Modified AJE strut tower in Classic Falcon

[windsor]

I keep hearing conflicting info on it. Sure, for what I want to do a MII is probably adequate, but overall on forums I hear they are not the better of the options and primarily only create more engine room.

Then, I go to a place like Corner Carvers (yes, I know - that's like asking for a beating after you just received one) and they say "my" idea won't work and I'm an idiot for putting a BBF in an early Falcon. Well sure, for their purposes yeah, maybe not the best idea. But, I haven't really gotten any productive feedback from them on WHY it won't work...just that Mac struts suck and I shouldn't modify it to make it suckier, that I should get Griggs or, lo and behold, a MII and be done with it. And I'm thinking, "at least explain to me why it won't work, oh Gods of Suspension"....which hasn't happend yet - well except for some insight in post #9 by Boo Boo Foo (that's 1 out of 42-ish posts). Here's the link for those that want to laugh at me some - http://forums.corner-carvers.com/sho...525#post795525

I think my idea has a legitimate interest as an alternative to those out there looking for more engine bay space in an early Mustang/Falcon. IF it can be made to work at least as decent as a MII set up, then why not? A tubular K-member is definitely LIGHTER...which is a huge benefit, especially to those running a bigger/heavier engine.

But, maybe it won't work...which is all I'm trying to figure out. Thanks for any other input folks.

[wiedemab]

If you want to make more room and don't want the MII suspension Geometry, you could look at Art Morrison's IFS. It would give you similar benefits as far as freeing up some space and has great geometry. You would need to strengthen the front clip to support the difference in how it would load the rails etc., but basically what you would/should do for a MII

Just another thought...........

[windsor]

Someone brought that up in the CC thread as well...I'm going to check into it now.

But, I guess I'm just trying to figure out more 'stock-type' solutions. Realizing, however, it may not work.

[windsor]

Ok, spent some time looking it over, and I can't really tell the difference between a MII (Heidts for example) and the Morrison IFS.???

[Bryce]

Damm, now yer gonna make me cry.. LOL Really, are they that bad?? I put one in my nova. I am doing some mods on it right now but I am expecting good things. I do see alot, ok, EVERYONE talking about how bad the MII suspension is, and what I mostly see is ackerman and roll center issues (too low and travels alot).

But it is a solid suspension, easy to work on and align. Nice steering with the rack. I was able to run the arms through all the motions, checking camber gain. You can dial in caster anywhere from 0 to about 5.5 degrees. Decent scrub numbers with the right wheel.

Its by not means a top performer. But when you compare it to some stock suspensions its not bad.

And as for the frame flexing and bending, I havent heard of those issues. You always support the frame with additional links that connect to the firewall area. And I have full sub-frame connectors that are welded in all the way back to the 4-link.

Oh, and some nice wilwood 13" brakes help the whoa section

Ill be able to talk more about the handling once this project is done. Getting closer. Sway bar was the last thing and its in... JR

It not all that bad. But most kits for mustangs do not have extra bracing. and th frame rails really cant support those loads as they were not intended to do that from the factory.

as for the geometry, the roll center is below ground. i never thought that was good. and if it truely a MII facotry points the camber gain can be improved and the short shocks kinda bother me. Im runnin a 20.5" extended length shock in my front suspension with 7" of bind free travel. Not like i use it... but I can. haha. It sounds like you really modified your stuff. so call it a MJR not a MII. haha

also non of the MII kit supliers ever have analysis of their suspension. If i improved a suspension then i would brag about how good it is. not just say that is has been improved.

your adjustable arms are making up most of your gains over stock. i think.

[JRouche]

Then, I go to a place like Corner Carvers (yes, I know - that's like asking for a beating after you just received one)

Im laughing my ass off. Aint it true. Some great car folks there. But I get the feeling that Im just looking for a whipping if I dare post anything there ... Sometimes I like to buck the system and when I get in that mood then Ill post there. But when Id like some decent sound advise I kinda like this place. Not too many engineers gonna rip yer ears off. Umm, ok, engineers start the ripping .. JR

[JRouche]

as for the geometry, the roll center is below ground. i never thought that was good. and if it truely a MII facotry points the camber gain can be improved and the short shocks kinda bother me.

Oh man!!! You nailed it. I can deal with the deep RC, Ill accommodate for that. But the short travel!!!! SUCKS. And Im not looking to off road this pig of mine. But come on, 5" of total travel is pretty thin. Yup, you nailed that one on the head. Umm, did I forget to call that short coming out LOL... JR

[windsor]

Im laughing my ass off. Aint it true. Some great car folks there. But I get the feeling that Im just looking for a whipping if I dare post anything there ... Sometimes I like to buck the system and when I get in that mood then Ill post there. But when Id like some decent sound advise I kinda like this place. Not too many engineers gonna rip yer ears off. Umm, ok, engineers start the ripping .. JR

Well, that was my first post there, so I expected to get torn up. However, they didn't seem real interested in helping to begin with, just thrust their very subjective opinion upon me. aaahhhh well...

I think I'm still going to go this route. The more I research it and think about it the more I suspect it will work. Perfect? No.. Doable for what I'm trying to do? I think so...

BUT, please anyone with suggestions or ideas keep them coming.

[wiedemab]

Ok, spent some time looking it over, and I can't really tell the difference between a MII (Heidts for example) and the Morrison IFS.???

It maybe worth a call to Art Morrison. I can tell you that their IFS geometry is not MII. It is scratch designed around the Wilwood spindle. It uses a late model Mustang (ie: Fox Body era) rack and pinion. It resembles a MII I know - I guess due to the fact that they were trying to package it so that it would fit many of the applications that historically used MII setup/kits. Their Tri5 chassis use this front setup and perform really well.

I'm not saying that you necessarily want to go this route, but I would look into it before you write it off as another MII kit.

[Bryce]

Windsor,

Sorry about those CC guys, seems like their opinions are the only ones that are right. If you want a street car that handles well than do it. yes a big block weighs more and will have some negative impact on driving but a 600 horsepower SBF will also have some drivability issues. Talk about a radical setup. HAHA.

Anyway, I gave this some thought and i might have said some of this before. A fox body strut is shorter than a SN95 strut this may give you a different option for packaging. also a drop spindle may give you the abilty to lengthen your strut to get the ride height you want. this will raise your car after you lower it with the spindles. this will put the strut back in the center of motion after you lowered the upper mount. The only way i would change the upper strut mount is to lower it along the same line as intended in the kit. this will move it out and down at the same time not just out. this will keep the relatively same camber gain and static camber as intended by AJE. also whatever you do make sure the LCA is horizontal to the ground at ride height. and use an adjustable LCA and a huge offset front wheel will be mandatory. Im running a 7.5" wheel with a 4" ack space. You may need to run a 5" backspace so you can get the LCA long enough.

JR,

So what size sway bar did you have to run? HAHA. just teasing.

[Bad Bird]

However, they didn't seem real interested in helping to begin with, just thrust their very subjective opinion upon me. aaahhhh well...

You know what? Don't get pissy at people who tell you good, sound advice that you just don't want to hear. It just makes you seem extremely rude. Remember the quote by Bossbill "You only hear what you want to hear"? It still stands. I don't think you are being very fair at all by claiming that only one of the posts was useful. Heck, I even posted an undercar video of the RRS struts so that you could see why this wasn't a great idea.

[windsor]

Sorry Bird, but that was the only single post that attempted to explain actual geometry on the issue. I think anyone who was considering any kind of strut suspension for a classic Ford would have seen that video already.

If you read all of my posts in that one thread, you will see I came with respect, continued the respect even with being badgered, and have continued to be respectful in that thread. It is a legitimate question I raised and welcome any and all criticism, positive or negative...I just don't appreciate posters being negative and condescending at the same time while also not trying to tell me why they think it's a bad idea, no matter how much knowledge they have. After all, they have no idea who I am or who they are talking to.... I completely stand by my statement above....that is all.

[JRouche]

You know what? Don't get pissy at people who tell you good, sound advice that you just don't want to hear. It just makes you seem extremely rude.

Whoa Mr Bird. There were alot of guys just being rude (my not to get banned term, I have better words for them). I went and looked at the thread. It was not at all useful what some of the replies were. I got that "Im high and mighty" feeling from some of the guys.

And it is common place there when a new guy shows up wanting some advise. Constructive criticism is one thing. Belittling and battering is something else.

And as far as being pissy. I didnt see that. Crap!!! Pissy was what some of the replies were there. He was just communicating here.

And Im NOT even saying all the folks there are like that. Just a few. I gather info from ALL the sites. CC is a great site also. Just some of the weeds need some round-up. JR

[NOGO]

All this BS about "trick" suspensions is halfway worthless unless you know how to work with what you have. I have an early Nova with a few bolt-ons and small tires and can hang with the best of them. Its not all that far off from a Mustang/ Falcon. I say work with what you have and utilize your shock, spring, and sway bars to get the car dialed in. A steering rack kit for fast precise steering would not hurt either.

Is MII crap? Maybe if you dont know how to work with it. Do you want to build your own suspension system? Its not worth the effort if it looks exactly like every other aftermaket suspension option I have seen.

Your limitations are going to come down to driving skill, not splitting hairs with your suspension setup.

[windsor]

I'd completely agree with you, NOGO, if I wasn't putting an engine in that didn't allow the use of stock type suspension. I have to either us a MII style or go semi-custom, which is why I'm investigating this method.

Falcon65 is a good example of using/improving the stock style.

[Bryce]

All this BS about "trick" suspensions is halfway worthless unless you know how to work with what you have. I have an early Nova with a few bolt-ons and small tires and can hang with the best of them. Its not all that far off from a Mustang/ Falcon. I say work with what you have and utilize your shock, spring, and sway bars to get the car dialed in. A steering rack kit for fast precise steering would not hurt either.

Is MII crap? Maybe if you dont know how to work with it. Do you want to build your own suspension system? Its not worth the effort if it looks exactly like every other aftermaket suspension option I have seen.

Your limitations are going to come down to driving skill, not splitting hairs with your suspension setup.

the dowside of a MII is the complexity and mods needed to put in a 65 mustang/falcon. Its alot of work for limited gain. a stock suspension with the shelby drop has better geometry than a MII. if you have an MII like JR then it needs some adjustable control arms and a huge sway bar. this will make it handle. i think its silly for us classic mustang/falcon guys to go to an MII when you can have a bolt on suspension like i designed and have a better handling car.

as for engine clearance the strut suspension looks to be the best option. and just design it around the inherent flaws of a strut suspension and make it work. Look at how well newer mustangs can handle with the struts.

I would never put in an MII. LOL

[JRouche]

i think its silly for us classic mustang/falcon guys to go to an MII when you can have a bolt on suspension like i designed and have a better handling car.

Ok, dont take this wrong, Im just looking at the humor side of it, on my part, my car. I have a chevy and I have a ford front and rear. It would seem almost a no brainer for me to put a MII suspension in a falcon. I get it you dont like the MII fronts. And really, I dont know anything about the original fronts on those cars. But on the 62 nova, the strut suspension is too big, too heavy and too weak to keep it when there are so many other possibilities. I would have loved to stuff a corvette front in there. But my money didnt stretch that far LOL

I like the idea of keeping the semblense of the original suspension. And specially if it workd well.

Oh, and on a side note. Id still like to hear first hand, from someone that has a modified MII suspension in that still says its worse than what they had in place. Id like to bounce some ideas off them. See if there is a fix. Everything can be fixed JR

[Evoix]

Sorry, I saw this old thread and am very interested to know how it turned out - I too like the idea of the AJE racing strut suspension