too far gone

[sniper]

If that's the case for a lot of budget builders I suggest not buying a car at all!

Step back and start saving $500-$1000 a month and continue golfing, drinking, skirt chasing, porno watching or any family activities that you like to do with your spare time all the while saving that extra $500-$1000 a month. After 12 months of saving all of a sudden you have an EXTRA $6000-$12000 to spend on buying a GOOD car.

I will take issue with everything you said.

The very first thing, is that you really don't have a clue as to what you are buying, especially in that price range. Most of those cars (in that price range) are buried in bondo, been repaired in the 80's using brazing which warped the living daylights out of the panels, or are just buried in so many layers of paint, that it's a pinata when you start opeing it up.

As a garage builder or hobbiest. There is absolutely nothing wrong with getting in cheap and working on it piece by piece or however many years it'll take you to finish it. The issue here is skill or apptitude. Even without the skills currently with enough time and patience there is no reason why anyone cannot build their own car.

And lastly if you are building a car "as an investment" or to "flip it" then you are probably going to lose your ass. There is a line of worth, that has to be determined. Then that determines how far you'll go in building the car, what parts etc...

[bret]

From experience...buy the best car you can possibly find...finance it if you must. The more perfect the car is to start with the less expensive the oferall project will be in the end [and vice versa].

Right now, the least expensive way to build a nice PT Camaro? Find a small block automatic restoration in the color you like and start bolting parts onto it.

I have built cars from rust buckets before. That is why I don't anymore.

[vintageracer]

From experience...buy the best car you can possibly find...

Right now, the least expensive way to build a nice PT Camaro? Find a small block automatic restoration in the color you like and start bolting parts onto it.

I have built cars from rust buckets before. That is why I don't anymore.

GAMEBALL! Says Captain Canower in The Original Longest Yard movie.

Listen to Bret as he has probably built more cars than most of us have ever owned!

[est1981]

i really got some attention on this one...lol

i understand that the best place to start is with something solid and i will have to be paitent, something that even the misses says that i need to work on, but i have never worked on a car! should i get something nice like an 80's iroc and eff it all up cause i dont know how to work on suspension? my thought is why not buy the bucket with rust and learn how to patch a panel properly or figure out which hand the dolly goes in and what exactly is a hammer. there is a learning curve right? really was "bad penny" and "f-bomb" the first car, whatabout the pile that came before them.

[MonzaRacer]

LISTEN to Bret, heck he rebuilt a Mustang FROM A FIRE, thats love for a car.
Depending on tools, time, building space, and what everyone else said on skills you need to judge where you can do the work and what you can have farmed out ,both on a payment scale and an availability scale, if you live 2000 miles away from ,say Prodigy, and want them to get the body ship shape then take it home, you figure in shipping , flying in to look it over AND their charges.
REREAD some of the supposed "great local shop that has done show cars before" and cars getting ripped apart, shoddy repairs and money ripped off, heck research it. I think it was OLMLF (or please correct my spelling of his screen name if Im wrong, guys) his Firebird was getting "fixed" on a budget, so a now sponsor on here went and got it, took over THEN because this guy was in military and deployed I think, that shop went way out of their way to get it done, donating lots of time, many sponsors donated parts and time (Prodigy being one also), this can be a love hate relationship in building cars.
I can take a car, and usually have, that was inexpensive, and started building. This was because I am a mechanic by trade, I like building up cars from fence rows, and I can see generally see the appropriate requirements to put it back into shape.
My Monza is what Iwould call a $250 car, complete with locked up engine, ? trans, but I have those and the rearend up grade and the 5 lug/brake upgrade from previous car as this is a replacement.
My other car was acquired to house my b ig block, Nd its has developed into a " I want it cheap, butttt,,,," as its now gonna get Vette brakes, switch pitch 400 trans, Vette wheels, etc.
This all ads up to another $2000 in the end between tires, repairing and upgrading the trans and deciding on brakes part supplier and such.
BUT again I am in business of working on cars so A LOT of tools I need I have already as I get the required tools from tool truck!
BUT depending on your project also will tell you how bad previous repairs can be. A 12th owner " numbers matching " 67 Camaro may be bad ,may be good.
My 84 .2dr Caprice is relatively rust free, never wrecked, sans driveline, and cheap. And it will do just what I want and be a driver project that can be under $5000, except for paint. Heck it may even get painted by me in brothers driveway, since he has my compressor.

[daredvl22]

This is a very interesting thread. I've enjoyed reading all the different view points. I wanted to add my two cents. I purposely bought a complete basket case Camaro, so I could do all the work and learn as I go. I paid a little more because it was a true RS/SS, but I'm building a PT car, so it really doesn't matter. The car had no motor, or trans. I did sell the original 12 bolt rear for about $1,500 profit, so that was nice. I could really care less about #'s matching since I didn't have the original motor or trans anyway. I knew when I bought the car it would take several years to complete, and I would most likely need to replace every panel. The cool thing about building a car this way, I can build it exactly how I want it. I am not building this car to make a profit. I am building this car for the experience and joy of doing it myself. This is therapy for me. I could easily buy a complete car, or have a pro builder build one for me, but what's the fun in that? The rush of finding original doors in perfect shape, or searching ebay and craigslist for rare parts is just fun and exciting. I'm also building my tool collection in the process. In fact, my brand new Quincy 5 hp 60 gal. air compressor was delivered last night! This whole process keeps me sane and I look forward to every little bit of work I can do on the car. I love to post my progress pics and get feedback from the everyone on this site. This is my hobby, and I truely love it. I honestly can't get enough of it.
So, if you're willing to build a car from the ground up, do it. However, do it for the right reasons. For me it's personal gratification. Not status, to make money, etc. This may sound strange, but I somewhat dread the day the project is completed. I already have one car completed that I never drive (..and that's my fault I know), but I get more enjoyment out of the build, more than anything. Good luck with whatever you decide.

[redfire69]

You just eliminated 90+% of the project cars out there for sale right now.

Buy a great car done. It's a WHOLE lot cheaper!

I speak from experience...LOL!

[dhutton]

This is a very interesting thread. I've enjoyed reading all the different view points. I wanted to add my two cents. I purposely bought a complete basket case Camaro, so I could do all the work and learn as I go. I paid a little more because it was a true RS/SS, but I'm building a PT car, so it really doesn't matter. The car had no motor, or trans. I did sell the original 12 bolt rear for about $1,500 profit, so that was nice. I could really care less about #'s matching since I didn't have the original motor or trans anyway. I knew when I bought the car it would take several years to complete, and I would most likely need to replace every panel. The cool thing about building a car this way, I can build it exactly how I want it. I am not building this car to make a profit. I am building this car for the experience and joy of doing it myself. This is therapy for me. I could easily buy a complete car, or have a pro builder build one for me, but what's the fun in that? The rush of finding original doors in perfect shape, or searching ebay and craigslist for rare parts is just fun and exciting. I'm also building my tool collection in the process. In fact, my brand new Quincy 5 hp 60 gal. air compressor was delivered last night! This whole process keeps me sane and I look forward to every little bit of work I can do on the car. I love to post my progress pics and get feedback from the everyone on this site. This is my hobby, and I truely love it. I honestly can't get enough of it.
So, if you're willing to build a car from the ground up, do it. However, do it for the right reasons. For me it's personal gratification. Not status, to make money, etc. This may sound strange, but I somewhat dread the day the project is completed. I already have one car completed that I never drive (..and that's my fault I know), but I get more enjoyment out of the build, more than anything. Good luck with whatever you decide.

This is exactly how I feel. I've finished my Firebird and now I'm starting on my GTO. In some ways it is more challenging than the Firebird due to the lack of aftermarket factory style replacement panels. But for me that is a good thing, I am learning how to fit and butt weld patch panels instead of plug welding factory style panels. The suspension will also be completely different and I may do a T56 instead of 4L60E just to do something different. It's all about learning for me.

[vintageracer]

The very first thing, is that you really don't have a clue as to what you are buying, especially in that price range. Most of those cars (in that price range) are buried in bondo, been repaired in the 80's using brazing which warped the living daylights out of the panels, or are just buried in so many layers of paint, that it's a pinata when you start opeing it up.

That issue is easily solved.

Pay a professional you trust Free-$500 to come look at the car with you and you can easily avoid that issue. Paying for professional services such as this can easily be the BEST money you will spend during the ownership of your car!

Another great way to make a "smokin" deal when buying a car is to budget $1000 for travel to look at cars for every $10,000 you are willing to spend on a car. Willing to spend $20,000 to buy a car? Budget $2000 of the $20K for travel. Do your homework to eliminate junk the best you can before you travel and then go travel to look at the car/cars that interest you! I guarantee you that you will find one car that meets your needs AND some poor SOB that needs to sell his car bad!!! That all ads up to a huge savings that in most cases is far greater than the amount you spent on traveling to look at cars. It doesn't cost to travel to look at cars it PAY'S you big time!

It's easy for a seller to turn down offers they receive via email or the telephone but it's a WHOLE lot more difficult for a seller to turn down an offer from a man standing there with money ready to buy. Turn you back and start to walk off and see how fast they chase you these days! This is especially true if the live in Iowa or some other location that ain't quite the center of the collector car or PT World!!!!

The biggest problem with the "lets travel to look at cars" method is that it's not that people are UNABLE to travel to look at cars they are UNWILLING to travel to look at cars. Why? People are LAZY! I hear all the time from folks that they don't have time to travel. That's crap! Well have the same 24 hours in a day. They may not be willing to MAKE the time to go look at a car but don't tell me you don't have time. Obviously something else in your life is more important than that car you think you want. It's a choice, choose to travel. Hell, this is America. You don't have to do much of anything if you do not want to. Most anyone can figure out some way suck off the government nipple so you can have more time to do the fun stuff in life that you enjoy!

Why build a car today when there are so many good cars out there for sale? Like Bret said:

"Right now, the least expensive way to build a nice PT Camaro? Find a small block automatic restoration in the color you like and start bolting parts onto it."

Not only is that the least expensive way to build a PT Camaro even more important is that it is the quickest way to build a PT Camaro. No paint work, No body work, No major Interior work just bolt on work. It's fun and you see quick progress on your car. And most important you actually might be able to participate in the Motor State Challenge and Run to the Hills in 2010 instead of just being a spectator!

[rlplive]

I already have a car that needs a lot of work. It even needs a new framerail due to collision/rust. I look forward to building it myself. I am going to replace one thing at a time and keep it driveable. Sure it would be great to have a car in better shape, but that's just not an option for me. Plus how many stories have you read where someone gives good money for a car, only to find out there is crappy work hiding under the paint. I say if you can afford a nice car buy it. If you can't then get a car that needs some work. I would never in my life finance a project car, or any car for that matter.

[willieboy240]

This is exactly how I feel. I've finished my Firebird and now I'm starting on my GTO. In some ways it is more challenging than the Firebird due to the lack of aftermarket factory style replacement panels. But for me that is a good thing, I am learning how to fit and butt weld patch panels instead of plug welding factory style panels. The suspension will also be completely different and I may do a T56 instead of 4L60E just to do something different. It's all about learning for me.

most people have the same thought in mind when starting out on a project. the reality of it is that 95% of them never get done. so unless it's something that you have really thought about long and hard. it's better to get one that is close to done. then just put your finishing touches on it.

[dhutton]

most people have the same thought in mind when starting out on a project. the reality of it is that 95% of them never get done. so unless it's something that you have really thought about long and hard. it's better to get one that is close to done. then just put your finishing touches on it.

My Firebird was very rough when I started. Three years later it was finished. I anticipate the same sort of timeline with my GTO. It's not a race to get it done for me. Once I get it done I'm just looking around for something else to build anyway.

[DarkBuddha]

My car was by most definitions probably too far gone:




But that didn't stop me from dropping $4500 on bodywork (new quarters, new front and rear torque boxes, new floors, new inner wheelhousings, new rear valence, new hood, new fenders, repaired A & B pillars, etc.):




So how far is too far gone? I figure it's when you don't care about it enough to fix it or you have to worry about getting a financial return on the work.

[DaviRotten]

Not to be rude in anyway.. But honestly if you half to ask a question like the first post then u should avoid all of them together. Nothing is ever to far gone. Skill , time ,and money are the 3 things you should always keep in mind when looking at a project.LOL this by many would be considered to far gone...
Fine by me cause I get it even cheaper.

[est1981]

ok rotten that looks like something i could work with!! that is just like the car that i see on in this guys backyard on the way to work. the way i see it all you need is a couple panels, some glass, rebuild kit and some steelies and abracadabra solid runner. am i right?

[est1981]

i will upload a pic of what i am talking about tomorrow

[thetoystore]

i like cars that most people would consider to far gone. 1 they are CHEAP and 2 i dont feel as bad when i cut them up.

[DaviRotten]

ok rotten that looks like something i could work with!! that is just like the car that i see on in this guys backyard on the way to work. the way i see it all you need is a couple panels, some glass, rebuild kit and some steelies and abracadabra solid runner. am i right?

Thats the thing.. If it looks like so on the outside then its bound to be hiding gremlins on the inside..The car pictured needs more then some panels.The car has sat for a good 10 plus years. brake lines fuel lines bushings sheet metal gas tank interior glass engine tranny rearend there is alot of work and money. You cant jus slap some junkyard engine in it some fenders and a maaco paint job and have a quality car. More like a death trap. Granted u have to learn one way or another but thats where skill goes with money and takes time.. Its all up to you and what you truely intend to do with the car..

You might look at a car and go hey that jus needs qtrs at first glance. Until u notice it needs inner qtrs wheel wells. Or it may look like it needs a patch in the floor until u start cleaning the metasl up and noticing the hole doesnt stop growing . Next thing you know ur into the inner rockers and the floor braces.. Then your thing wtf am I getting myself into. At that point you have revealed to much and probally couldnt sell it for what ya bought it for.

Jus remember its not a tv show.. Its not as easy as overhauling makes it look.

[est1981]

not too bad i think. needs work. i totally agree with you there there are gremlins but if i can get it cheap than why not