Getting closer........

[Jim Nilsen]

Here's a pic of the car in action.

[Bow Tie 67]

Nice pic Jim

Hey take some pics of the post mortum and post them up, I think it will help with closure.

[Jim Nilsen]

here you go Matt, the carnage.

I didn't think the pan took it that hard but damn it is a mess. it's nothing I can't fix but it sure will take a patch instead of a hammer back and weld moment.

The number one spark plug electrode was bent but no damage to the piston. On the other side it was the number 2 piston that went to lunch and it slightly bent the intake just like I thought when the rocker was just a bit loose,now I know why.

I can get the valve fixed if I use the heads and it won't take much to do it. The block is really gone on the number 2 piston.

The thing that is weird is that there was water in the number 3 piston hole? How or why it was there is a mystery to me. It was about 2 or 3 oz. at most but it was there.

[Denvervet]

ouch...poor guy. I feel for you. I know you were chasing EFI issues and maybe what caused this was at least partially what your gremlin was. Good luck man. Probably a new block in order....unless you super check/magnaflux that one. Does it look your new cam is ok?

[Jim Nilsen]

ouch...poor guy. I feel for you. I know you were chasing EFI issues and maybe what caused this was at least partially what your gremlin was. Good luck man. Probably a new block in order....unless you super check/magnaflux that one. Does it look your new cam is ok?

It was the fuel supply shortage that took it out, the pickup needs to be moved and the return line needs to be feeding it too. I know what to do to fix it and it will take a day to fix it for sure maybe 2.

The block cylinder wall is broken to heckola. The number 2 valve got bent slightly but not bad enought to ruin the seat hopefully, a new valve and reseat should do it if I don't go to better heads. Better heads will make up for the 8:1 compression vs 9:1 I would think. I know I can get more out of the program for sure.

I just don't know if I can get it done in time? I think I can I think I can.

I will feel a lot better when it is out of the car and out of sight. That will take another day of work from what I know about tearing the car apart. I have had all of this stuf in and out so many times I think I can do it in my sleep.

I really didn't need this to happen when I was ready to show it at the optima event more complete.

Take a look at the pics and copy them if you want them because I won't leave them where I can see them for long. It is a bad memory I won't ever forget and I don't need pics to remind me.

[GregWeld]

Wonder if it didn't hydraulic... is there water in the oil? The head gasket looks "funny" between the cylinders... hard to tell from the pictures.

[Jim Nilsen]

Wonder if it didn't hydraulic... is there water in the oil? The head gasket looks "funny" between the cylinders... hard to tell from the pictures.

I know for a fact it was the lack of fuel that did it. I saw the fuel pressure go to 10lb and he didn't back off and I should have screamed so loud he would have heard me without the radio we had. He thought I was having surge problems because he didn't listen to what I was telling him on saturday. It is my fault for not asking him if he understaood the problem and make it perfectly clear what he was to look for. My bad. I rarely keep my mouth shut but several times in my life I think people understood and they were smart enough to know better and I was wrong ,totally expensive and life changing event wrong. I learned a lesson to drill people from now on to make sure they are clearly understanding and repeat it to me. You can bet your life that I will never keep my mouth shut again.

I spent the money on the Racepak and the fuel pressure gauge to make sure I knew what was going on. I have so much data requisitioning on this car that if I had it all recording I could have shown you what rpm and how long it was going without fuel and the wideband would have recorded the A/F ratio at the moment. It is something that there is no 2nd guessing as to what caused it.

It is weird that there was a bit of water in the number 3 cylinder but it could have just gotten there from somewhere else when I lifted the head, as I said it was not much and it could have just fallen in the hole when I lifted it up because the left side came up and tilted that way. I think if it would have hydrolocked itself there would have been some carbon removal on the piston.

It is as if it was destiny for the engine and the car and if it is my destiny then I guess I am not listening to what is going on and it will be the end of me and life as I know it. Learning experinces like this change you and hopefully it is changing me for the better.

I keep winning the fight to get it to the the car it should be but I am getting tired and weary from it. I am also trying not to get angry because it doesn't do any good but maybe I should be a bit angry when someone told me they wouldn't hurt my car and then they beat on it like it was running perfect when they knew it wasn't. There I go again dwelling on it and being negative but if you had heard the words about how I wasn't driving like i was supposed to be driving when I was protecting my investment instead of worrying about becoming Mario Andretti in a day you might understand that it may be the instructors karma to learn something and I am holding back teaching him what he needs to keep myself from looking like a bad guy. I will be sorting it out for awhile before I get over it but I do know exactly what caused it! my BAD all around and I take all the blame but accountability still goes with the driver who is not paying attention to the vitals just like running out of oil because you didn't check it.

I learned the most valuable lesson and that is to never let someone drive you car when it is having a problem and never drive someones car that is having a problem.

Thanks for the help Greg as I need all the eyes and ears I can get to help me get through this.

[GregWeld]

Well -- I feel for ya Jim... but at the same time -- if you track your car or drive it hard - STUFF HAPPENS... and it will always happen no matter how hard you prepare for it.

Doesn't probably matter that you weren't driving it.

I have had the dyno operators ask me about what RPM I want to take a motor to... I tell them the number... never fear... the guy next to you will say "what if he blows it up"? My response is - then it was going to blow up anyway - regardless of whether it was on the dyno or in the car and I've got her sideways in 2nd gear.... Saves me a tow job if she blows on the dyno. LOL

The important thing to me - when this stuff happens - is what I've learned so I might POSSIBLY avoid that the second time (or 3rd) around. The current motor (now out) in my Nomad is on it's 2nd REBUILD... so Original motor - rebuilt - now rebuilt again. I drive the snot out of it - it's ragged to start with. Guess what? This time around I'm DE RAGGING it a bit... Maybe it will last a bit longer. DOH! LOL

[Jim Nilsen]

Well -- I feel for ya Jim... but at the same time -- if you track your car or drive it hard - STUFF HAPPENS... and it will always happen no matter how hard you prepare for it.

Doesn't probably matter that you weren't driving it.

I have had the dyno operators ask me about what RPM I want to take a motor to... I tell them the number... never fear... the guy next to you will say "what if he blows it up"? My response is - then it was going to blow up anyway - regardless of whether it was on the dyno or in the car and I've got her sideways in 2nd gear.... Saves me a tow job if she blows on the dyno. LOL

The important thing to me - when this stuff happens - is what I've learned so I might POSSIBLY avoid that the second time (or 3rd) around. The current motor (now out) in my Nomad is on it's 2nd REBUILD... so Original motor - rebuilt - now rebuilt again. I drive the snot out of it - it's ragged to start with. Guess what? This time around I'm DE RAGGING it a bit... Maybe it will last a bit longer. DOH! LOL

You are absolutely right that it could have happened to me.

I was having a moment in my last post. Just going over all of the broken pieces and seeing them ,inspecting them and then throwing them away. Then I saw the post and got involved in the moment it happened. Being there when it happens gives the clues as to what caused it to happen and that moment coming around from the carousel into Canada corner faster than you can imagine ( I can imagine what fast is because I have driven with Dave Pozzi in Bad Penny), and then you rocket out of it like a slingshot with the g force still going and all of a sudden you look over and the speedometer is reading 125mph and the fuel pressure is 10lb. and then you hear a noise that isn't right and the the car stumbles and is never the same after but it made it another lap like it wanted to run hard still. The noise seemed like it went away and then you could hear it when we slowed down. It was probably the fastest lap at Road America in my car I will ever make unless I go there a lot more than I anticipate. If I had paid to get a ride around a track with a pro in a racecar it would probably cost me as much and it wouldn't have been the same.

I now know that I can build a car that handles and rides really good and was able to keep up with cars in its class. The thing I am thankful about the most is that I can do almost all of the work and not have to pay someone.

I will look back at how all this went down and hopefully be able to smile from ear to ear because I can wear a T shirt that say's

I blew up my engine at Road America going 125mph
What did you do last weekend !!!!

[Bow Tie 67]

I will look back at how all this went down and hopefully be able to smile from ear to ear because I can wear a T shirt that say's

I blew up my engine at Road America going 125mph
What did you do last weekend !!!!

Now your talking, I want to see that shirt by the Motorstate Challenge.

[HILROD]

From the pictures it looks like a rod let go. Low fuel pressure shouldn't ever do that. It might go lean, burn a piston or plug, but I've never seen it do anything like that to a non forced induction motor. One motor I saw did just that but the cause was ever so slight piston to head contact. Good luck.

[Bow Tie 67]

From the pictures it looks like a rod let go. Low fuel pressure shouldn't ever do that. It might go lean, burn a piston or plug, but I've never seen it do anything like that to a non forced induction motor. One motor I saw did just that but the cause was ever so slight piston to head contact. Good luck.

Frank, I was thinking the same thing. Now as far as lean causing it, when she went lean, piston expanded slightly, and contact. Or the gasket gave from hot lean mixture and hydro-lock. No matter what, bad Ju-Ju hes on the road to a much better experience than this one gave him.

[Jim Nilsen]

Frank, I was thinking the same thing. Now as far as lean causing it, when she went lean, piston expanded slightly, and contact. Or the gasket gave from hot lean mixture and hydro-lock. No matter what, bad Ju-Ju hes on the road to a much better experience than this one gave him.

The outside skirt of the broken piston has marks around it. The number one spark plug electrode was bent but no other marks. The pistons expanding and hitting the head could have done it and the rest was all down hill from there. I think we can rule out hydrolock becuase the carbon build up is still in tact and looks like all the other pistons.

I am going to leave it at " I caused it because I bought parts that were all a guess as to what they were and it was lucky it all worked for as long as it did and the parts that are left are the most important ones to get back to where I was and pick up from there.

I have been through enough to know that the components I have to put on the assembly I am looking at getting will give me what I would have wanted to do before the LS engines took over.

I can only think going from 160cc to 200cc runners it will wake it up just a bit more.

I still can't believe how much power I was making with what I had. It was sweet while it lasted and I know it will be better if I do it right. Going back to used or unknown parts has been my curse so far and I need to let that thinking go.

I am oh so glad that I went and took Matt for a ride so there was at least one member here than can attest to what it was like and will know if it is better when it gets back on the road. The car is what it is still and the engine is still just a component. The car is awesome even without an engine so I should be glad for that,right!!!

[Jim Nilsen]

I have a plan that I just commited to with a 350,9:1 comp, all american made parts that are made to last, these are parts that he uses all the time and has few issues. I know the builder is a good shop and he is also the only one that is willing to do what is needed to use all of the good parts from the blown engine and make sure it is all good to go. He is also the only one I have talked to that is willing to put off a few customers to get it done in time. He is booked up like everyone right now but fortunately he has restoration customers ahead of me that will give me their space.

Now I can focus on the fuel supply and if I get a little help I can get it back together soon enough. I hope it doesn't take a day to do the bellhousing alignment to the new block like it did the last time.

Now to just get it all out and room for the new!!

I am glad I have had practice taking this all in and out like Steve with Bad Penny. You guy's who have it all put in once and never take it back out have it lucky, or do you? LOL.

[Payton King]

Assuming you are running iron heads that should be just fine. gonna make more power as well.

Flat top piston w/ 64cc chamber heads will yeild the 10:1.

Glad you are heading in the right direction!

[Jim Nilsen]

[QUOTE=Payton King;662273]Assuming you are running iron heads that should be just fine. gonna make more power as well.

Flat top piston w/ 64cc chamber heads will yeild the 10:1.

Glad you are heading in the right direction![/QUOTE


Hi Payton, I probably can if I ask him to. The cam specs don't really say the best compression to use but when I talked to comp cams they said 9:1 was good. I should call them and ask. I think the 10:1 compression pistons are probably on his shelf. I do like the power I had and I should get more with the heads. The way fuel is going these days I like the idea of 9:1 so I can get buy with less octane if needed. Do you get by with 91 octane? We have 93 now around our area but here are a few places all you get is 91.

I was debating going with aluminum heads to save 40 lb up front. There are pluses and minuses with them. I will more than likely get the iron heads as fate has them on the shelf ready to go and the aluminum heads may not work with the springs because there is no shoulder in the base to keep the springs in place.

The ultimate details are not written in steel yet.The original plan was for iron heads.

I am feeling better about the move forward, it took a lot of figuring out how to swing it. The car is an entity of it's own, I figured that out years ago and yet sometimes I think I can control it's destiny. The intent for this car is to have fun and not have to worry about it too much unless you get crazy stupid. It is capable chassis wise to go very far as it is just at factory stock level now,LOL.

I am all ears as to what heads are best, the debate has been fun to hear for decades. They look so cool unless you paint them black to be smart and get rid of the heat even faster, I like slealth looking cars with form over function design.

As I progress the vision of what I always wanted is coming together. It may be fate that I didn't lunch the expensive engine 1st and then go to a cheap one. It would have been a lot harder to take it I had a bunch of $$$ in it but I really didn't so the learning curve was less expensive if you look at it for what it really is.

This car can go as far as your driving skills and pocketbook can afford to reach the level you want to drive at and if the weekend I just had is any resemblance to what everyone goes thru, WOW !
It takes more determination than the average guy can muster.

Thanks for shaking my thoughts and asking about why not 10:1 ?

I am so going to try and make RTTH even if I can just show up for the ride and drive and spectate and 1st on the list to see how you and Deadcat are doing. It is more fun than anything just being there and getting a ride is always fun! You can then get your chance to drive the Cormaro see how she drives? It's as fun fun as throwing a Deadcat to find it.lol.

Take care.

[Jim Nilsen]

Just got off the phone with the engine builder and the engine will be 9:1 comp. I could go 10:1 but the fact is how long can we all get gas that is as good as it is or it could be like the gas station at Road America that was running out of 93 octane and I might have had to fill it with 89. It will also be a bit more durable with 9:1.

He does however think that the power will be the same with the aluminum heads and i would lose 40 lb. He still has to check to see if the springs will work with the heads. 1st. So fate will decide iron or aluminum. 40 lb less would really make a difference.

So far I am still on schedule to make it and feel confident about how it will go. I have so many things that I was worrying about and were untried that the 1st time out was a big guess as to what was good or not. I know what I have to concentrate on that will help prepare me for more fun.

I will be prepared to go to Gingerman and if I don't get up there next weekend I might go to the midwest challenge instead and that will give me a month to get it all ready.

[wmhjr]

Jim, you and your builder are probably well beyond this and have been very methodical. I just thought I'd mention one thing based on what you wrote.

IMHO Aluminum heads need more compression to generate heat to make power as compared to cast iron heads. I'm running 11:1 compression and my motor is pretty happy with 89 octane. I'll run 93 (and not Sunoco street 93) but I'm comfortatle with it drinking 89 should that be necessary. We spent a good bit of time deciding what the chamber sizes would be, and what compression we wanted with these specific heads and finally decided on an 11:1 Alum head combo, zero decked, with the Ross pistons. Surprisingly I could have probably added in some compression if I wanted. Just make sure that with 9:1 compression and those heads, you'll have enough heat in the heads to make power. It's always easier to drop compression than to add it

But like I said, you're probably way ahead of me.

[John Wright]

I was gonna say earlier that 9.7:1-10:1 shouldn't give you any detonation problems as long as your timing tables stay reasonable. My latest TPI motor is just a hair over 9.7:1 with flat top forged TRW slugs.

[Jim Nilsen]

The engine I blew had 9:1 iron heads and made more power than I ever expected it to. The new engine with heads that flow 20% more will wake it up no matter what the compression. I truly feel comfortable with the lower power and know some would wonder WTF. When you have more power you have more problems and I don't need them.

The car as it was had a very linier feel to it and predictability that comes with less power. I feel I can go with a procharger and light boost with 9:1 or I can always shave the heads for more compression. The pistons will be set up to shave the heads if I ever want to.

The springs being able to go into the aluminum heads is the deciding factor and I am betting that they won't work? Who knows? I do know that the builder thinks the way I do about the whole big picture of what the plan for the car is and knows what to give me now so that there are less growing pains later. The mill in my garage can cut them in a weekend if I ever decide to have more compression. I was also told that the actual compression will be a bit higher than 9:1 and in most cases the components he uses get 9.22:1 at minimum.

I don't really know how much it will make a difference but the DCC controller for my cooling system is capable of holding the temp +- 2 degrees and I can vary the temp to what I want it to be. I could in theory bump up the temp of the engine until it has more heat in the heads. Don't know how much I could gain that way but it is a possiblility?

After the weekend I just had I can tell you that I am looking for durability more than tons of power. When you are screaming around the track and you run out of oil or fuel because of the g forces you will find that the power is in the ability to stay alive not out run everyone with power.

I can assure anyone that the gears I have could make you giggle with a 250hp engine and it would stay alive longer too, uhm maybe. LOL.

If it wouldn't have taken me all summer to put in an LS motor I would have. tHe cost would have been comparable for the engine but the swap for everything else would add so much time and $$$ that it would have taken away from the summer of FUN for me.

I learned one big thing, the engine is just a component and not the whole car, they can and will get replaced,modified and just tired or you are not trying to have more FUN.