and got another hair in my ass!!!!!!1 Ugh ugh... Its gonna be interesting for sure i am lossing sleep now though cause i keep seeing so many possiblilitys..

[79PonchoUK]

If you want a handling car, I'd lose the idea. It really isn't a plug-and-play type of thing. Today's cars that have AWD are lightyears ahead of the Cyclone with the intelligent torque management. Without that, you just have a 4WD musclecar.

That's rubbish.

The dodge stealth/GTO/3000GT or whatever you want to call it makes excellent use of the 4WD system. It handles on the merit of a good setup....I've been assured it's not active.

My A6 Quattro just has Torsen Diffs, it's not electronic either.

Setting up a 4wd car is no different to any other. Try it in anger, adjust, try again. It's still spring rates, anti-roll bars and geometry. And lots of reading in the suspenstion section of this forum. lol

[79PonchoUK]

the stock drive train in these cars hold over 1000 hp in stock configuration WOW i was blown away by that..

Don't believe everything you hear about skylines. I've had one with a dead tranny on my drive.
On the older types, the rear diffs are what control the bias. They have an oil pump on the diffs that engages/disengages the front bias depending on the flow from that pump to the transfer box. It's fundamentally a very simple system. The later ones used abs sensors and need the ECUs to monitor wheel speeds etc....they're very similar to most other modern 4wd systems including the Ford Explorer.


I couldn't have nissan parts on my car though. Something about Nissan after being up close with skylines...they're just not solid.

Incidentally, I'd quite like to use the explorer running gear on a muscle car. I think it'd work quite well. It didn't look too big under there, it's obviously very strong and plentiful. The front suspension is no good for a car, but the axle will be and the back end is very muscle car friendly indeed.

PS, audi stuff is useless. There's a reason Audi's don't handle and that's because the 4wd arrangement just isn't a good one. Engine is far too far forward.

[ArtosDracon]

Besides the R8 you mean?

And I happen to agree with you, there's no reason a properly set-up AWD system can't handle well, it's 99% just a packaging issue and if you're willing to do the work, it'll be just fine!

C5/6 spindles with rear hubs I think are the way to go. C4 differential for the rear and a 12-bolt out of an IFS truck might be the best way to go, with custom outer axles obviously. Geometry is going to have to be custom, there's no way around that. Front might be difficult depending on where you can mount the engine, if you're willing to do the work to get the engine behind the rack, you could just about fit the axle right under the accessory drive. It's not going to be easy by and means.

The one hurdle that I think is going to be insurmountable is the weight, AWD is going to add 250+lbs.

[rednecknate]

Don't believe everything you hear about skylines. I've had one with a dead tranny on my drive.
On the older types, the rear diffs are what control the bias. They have an oil pump on the diffs that engages/disengages the front bias depending on the flow from that pump to the transfer box. It's fundamentally a very simple system. The later ones used abs sensors and need the ECUs to monitor wheel speeds etc....they're very similar to most other modern 4wd systems including the Ford Explorer.


I couldn't have nissan parts on my car though. Something about Nissan after being up close with skylines...they're just not solid.

Incidentally, I'd quite like to use the explorer running gear on a muscle car. I think it'd work quite well. It didn't look too big under there, it's obviously very strong and plentiful. The front suspension is no good for a car, but the axle will be and the back end is very muscle car friendly indeed.

PS, audi stuff is useless. There's a reason Audi's don't handle and that's because the 4wd arrangement just isn't a good one. Engine is far too far forward.

hmmm interesting perspective on the skyline ill have to do more investigation on the Skyline stuff i was just really excited to find a Inline engine setup that the chassis is narrow enough to run under the ChevyII.... that could handle at-least decent power..but there is no way id do Explorer stuff or any Any domestic smaller truck t case really for that matter.. Other than a Hd t case which is a monster...i used to Own a 4wd shop and that stuff is garbage..... neat concept but i used to repair those t case's diffs constantly..

I Have the strongest front diff otion sitting in my garage right now... an 8" ring gear diff outta a late fj Cruiser 33 spline axles BUt its Big... I liked the skyline since its incorperated in the il pan So the car sits low..... There is a guy Doing a LS1 swap into a Skyline in Canada an he say's there's more room for the ls then the inline 6 stock engine dimension wise...


I have been looking into the c5 -c6- camaro stuff but am trying to avoid to much one off stuff and odd combo's
I should also mention as of now the rear will just be Solid axle Not Irs for simplicity reason and cost.. and i don't think it'll be worth it over all to go IRS other than the Cool factor...

As far as weight Part of the reason i was looking into Skline was that also ... and Floor board issues..... I wanna still be able to have a passenger seat an keep it low.. Almost every domestic t case i have looked at Would either hang far to low "ride height" or not allow for a seat in the car due to Where the case would have to sit for the driveshaft..

[ArtosDracon]

It wouldn't be as easy, but flipping the t-case to the passenger side has been done before, I've seen it at least twice. Also, take look around for an AWD turbo C3, the miracles they worked with the t-case clearance for the drivers seat is really quite impressive.

[rednecknate]

It wouldn't be as easy, but flipping the t-case to the passenger side has been done before, I've seen it at least twice. Also, take look around for an AWD turbo C3, the miracles they worked with the t-case clearance for the drivers seat is really quite impressive.

Kinda lost on the Transfer case flip...The skyline is on the passenger..

Whats a C3 awd?? ill google it.. I did decide atlease for the Summer im gonna scoop up a 350/350 combo since its already set up for it and just roll it like that till the winter...So got some time for lots of research..

[ArtosDracon]

I meant C3 Corvette, they used a syclone front clip, which is fine since they just drag race, but they have a driver side t-case, which is standard amongst US auto makers. Flipping it to the passenger side would give you more floorboard clearance for the drivers seat, but I don't know that it would be necessary.

[tyoneal]

Dare to be Different, and although NOT a US Drivetrain, If you could find a Late model Evo and slip the right parts under your old car, you'd have a killer handling car. The yaw control alone would make you un-beatable on a road course.

What they have done to those cars as far as active power management is truly incredible. I wish I had the talent to add it to any car I own. It would instantly be my favorite.

Good Luck,

Ty

[Bjkadron]

Dare to be Different, and although NOT a US Drivetrain, If you could find a Late model Evo and slip the right parts under your old car, you'd have a killer handling car. The yaw control alone would make you un-beatable on a road course.

What they have done to those cars as far as active power management is truly incredible. I wish I had the talent to add it to any car I own. It would instantly be my favorite.

Good Luck,

Ty

That sounds like a nightmare in ECU integration... But sounds AWESOME from a performance standpoint.

[rednecknate]

Not sure where im heading with this ......Yet.. I had located a complete skyline front Cut half for 1200 bucks but it fell through..

I did find the Poland guys that did the Sy/ty conversion that's the original though but i fear the suspension would jest suck to bad... I think i could make a huge design improvement using that as a base platform but who know's at this point .....


I love the EVO idea i have a friend with a 600 plus hp one and its nuts... But so far the only import i have seen that is AWD with the engine sitting the correct way is the Skyline stuff.....

[79PonchoUK]

hmmm interesting perspective on the skyline ill have to do more investigation on the Skyline stuff i was just really excited to find a Inline engine setup that the chassis is narrow enough to run under the ChevyII.... that could handle at-least decent power..but there is no way id do Explorer stuff or any Any domestic smaller truck t case really for that matter.. Other than a Hd t case which is a monster...i used to Own a 4wd shop and that stuff is garbage..... neat concept but i used to repair those t case's diffs constantly..

I Have the strongest front diff otion sitting in my garage right now... an 8" ring gear diff outta a late fj Cruiser 33 spline axles BUt its Big... I liked the skyline since its incorperated in the il pan So the car sits low..... There is a guy Doing a LS1 swap into a Skyline in Canada an he say's there's more room for the ls then the inline 6 stock engine dimension wise...


I have been looking into the c5 -c6- camaro stuff but am trying to avoid to much one off stuff and odd combo's
I should also mention as of now the rear will just be Solid axle Not Irs for simplicity reason and cost.. and i don't think it'll be worth it over all to go IRS other than the Cool factor...

As far as weight Part of the reason i was looking into Skline was that also ... and Floor board issues..... I wanna still be able to have a passenger seat an keep it low.. Almost every domestic t case i have looked at Would either hang far to low "ride height" or not allow for a seat in the car due to Where the case would have to sit for the driveshaft..

You could move the transfer case. It doesn't have to be sat where it is as stock does it?

I don't know how you can knock the domestic stuff. I've had explorers and the abuse I gave it would have seen the hilux or patrol my mate had off the road for a month. lol. You've got to remeber, you're going to be half a ton lighter than anything they've seen before. It won't break.


Yeah the Evos are transverse, so no good for this app. They do corner amazingly, but at 600 horses they simply don't last 5 minutes. They're quite boring to drive after a while too IMO. There is such a thing as too much grip for the engine.

[mikedc]

I agree about the domestic truck thing. No matter how much they break under the factory truck we're still talking about a vehicle that weighs half a ton less now. I doubt they would break under power in a small 2dr car.

I also agree about too much grip taking the fun out of a car. It might be fun to split the power 80/20 or 70/30, but I would not want it anywhere near a 50/50 split or you'd just take the fun out of the car. IMHO the most fun setup would probably be to do all this work for the sake of just adding a small portion of the power to the front end.

[Memphis]

The Ford Sierra XR4i has awd and its engine sits correctly.

[rednecknate]

Ill have to reasearch the ford xrti thing Not sure what that is...Is it the same as a Merkur ?? I thought those were 2wd I had a friend with one that had a sweet turbo'ed 4 cyl But his was definatley 2wd casue we put a T5 form a mustang in it!!


As far As knocking the domestic stuff im not really... If i was to use any Domestic case it will be the Sy/ty though..Just because of the power distribution and Availability ..

I like the idea of the SMALL SMALL size and low clearence of the Skyline plus I was thinking Id be the simplest still because i would use Everything for simplicity i would have to do Custom cv's shafts and retrofit alot of stuff.. Id like to Be in the area of 70/30 idealy ..

I have also looked into getting a wrecked trailblazer SS and using the drive train out of that and narrowing the front axle shafts..

One cool thin i was thinking about is the toyota fj cruiser diff i have Is electronic So i could run a sy/ty case because they are on the same side And wire the Motor on the diff to dissengage So i can run 2wd also ...Cool thing is there are a decent amount of gear ratio's available for toyota stuff Also...

Im moving Right now so my minds a little Booggled...

I am gonna slap an engine in it or sure and roll it That way till winter.. When it be in the garage anyways then ill get more serious..

Keep the Ideas flowing guys i appriciate everyone's interest

[Memphis]

In Europe you could get it in awd

[tyoneal]

That sounds like a nightmare in ECU integration... But sounds AWESOME from a performance standpoint.

===============================
Check out the "Top Gear" Special on the Top End Evo. It kicks a Lambos Ass.

Ty

[79PonchoUK]

In Europe you could get it in awd

Yeah, it was an XR4x4 the running gear isn't strong enough for a muscle car though IMO.

It used the MT75 box and a standard sierra diff...neither of which are known for their strength. I think you'd be forever changing transmissions.


They running gear is basically the same as an escort cosworth....albeit with the YB 4 cyl instead of the cologne v6 (or dohc 8v).

They do run some decent power with the escort cosworths, but they're laggy and the car is a little bit lighter than a muscle car....


In fact, it's probably worth exploring as an option. A sierra XR4x4 can be had here for around $1000 so if you get the parts from a breakers they won't cost a fortune...

They're a conventional setup anyway...transfer case on the end of the longtiudinal gearbox - diff in the sump. You might be able to uprate the transmission to cope with the power and use the bigger ford diffs you have over there...from the thunderbird I think?.