Project? TBird SC vs. Monte SS

[fastback]

I'd build a Fox-bodied Bird (big surprise, right). Do a pro-charged 347 stroker with a six speed. Bolt in the Cobra IRS and Cobra brakes, like mine. Do coilovers, or Air-Ride and you're all set.

To get started on a budget, throw in a stock 5.0/5spd combo from a Mustang. It all bolts right in. Bolt-ons to make a 5.0 scream are endless.

The Mustang 8.8 rear bolts right in, but is 1.5" narrower than the T-Bird rear. It provides added strength, Traction Loc and more room for more rear tire.

Grab a set of spindles, axles and brakes from an SN95 Mustang. They go for like 250.00 at the junkyard. Now you have 5 lug four wheel disc. From there, when you have a few bucks, you can upgrade the rotors and calipers to Cobra spec.

Some subframe connectors from the Mustang fit, but you'll need to check on which ones. To be safe, Maximum Motorsports makes T-Bird specific connectors. In fact, Maximum Motorsports makes a lot of T-Bird parts. I'm running Mustang upper and lower rear control arms. You need the adjustable ones to get your pinion angle right.

Mustang springs and struts bolt right on, but you need a special bracket to make Mustang rear shocks work. No biggie, just use T-Bird rear shocks instead.

Mustang headers and H-pipe will work, but you need to have tailpipes made, as the Bird is longer than the Mustang.

Check out this blown small block '88 TurboCoupe...

[ProTouring442]

I'd build a Fox-bodied Bird (big surprise, right). Do a pro-charged 347 stroker with a six speed. Bolt in the Cobra IRS and Cobra brakes, like mine. Do coilovers, or Air-Ride and you're all set.

To get started on a budget, throw in a stock 5.0/5spd combo from a Mustang. It all bolts right in. Bolt-ons to make a 5.0 scream are endless.

The Mustang 8.8 rear bolts right in, but is 1.5" narrower than the T-Bird rear. It provides added strength, Traction Loc and more room for more rear tire.

Grab a set of spindles, axles and brakes from an SN95 Mustang. They go for like 250.00 at the junkyard. Now you have 5 lug four wheel disc. From there, when you have a few bucks, you can upgrade the rotors and calipers to Cobra spec.

Some subframe connectors from the Mustang fit, but you'll need to check on which ones. To be safe, Maximum Motorsports makes T-Bird specific connectors. In fact, Maximum Motorsports makes a lot of T-Bird parts. I'm running Mustang upper and lower rear control arms. You need the adjustable ones to get your pinion angle right.

Mustang springs and struts bolt right on, but you need a special bracket to make Mustang rear shocks work. No biggie, just use T-Bird rear shocks instead.

Mustang headers and H-pipe will work, but you need to have tailpipes made, as the Bird is longer than the Mustang.

Check out this blown small block '88 TurboCoupe...

Damn that looks nice!

Shiny Side Up!
Bill

[kursed56]

It does look good and a lot of good info there also.

[fast Ed]

Depends on what the goals are for the car. The SC has the advantage of being a very comfortable cruiser with good handling out of the box compared to the Monte, and you can get a stick from the factory. However as mentioned they can be expensive to maintain and modify compared to a G-body Chev.


cheers
Ed N.

[No one]

Not really pro-touring but thought it might inspire some ideas. Lincoln Fox body with a swapped T5 (IIRC)



Another one (not the same car)


Just a gratuitous Thunderbird shot simply because I LOVE this one:

[minidemon]

I own a '93 T-bird SC. It is a very fun car and handels well too. If you were to buy a SC I would buy a pulley set and upgraded motor mount as the stock ones are fluid filled and tear easy. You can always do the cobra brake upgrade, which also give you a better wheel choice because its metric stock. I have seen guys put cobra DOHC motors in the T-birds but thats a whole diffrent story. They can get pricy when you get into the bigger mods though.

[joemac]

Although it is pretty stock right now my '94 will be getting big wheels and tires, massive brakes, suspension components and engine upgrades to improve the 5.0 I swapped in already.

Here are some pictures of it from about a year ago.

[No one]

MN12 Birds are 5x4.25, not metric.

[joemac]

It can also be expressed in millimeters, although rare I have seen it before 5x4.25 is 5x108mm

My car has been swapped to mustang hubs 5x4.5, hence the pro stars

[HectorM52]

It's a shame to hear that the SC's are so heavy. Any easy ways to lighten them up? Steel bumper supports? Change to all aluminum motor (LS??)? Anything?

Anyway, the SC gets my vote even though I'm through and through a Chevy guy...

...I remember back in high school this one dude had done his RIGHT. Reminds me of the one posted earlier doin' the Auto-x. I remember him lighting them up at one intersection and I was immediately in love.

Plus, did someone say IRS??? I mean, come on, that should be the deciding factor!!!

[fast Ed]

Just the power seats weigh about 85 pounds each, so going with aftermarket seats, and removing some sound deadening, can get 150 lbs. or more out of the car. Most of them tend to be pretty well equipped too, power driver's seat, A/C, power locks and windows, optional moonroof and pass. power seat. My 95 5-speed with just about every option available scaled at around 3,850 with me in it, and I'm a skinny bastid.

Here is a shot of my 95 getting hammered around Shannonville in eastern Ontario at an SVT club event I was helping out at a few years back:




cheers
Ed N.

[HectorM52]

Schweet! That's what I'm talking about!

[406 Q-ship]

3 gen is not hard if you are in us

1 . get this K-Members

Motor Mounts: ) LS1 Motor Mounts
Rack Mounts: 4th Gen Rack Mounts
Spring Perches: OEM Spring Perches
Price: $649.00

and Bushing A-Arms


Spring Perches: OEM Spring Perches
Price: $399.00

2. get one like this


$9,750.00 or more damage less money

And a G-body requires a car, engine mount adapter plates, engine, and headers.........a whole lot less and cheaper than a 3rd Gen F-body if it requires a K-brace, I'm just saying.

[406 Q-ship]

I beg to differ... only because this is an open forum and I have the luxury to do so. ;)

The 3rd Gen F-body is heads and tails a better platform for a handling/racing machine. Even my stock suspension 300,000km base model rust bucket Z28 has proven to be a more sound vehicle during an Auto-X than my Turbo Buick with substantial suspension, braking and tire/wheel improvements (many pulled from a 3rd Gen F-body catalog). The number one advantage that the 3rd Gen F-Body has over most every other tub built during that era is its CG. Attached is a very rough overlay of a stock 3rd Gen Camaro over my highly modified (and substantially lowered) Buick Regal. Now imagine those stock for stock, or better yet with the 3rd Gen at competition height... Then there is the wheel base & track width issue (pardon the turned wheels on the Camaro... it wasn't my photo), the Camaro lends itself more favourably in these areas too, even though both cars are of equal track width the Camaro is roughly 7 inches shorter; and that translates to a lot of advantages on the track. Then there are the basic go fast goodies that come factory in an F-body that don't ever appear in a G-body of any designation such as: big sway bars, wide wheels, fast ratio steering, good seats, manual transmissions, fuel injection (excluding the LC2 of course), 4 wheel disc brakes and so on...

So yes. The F-body is superior to the G-body (and the Thunderbird Super Coupe too as it is a helpless boat) and its dump truck handling characteristics. The G-body will understeer all day long and is a handful to drive at the best of times on the track.

However, when it comes to style nothing beats the diversity of the A/G-body from '78-88! There are so many beautiful models with subtle and serious face lifts from "mid-generation" makeovers to special models. The MCSS, 442, GP 2+2 and Turbo Buicks have a presence that you will never gain in an IROC or Trans Am; especially if you are fast in it and drive it well. Remember: a car is only as good as its driver; build what makes you happy.

Let me say right off that I'm not dissing the ability of the 3rd Gen F car, but the G cars are great handling chassis too. When you factor in which is easier and cheaper to get a LS series into, then the G-body is heads and shoulders above the 3rd Gen F-body. The Turbo Buicks were always tough cars to make handle due to the way the turbo comes on so hard, the engine are more set up for straight line acceleration. I worked with both Monte SS, Grand Nationals, Trans Ams, and Camaros built between 1980 and 1990 and know what each is capable of. If he wanted to keep the 1st Gen SBC then I would go with the 3rd Gen Camaro but when the engine swap gets thrown in..........G-body all the way.