Spal Controller vs. Taurus fan

[planemech]

Hi,

Want to share a story and get some input. I'm driving a 69 Camaro/383 small block and changed to GM serpentine belt setup. At the same time I installed a Taurus fan on my 4 core stock type radiator. I ordered the Spal Contoller to run that, this was the original version.

Everything seemed to be working fine, as the car isn't driven much. One day decide to take the wife and kids for a drive. As we are cruising along to water temp begins to climb. Pull over and the controller is smoking. Disconnect controller. Hot wire fan and drive home. Inspect wiring, fan, etc. see nothing amiss. Box up Controller and ship back for replacement. Park car and Deploy to Iraq.

Fast forward 8 months. I'm home on leave and decide to take car to the track. Install the replacement controller and all is well. Race all weekend. No issues. Go to the garage a couple of days later and the car battery is completely drained. Throw charger on the car and the electric fan comes on. Controller now is defaulted to the always on condition and have to pull fuse/power to shut it off. Pull that controller and call place where it was bought. I'm informed that a new version of the controller is now available but the price has almost doubled. Sent the old version back and got a new version, just paid the difference.

Well apparently the new version is not compatable with fans that draw over 30 amps for any length of time. The controller simply shuts off the fan if it sees over 25 amps draw for any length of time. Of course none of this is mentioned. So now I've got a fan and controller that will not play together.

I notice now that on the Spal website it states that their controller cannot be used with the Taurus or Mark VII fan.

The controller doesnt even make a good paperweight.

Thanks for your time.

John

[LowBuckX]

First thanks for your service and welcome home.

Well I see thats a variable speed cotroller. The Taurus fan pulls 100Amp on start up and like 50 continual. My first thought was to use controller to fire a relay but that wont work. My Taurus fan is ran with multiple senders and 3 relays to use the 2 speed function.. Here is my schematic and method of running the Taurus fan.

[Motown 454]

planemech Thank you for your service and glad your home safe.
LowBuckx I'm going to be using a Fast XFI it has fan control on it . With your schematic would I just use the XFI where your fan switch is or would it be completely different?

[LowBuckX]

planemech Thank you for your service and glad your home safe.
LowBuckx I'm going to be using a Fast XFI it has fan control on it . With your schematic would I just use the XFI where your fan switch is or would it be completely different?

Yes It would replace the Hayden switch.

[thoroco]

Hi,

My name is Dave Chapman from The Hollister Road Company and we make several relay kits for Mark VIII and Taurus fans. I'd like to give you some information on Mark VIII and Taurus fans so you can make an informed choice in how you want to control it. I have two links regarding what fans draw what amps and how they perform.
http://www.thehollisterroadcompany.com/MarkVIII.html
and
http://www.thehollisterroadcompany.c...VIIIrelay.html

The Taurus fans draw much less than the 100 amps everyone says it does and the spike is for a second or less. Still its enough to kill most DC controls quickly. There is only one DC control that I know of that handles the taurus fan but not the Mark VIII and its made by DC Control. Another issue is if your running a LSx motor with a PCM/BCM how do you intergrate the fans into the logics. The above links should help with that.

[Taylor1969]

I have a spal that was installed bu unused for sale if you are interested. It is the newest (v3) I think.

[FULMNTE]

Yup:

https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/sh...highlight=spal

I finally ended up with a Dakota Digital unit switching TYCO 75 A relays low/high speed... No issues for 300 miles so far...

[planemech]

Thanks for all of the great info. I'll probably build my own relay setup.

John

[baskin]

Hi,

My name is Dave Chapman from The Hollister Road Company and we make several relay kits for Mark VIII and Taurus fans. I'd like to give you some information on Mark VIII and Taurus fans so you can make an informed choice in how you want to control it. I have two links regarding what fans draw what amps and how they perform.
http://www.thehollisterroadcompany.com/MarkVIII.html
and
http://www.thehollisterroadcompany.c...VIIIrelay.html

The Taurus fans draw much less than the 100 amps everyone says it does and the spike is for a second or less. Still its enough to kill most DC controls quickly. There is only one DC control that I know of that handles the taurus fan but not the Mark VIII and its made by DC Control. Another issue is if your running a LSx motor with a PCM/BCM how do you intergrate the fans into the logics. The above links should help with that.

There are probably a couple of thousand mark viii fans running off of the smallest dcc controller ever manufactured, the fk35, the fk85 will run two of them

I've also probably shipped a few hundred Taurus fans and the peak current on the Taurus fan is 120A, I've measured it a number of times. As far as it effecting what you call dc controllers, which I assume you mean variable speed controllers, it has no effect on them, whether it's one that I build or anyone else builds.

[Denvervet]

There are probably a couple of thousand mark viii fans running off of the smallest dcc controller ever manufactured, the fk35, the fk85 will run two of them

I've also probably shipped a few hundred Taurus fans and the peak current on the Taurus fan is 120A, I've measured it a number of times. As far as it effecting what you call dc controllers, which I assume you mean variable speed controllers, it has no effect on them, whether it's one that I build or anyone else builds.

If that is so then what is happenig to the guy's controller?

[baskin]

The spal controllers were designed for about 25A average current, and that's all that matters on a pwm, average current. The only controllers, in fact, that are effected by peak current are relay based controllers, which, ironically, is what he's here to sell.

[thoroco]

The spal controllers were designed for about 25A average current, and that's all that matters on a pwm, average current. The only controllers, in fact, that are effected by peak current are relay based controllers, which, ironically, is what he's here to sell.

I have no dispute with what you have said above BUT

The peak or in rush on the relay we use is over 150 amps. The peak amp draw on these fans is only milliseconds and not nearly enough to damage the relay. Even if it does burn out a relay you can get a replacement at any autoparts store and be back on the road. Our design is that the low speed is moving prior to high speed so when it hits high the peak is minimal. Add to that our A/C equipt unit has two parrallel 60 amp relays with a 300 amp combine peak rate and an average load rate of 120 amps if it hits that it isn't even a concern.

The pitfalls of DC Controllers or variable speed controllers makes relays a very viable option. The fact that if a relay goes bad you replace a $5 part. If the DC Control goes bad its back to the factory for repair. Ford has several million Mark VIII/Taurus fans running off a 40 amp relay. So I think a relay thats sized properly is a good choice for a 2 speed fan as long as you don't need speed ramping or variable speed like some Mark VII's are. My kits can't make a two speed fan out of a single speed fan but a DC Control can make a single speed into a variable speed fan.

So with that said I'm not saying that I have the cure all to Ford fans but neither is a DC Control of any brand, What I am saying its our kit is reliable, affordable and fills a particular need for the single speed and two speed fans.

Just as a note we tested on new fans not used and haven't seen the 100-120 amp spike.

[bigblockcamino]

planemech Thank you for your service and glad your home safe.
LowBuckx I'm going to be using a Fast XFI it has fan control on it . With your schematic would I just use the XFI where your fan switch is or would it be completely different?

How many fans are you running? only one? I'm trying to figure out how to have 2 fans running with the XFI/AC.

[bigblockcamino]

planemech Thank you for your service and glad your home safe.
LowBuckx I'm going to be using a Fast XFI it has fan control on it . With your schematic would I just use the XFI where your fan switch is or would it be completely different?

double post.. sorry

[H2Ogbodies]

Well-I can say I have a lot of experience dealing with the Mark VIII fans and I can say the DC Controller is about the best pwm controller you'll find. The new Spal controllers are junk-I have an account with them and they appear to be moving backwards with regards to controller flexability...imo an effort to keep moving their line of pancake motored fans with their controllers....and, the newest replacement Mark VIII fans are Mexicanmade and single speed now (you can tell by the addition of a plastic inspection plug on the back of the motor-that indicates single speed, not dual speed so they can't even be used on the factory Lincolns they were designed for-piece of ***** imo) and the price has jumped...what a crock. However, there is an error in saying you can replace a relay for $6 bucks at any parts store...where can you find in any parts store a 70 amp relay for $6 in stock? If you find them, I'll buy all they have. I build my own wire harnesses for my customers so I have a lot of experience dealing with this kind of stuff. You won't find a 70 amp, tamping diode equipped relay in any parts store....heck just mentioning you need a relay will throw off 95% of the people who work in the parts store anymore...you'll hear something like..."okay, what year do you have?" A 1969 Camaro...."Okay-drum brakes or disc...? wtf? you think then you say discs..."okay, what size engine....?" a 572...." hmmm..okay, I don't see that...let's go with a 396.....now, what part was it you needed again...?" A 70 amp relay for my fan. "well, the only thing I can find for a relay is for your AC/blower motor...is that it?" No, it's for my electric engine fan. "All I'm seeing is NA." OH NEVERMIND THEN GODFRIGGIT!!!

I know you all have been in this situation from one time or another!

[thoroco]

However, there is an error in saying you can replace a relay for $6 bucks at any parts store...where can you find in any parts store a 70 amp relay for $6 in stock? If you find them, I'll buy all they have.

Your right about the 70 amp relay being hard to find but we use 40/60 amp in our relay kits. Very common relay at almost all parts stores and we put them in parrallel so you could get by with a staright 40 in a pinch and still have 80 amp constant draw and 120 surge.

[TnBlkC230WZ]

The Dakota Digital controller and two relays will work fine. You can use a 40 amp relay as long as it can tollerate a 100 amp in rush. Most of the cheap Tyco and Panasonic ones won't. Omron's and DuraKool relays will work fine. Even the 70 amp Panasonic is really under rated for the Taurus fan, but a lot of people use them. It just won't last as long.

[H2Ogbodies]

"could get by..."...? Most people want a reliable setup from the start. Electrical current moves to the point of less resistance...relays are not meant to be doubled up in a high current situation as if to assume the two can seamingly "split" the current load and share it to avoid shorting. The problem with using underrated relays is that the inrush spike on cheap relays can fuse the contacts together as well as high, sustained current loads making the relay contacts so hot that the contacts can become fused together-resulting in a fan run-on condition. For the relatively cheap price of high quality relays, there is no reason to not use them. Parts stores don't generally sell the better ones because for one thing, they carry Chinese/Taiwan made relays and they are general purpose relays which is what most people buy IF they buy relays at all-they just aren't common parts so parts stores don't carry a good variety of high quality relays. I use Hella HD 70-amp relays and they are among the best you can find. You can't get them everywhere but I buy them in bulk because those are the only relays I use for HO fan assemblies where a relay activation is required.