65/66 Mustang Wheel Size Question

[Is1BadFord]

Hey there,

Just wanted to check with all the early Mustangers on the board to see what the max size front rim and tire they've seen on a 65/66 without flares. I've never built one of these earlier cars, and until now my experience is limited to 67's to be honest.

I've read around a little bit, and I've seen a LOT of 17x8 with 245/45/17 tires. But has anyone seen 17x9, with 275/40/17? I've got a bit of room to play with track width in the front (could narrow it a bit if necessary, as my mounting point for the A-Arms hasn't been determined yet, and an inch either way would be easy enough to do), but I've also heard that keeping the track the same, if not wider, is worth better than an inch more tire as far as performance goes. I doubt this car will ever see a road course (I can hope it will, but it's not likely), however I'd like for it to perform as if it was born for it. I don't believe in form over function...in my opinion, wide tires are for traction...looking good is a byproduct =).

Anyhow, just wanted to toss this around a little before I ordered anything, I've seen some nice package deals for less than 1000$ on 17x10.5, and 17x9 including Sumitomo HTRZ tires. I know they're not the best, but to be honest, the first few sets of tires will likely go pretty quickly, and I'm wanting to save the sticky, expensive ones for once the 'new' has wore off lol.

Thanks in advance!
Cris
http://www.mustang1.vze.com/

[streetrod77]

I have only seen 17x8's on the front. I have a Comet & I run 17x8's with 225/45 but going to 245/40's later. It has the same setup as Mustangs.

[HHStang]

Do a search on this at Stangnet.com

[Z06killinSBF]

17x9's WILL NOT FIT. The upper a-arm is in the way. I fit 18x8.5's on the front of mine and had a 1/2" to play and more room if I took a grinder to the arm. On the rear, All I've been able to fit is a 255 tire. You can probably fit a 9-10" wheel with a smaller tire. Here is how it looks.

[4MuscleMachines]

I agree, after many 65-66 Stangs, I could only fit 235's on the front of a Mustang without any cutting. On the rear only 255's, some can fit 275's on the rear but only because their car is not dropped or is higher than stock.

[Is1BadFord]

Thanks for the quick responses!


I'm not sure where the clearance issue is on the upper control arm (not that I don't believe you!)...but the control arm I'm intending to use is totally different from stock. The coilover still goes through the upper arm and mounts to the lower arm near the spindle, but the upper arm is very triangular, let me give you a link.

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/xq/asp...qx/Product.htm

Not sure if this would solve the issue? Also, the shock tower will be totally gone, the engine compartment down bar is actually part of the structural mounting for the upper control arm. Two bars run down from the bar to the front subframe, and the control arm bolts to those in the 'stock' locations...well 1 3/4" lower than stock. This places the upper control arm mounting point exactly at the stock location (other than the lowering of course), yet deletes the shock tower. Upper control arm size is totally adjustable, they sell them in many sizes, that's part of what I meant by track width being adjustable. Also, the actual mounting point ON the frame can be modified slightly by moving the engine bar slightly inboard or outboard during the building process (I know this isn't the best solution, but could a combination of the two possibly allow a 9" rim with a nicely sized tire?). Traction is nice, and wide rubber all the way around will of course help that, not to mention the nice look, but I want to make sure I'm not sacrificing any stability or giving up more than I'm gaining with it.

As a sort of disclaimer... =). I'd like to say that we use these suspension setups on 'Dirt Late Models'. I'm sure many of you are familiar with these kinds of race cars, and the abuse they take on the track. 750hp+, 12-14" wide tires all the way around, and 120mph in a 2300lb car going into a turn sideways on VERY sticky, rough clay is a pretty intense stress test. My car should be around this weight range, if not a bit lighter (I hope). We've built and setup many of them, for these cars, only...we never had to worry about fenders lol, nor any other clearance related issues. This will also be the first one we've setup for the street, so we're looking for a bit of input before we take on the modification. All in all it's very like the TCP setup, with only the coilover mounting point changed (it will be mounted to the engine down bar as well).

Anyhow, I've attached two pictures, the color one is almost identical to what I'll be running, and surprisingly similar to a stock Ford setup, other than the coilover. The black and white one is the same setup, except that the upper control arm mounts almost directly to the frame, which isn't acceptable for my setup. I'll try to get pictures of our car tomorrow. For those guys with 65-66 Mustangs, if you can imagine this setup attached to a Mustang subframe, utilizing the stock drum spindle, then possibly guess at the clearance issues, that would be great! If not, that's ok too lol, I just didn't want to have to buy the 9" setup to 'find out' if it would fit with the customized suspension.

Cris
http://www.mustang1.vze.com/

PS
Thanks for bearing with the second novel I've penned since joining the site! Too bad it's only my third post! And Z06KillinSBF, your car looks great!
C

[Is1BadFord]

Here's a couple pictures of our Late Model front suspension to further illustrate what I meant.



As you can see, it's a pretty simple setup, the bar running out the top of the picture would be the 'engine down bar' I mentioned, then the control arm would mount just as it does in this picture (on either side of the two mounting bars, on mine it would likely mount to the front, not the back like it does here). You can also see how the adjustable coilover is mounted upside down to the same engine down bar, and to the lower control arm, which is a single tube, not unlike a Ford...not an A Arm.


A kind of cool picture of the size tires we run on these. Pressure's a relatively low 8lbs on the left front, with 10lbs on the right front on this car. This car on a half mile long track is capable of 130-135mph going into the turns. This setup takes a beating.


Another view from the front. You can see the steering arm, and the strut rod intersection parallel to the bottom of the picture. This setup is identical to a Mustang, other than the front steer (and rack), which is totally adaptable to a rear steer. This is the exact steering system I'll be using, only rear steer.


Another picture of the rack, with a closeup of the Control Arm mount. Mine will be mounted on the close side of the bar you see, and should be about the stock length (+ or - a bit, depending on what I learn here about if it will affect wheel fitment, and if it's worth it).


Rack (and dirt from the race Saturday, I was lazy Sunday and didn't wash it right away lol).


Dual Master Cylinder, and Hydro clutch setup. In first gear, you push the clutch IN TO GO lol. Then when you get on the track, you let off the clutch and jerk it into direct drive. We only have one race gear. I'll be using an adapted system like this for the Mustang, but with a more conventional method of operating it =p.


Cool picture of the motor and headers. They're Dynatech coated headers, and are stepped in three places. This motor makes 767hp at 7600 rpm and we spin it to about 8500rpm. It's a 427 SBC, Dart Block, with seriously worked Brodix 10 heads. We're putting together a Rodeck Aluminum 427 as well right now, which will use worked Brodix Buick 15dgr heads, and should turn to about 9000rpm.

Anyhow, sorry for getting carried away with the pictures lol. Thought you guys might be interested, and some of it actually applies to my question!

Cris
http://www.mustang1.vze.com/

[fast Ed]

Pretty good info for sizes to use with stock style suspension on this chart: http://www.dodgestang.com/Tire%20Fit...ide%2065-6.pdf FWIW.


cheers
Ed N.

[Is1BadFord]

Thanks Ed!

I've actually seen that before. They really don't go any wider than 8" though =/. Appreciate the response though =)

[fast Ed]

IMO, 9" on the front of a 65-66 Mustang would require a narrowing of the track width, which you mentioned as a possibility, or widened fenders. I was looking at trying to max. out the front of my 68 Cougar, and even with the slightly wider 67 - up sheetmetal, I doubt that a 9" wheel would go without major mods. I might try to squeeze some 8-1/2" on there however.

cheers
Ed N.

[Is1BadFord]

Yeah, I'm coming to the same conclusion. And due to the fact that I'm not qualified in any way shape or form to predict the effects of narrowing the track an inch on either side, I think I'm just going to stick to the 8" wheel w/245/45/17's. I just don't know whether the 1" wider wheel would make up for losing 1" of track width. Or if it would even make a difference. Narrowing the track would likely make the wheels rub on the insides during turns anyhow lol.

Thanks for all your replies, much appreciated!

[MBD]

I think I'm just going to stick to the 8" wheel w/245/45/17's.

I've always wondered if a 9 inch rim with a 235 would fit. I know some will say that the rim is too wide for a 235, but the ricers are putting 8 inchers on 215s and 205s on 7s all day long.

[fast Ed]

I just don't know whether the 1" wider wheel would make up for losing 1" of track width. Or if it would even make a difference.

I'd take 1" narrower wheels over less track width in just about any case. 245-45-17 fits comfortably on an 8" wheel for the street. How is that tire diameter for your car? Most of the 65-66 Mustangs I've seen on 17" have used 225-45, 235-45, or sometimes 245-40-17 ... guess it would partially depend on your ride height. 67-up guys seem to go with the 245-45-17 on the front with no problem.

I've always wondered if a 9 inch rim with a 235 would fit.

The Ford GT (the mid-engine car, not the Mustang) has 235-45-18 on 9" wheels for the front. So it will go, but I'd say that's pretty much maximum rim width for that tire size. I used to run 245-50-16 Bridgestone R-compound RE71 rubber on 9.5" wheels on my 87 Mustang track car.

cheers
Ed N.

[Is1BadFord]

I'm not sure how the width will work on my car yet =/. Ride height will likely be pretty relatively low. I may have to run small flares. As small as I can get away with lol. Some flares look almost factory, those are the only ones I'd accept. But being as how the whole car's basically made from fiberglass, well, flares wouldn't be too difficult.

By the way, love the cougar! About 10yrs ago I had a 1967 XR-7 GT. It was an S-Code car, but it came with no drivetrain whatsoever. Saved it from the junkyard, and switched over all the running gear out of my plain jane 1970 cougar (that my lil brother had shot all the windows out of with his bb gun), including the 351c 2v and FMX trans lol. We built the motor a bit, and surprisingly, the thing ran like mad =). I cringe when I think of the tire sizes though...295/50/15, and 225/60/14 if I recall lol, on Indy style slotted mags. The rears stuck out about 2 inches on each side!

I've had nicer, faster Mustangs, but that by far was the coolest car I've ever owned!

[ballajb]

I just ordered the Boss 338 rims in 18x8 for my 1964 1/2 mustang. What size tires should i go with that will not cause me any problems?

[fordsbyjay]

For those that are curious as to why you can only fit an 8" wheel in the front below is a picture of the upper bj clearance. These are 17x8 Ford cobra R wheels on my 64 Falcon. There is maybe 3/8" clearance.

[fordsbyjay]

I just ordered the Boss 338 rims in 18x8 for my 1964 1/2 mustang. What size tires should i go with that will not cause me any problems?

The 245 is the largest I have seen with no problems.

[Z06killinSBF]

BossHoss, thats a REALLY old picture and those wheels were just test fit. I never used them, the car is actually jacked up in the picture. But, my suspension set up in 620's 3/4 coil cut out, Shelby drop, 4-1/2 leaf reverse eye leafs with Del-A-Lum bushings, Comp sub frame connectors, Suspension Tech swaybars, Granada brakes. I currently have 17x8 Bullitts with 235/45 17's all the way around.