Best Rear Suspension For Road Racing

[MrQuick]

A very good example of a great driver in a (well balanced) good car.

Mary, were they talking about the right hander at the end of the long switchback? I have a theory about that bump then turn. That coinsides with you and David doing well in that turn.



that last part is funny
Vince

[Gitter Dun]

Hi Gaetano, et al ...

Yes, my car has the GW CAT5's out back and Hotchkis in front. Recently, I was able to fit a little bit wider rear tire in the back and feel the car's well balanced and as good as it will get with what I've got now.

It's a huge win for autocrossing and does very well at track days. Dave drove Steve's "Penny" car at a track day and had problems with brakes and traction during the bumpy areas. He rode with me and those parts of the track that played havoc with Steve's Camaro never were felt by mine. At the recent Run to the Coast event, I ended up fourth overall for the track portion and this was with the smaller width tires. IIRC, I was about four seconds back from the fastest car (Dave drove the One-Lap Camaro quite spiritedly that day) and .800 behind the overall winner, Brian Finch. The Finch Camaro is very well-driven and has more money in the underpinnings than I do in my entire car. Having a bigger footprint can only help bring the times down and as I'm at least 150+ hp and the same in torque behind the fast guys, the only way I can get close to their times is with handling. Last RWHP/T readings for my car were 361/395 and this is pretty pathetic against the LS-equipped Pro-Touring monsters that are the norm for this fun.

There was a section of the RTTC course at El Toro that really showed where my car shined and the track organizers did section timing in various spots. Todd Gartshore and a couple other guys told me at dinner that the track timing guys got a faster time for my car in this section than any other car that ran that day. This included a Porsche Carrera GT that did some exhibition runs during the lunch break. This section??? It was the only real handling section for the course. I thought that was pretty cool and gave my stock front sub and rear leaf spring car a good pat for that one!!

There's pro's and con's to each type of suspension system (stock front sub vs replacement sub vs links vs coil overs vs leafs). A three-four link rear and coil overs will allow a larger wheel/tire fitment and this is also true for an aftermarket front sub. The adjustability and availability of different rate springs is also a huge benefit. With the stock coils/rear leafs, it limits you there but I haven't told my car this and hope it never figures it out ... LOL.

There are some autocrosses being held at Mather in the Sacramento area and this is close to you. If you still want me to have a turn behind the wheel, I'm willing as that will help you work on developing the car. The Global West parts are excellent and they work great as an entire system. I'll also bring my car up and we can have some fun. Don't know if you're coming to Pleasanton the first weekend in June but there's an autocross as part of the show. I'll be there for that ...

The body bushing bolts can loosen and what you'll feel and hear is a snapping noise during turns. The center and rear bolts were slightly loose and when retorqued, eliminated the noise. I would check the instructions to see if they recommend the use of Loctite as you don't want to risk damaging the captive nuts inside if you ever to have to remove the bushings (subframe replacement, collision repairs ...). Just periodically give 'em a check and you'll be fine.

And I promise to not cuss that much.

Cheers,
Mary Pozzi

Thank You Mary, that was a very helpfull insite and I appreciate you offering to drive my car. I think I heard you say(I mean read in a thread) that you would be in San Jose the 29. My car should be done by then and I'd like to meet you there, Mather will be great also being only 20 minutes away.

And know worries, cussing is inherent on us Italians, LOL.

[Vegas69]

Mary, I'm not doubting your car but you are proving my point. The driver is the most important variable. You can make a leaf spring car handle great. It's spring rates and shocks. It's the street manners that are the biggest difference in a coil over set up. You and David have more experience than the field combined. Hell, it was my second road race, first 0-100-0(no drag race experience), and my 10th autocross, maybe. I'd love to see what you could of done in my car at El Toro. I ran 3rd in the road race and 1st in the baer speed stop challenge cheating with R888's. I can only imagine what you could do with my car.

[srh3trinity]

This is an interesting discussion and I have thought about the fact that the driver is an extremely important variable in how well a car performs. I wakeboard and early on, I thought that if I bought a newer/better wakeboard every year that I would be able to progress. I always thought that the wakeboard was limiting my progress to an extent. I learned in time that I really stalled out as my problem was more sloppy technique. This holds true for other hobbies too. When I was 14 or 15 and picked up the guitar, I thought a newer guitar would help me to play better, this is not always the case so long as you are starting with adequate equipment.

There does come a point where you have invested the seat time to buy the right gear. The equipment you have will limit you at some point. I am trying to be concious of this as I work towards putting together a PT project in the not to distant future. I plan on making smart updates that will work well together and provide me with a nice base platform to learn to drive with and one that I can build on. The motor swap will likely be the last thing as all I will need initially is enough power for me to learn with, but not too much that I use the power as an excuse to be sloppy and disregard the basics.

Seeing the results Mary gets from a properly setup car without all of the high dollar parts makes me evaluate wants vs. needs. Sorry for the deviation from the OP, I don't have much to add in regards to the best setup for your car. I just thought the side discussion going on was interesting.

[Gitter Dun]

Mary, I'm not doubting your car but you are proving my point. The driver is the most important variable. You can make a leaf spring car handle great. It's spring rates and shocks. It's the street manners that are the biggest difference in a coil over set up. You and David have more experience than the field combined. Hell, it was my second road race, first 0-100-0(no drag race experience), and my 10th autocross, maybe. I'd love to see what you could of done in my car at El Toro. I ran 3rd in the road race and 1st in the baer speed stop challenge cheating with R888's. I can only imagine what you could do with my car.

Good point Toddd, I am old school, and hard headed, and that is exactly what I wanted to hear. My car has been fast with leaf springs and the old school in me does not want to change them out.

On the contrary I am inherently very competitive which makes me want to seek out the best and will need some hard evidence and convincing that 3 and 4 link are the way to go.

[Gitter Dun]

Todd, this is the photo shot of me pulling the front wheel up off the ground

[mpozzi]

Mary, were they talking about the right hander at the end of the long switchback? I have a theory about that bump then turn. That coinsides with you and David doing well in that turn.

Vince

It was the section at the front before the flagman (last hard left hander followed by a quick right onto the sweepers leading back to where you started on the course).

I know what you mean about the particular bump you mentioned and after I drove it Friday, I kept pretty quiet about how I was going to take the end of that corner on my official timed laps. There were several people that I talked with but not many ... I made some good sacrifices here that paid off elsewhere.

Cheers,
Mary Pozzi

[mpozzi]

Mary, I'm not doubting your car but you are proving my point. The driver is the most important variable. You can make a leaf spring car handle great. It's spring rates and shocks. It's the street manners that are the biggest difference in a coil over set up. You and David have more experience than the field combined. Hell, it was my second road race, first 0-100-0(no drag race experience), and my 10th autocross, maybe. I'd love to see what you could of done in my car at El Toro. I ran 3rd in the road race and 1st in the baer speed stop challenge cheating with R888's. I can only imagine what you could do with my car.

Todd,

I watched your car and you did great!!!

My Camaro and I know each other pretty well and it's set up well for it's job. At speed, I can get the car positioned at the points where I need it to be at and know what it's going to do when it gets there. That's the predictable and confirmed part, and really affects overall compliance.

Agree as well with how nice a "linked" rear suspension works on the street as the CAT5's can jar my fillings out. It's a trade off but one I'll sacrifice for handling and my checkbook. Now if I ever built another car ... hmmm.

Note to self ... must play LOTTO!!

Cheers,
Mary Pozzi

[mpozzi]

Todd, this is the photo shot of me pulling the front wheel up off the ground

Needs more rear bar ...

Let me come up to Mather as they run some pretty cool courses there. The AAS event at Great America in Santa Clara will have some elevation changes and the lot size is pretty small. I don't like to run there as it's hard on the suspension and my car is pretty banged up underneath as it is. The headers are almost worn through on three pipes ... LOL. One more good whap and that sucker will be loud.

Mary Pozzi

Cheers,
Mary Pozzi

[MrQuick]

It was the section at the front before the flagman (last hard left hander followed by a quick right onto the sweepers leading back to where you started on the course).

I know what you mean about the particular bump you mentioned and after I drove it Friday, I kept pretty quiet about how I was going to take the end of that corner on my official timed laps. There were several people that I talked with but not many ... I made some good sacrifices here that paid off elsewhere.

Cheers,
Mary Pozzi

the hairpin 180 or the left hander before the timer stop?

Vince

[zbugger]

Vince, are you talking the autocross or the roadcourse? There was a HUGE bump on the road course that you had to swing really wide for and cut a little harder than you'd think you would have to so you could exit hard without really jarring the car. I think I know the spot Mary is talking about though. From where the cars started it would be considered the back of the track though.

[Gitter Dun]

Needs more rear bar ...

Let me come up to Mather as they run some pretty cool courses there. The AAS event at Great America in Santa Clara will have some elevation changes and the lot size is pretty small. I don't like to run there as it's hard on the suspension and my car is pretty banged up underneath as it is. The headers are almost worn through on three pipes ... LOL. One more good whap and that sucker will be loud.

Mary Pozzi

Cheers,
Mary Pozzi

Rear bar has been added, Mather sounds good. Motor should be delivered by the 18th, probly need a day to get her runnin, then off to get exhaust installed, probly the 19th, May 28th and June 5th and 6th I'll be at Buttonwillow and then June 25th 26th I'm doing the Spectre341Challenge, all other days open to play as far as I know. I'll check SCCA schedule and see whats next.

[Steve Chryssos]

....
The only way I am going to get proof of whats the best is starting with what I have and running up against other cars with different setups.
......

If it is proof that you want go to the main search at the top of the forum (not this section). Search the term "event results". The proof is right there. Do a little homework. Results are present for events dating back to 2006. With a little effort, you will see what brands frequently win and place, what brands don't, and what brands never even show up.

[Gitter Dun]

If it is proof that you want go to the main search at the top of the forum (not this section). Search the term "event results". The proof is right there. Do a little homework. Results are present for events dating back to 2006. With a little effort, you will see what brands frequently win and place, what brands don't, and what brands never even show up.

Thanks Steve, That definitely sounds like the way to go, checking now.