Body seams below rear window

[David Hollis]

What is the protocol for the seams betwen the rear window filler panel and the quarter panels? I would like to weld them up with my MIG. Need some input please. Thanks, Dave

[David Hollis]

What is the protocol for the seams betwen the rear window filler panel and the quarter panels? I would like to weld them up with my MIG. Need some input please. Thanks, Dave

[Andrew McBride]

Just weld them up! I used a mig. Weld this area just like any other body panel. Weld 1/4-1/2" and cool with a rag. Grind it out and smooth it out with body filler once you get an even area. I do remember I had to remove that plastic-like stuff that is in the seam. I am not sure if it is bondo. Once you get all that out, you can stitch it up no problem.

I couldn't find a close up, but here is a pic of the tail panel area on my 68. Same process. http://s14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...isserie002.jpg

[awr68]

Are you asking if they can be welded? Sure! Clean all surfaces real well and stitch weld them...take your time in order to control warping the panels! Then grind smooth and you are ready for body work/paint.

[David Hollis]

Anthony, appreciate it. Old timers said not to, but times have changed, as well as understanding metal fatigue. Thanks, Dave

[David Hollis]

Andrew, Thanks. I really like the blue camaro. Kind of what I have in mind, but with my own twist. Dave

[Jim Nilsen]

This area is a very high stress area, welding it will make it brittle. If you look at all of the high end builders you never see it welded.

Filler is also not a good way as it will crack almost immediately or with in a few weeks of hard driving.

If you are doing it yourself and have the time you can make it virtually invisible with seam sealer. You have to apply the seam sealer so that it is raised above the surface and let it dry/harden. Using the right seam sealer is important as they are not all equal. I used The tan 3M that stays flexible and doesn't run when applied, I don't remember the #. Once it has gone about a week you can trim it down smooth and flat with a razor blade to the surface and repeat as needed then prime with an epoxy primer.

Factory convertibles were leaded to make them smooth and leading is done at a low enough temp as to not make the seam brittle.

You can also do the rear panel to the rear quarter in the same way. It too is a very high stress area and should not be welded.

I can't see the seam unless I get in just the right angle of light reflection. it will come and go with the temp. The colder it gets the likely you are to see it [very faintly and only at the right angle to the light]and when it is the temp it was work with at you can't see it at all. It has looked the same for over 10 years.

The way we are going to drive our cars it is not recommended. For a show car it won't make much of a difference.

One other note is that the stresses on most Camaros at the rear seams is not as bad if you remove the leaf spring setup and go to a link setup. if you are still going with the leaf setup don't weld the seams or you will cause problems down the road that are very difficult and expensive to fix.

It is up to you to you but this has been discussed many times in length and the pictures of the cracking sheetmetal from fatigue are enough to make anyone a believer.

[parsonsj]

Jim,



I'm not sure I agree... I don't believe this area is any more stressed than any other area of sheetmetal.

I think cracks and other problems are usually due to poor prep before paint (using filler over the factory spot welds, welding the panels without removing the factory seam sealer, or getting poor penetration and grinding the metal too thin).

My car has filled seams there and between the rocker and quarter panel. The boy at Road Killer did it correctly, and I have no issues nearly 5 years later.

jp

[Jim Nilsen]

Jim,

I'm not sure I agree... I don't believe this area is any more stressed than any other area of sheetmetal.

I think cracks and other problems are usually due to poor prep before paint (using filler over the factory spot welds, welding the panels without removing the factory seam sealer, or getting poor penetration and grinding the metal too thin).

My car has filled seams there and between the rocker and quarter panel. The boy at Road Killer did it correctly, and I have no issues nearly 5 years later.

jp

Hi John, the key thing is that you no longer have leaf springs. That's why I noted that if you go to a link type setup it may not be a big problem.

I have discussed this with Dave Pozzi many years ago and we have both seen stock Camaros that have been driven hard that have had problems. The rear panel to rear quarters is the the worst place it occurs. The lines right behind the rear window are not that bad but if you have ever looked at any that were filled with bondo they usually are cracked.

You are definately correct about the metal getting ground too thin when doing this and is probably the the biggest reason I didn't weld there. The seamsealer really did hide mine 99.5%. I also spent at least an hour or more lining up the seam with a hammer and dolly to make sure it was perfect so that when I sanded it I didn't have a chance of making it too thin.

I don't think I have ever seen a Nova with this problem because of the way the panels go together on them. It really is a Camaro/Firebird problem directly related to 1st gens.

I hope it is more clear to others now and thanks for joining in. It's always good to hear your comments ,experience and insight.

[David Hollis]

Thanks for the input guys. I will be installing a full rollcage with removeable sections in the front (firewall forward to frame) for easy engine servicing. I will triangulate the rear framerails with the cage, and hopefully this will reduce flex in the seam. The rear link system sounds like something I would definately be interested in installing in the future - maybe next year. Just having fun cleaning and welding in my spare time. I'll post some pics when I get further along. Enjoy Thanksgiving and don't forget to winterize those projects, Dave.

[The WidowMaker]

so it is a 1st gen problem? i planned on doing it to my 70 velle, but i havent heard of any problems. even with the frame, the velles flex pretty good, but i dont know that there would be any "stress" at these joints.

any opinions?

thanks, Tim

[Jim Nilsen]

so it is a 1st gen problem? i planned on doing it to my 70 velle, but i havent heard of any problems. even with the frame, the velles flex pretty good, but i dont know that there would be any "stress" at these joints.

any opinions?

thanks, Tim

Yes it is just a 1st gen Camaro/Firebird problem as I know it.

The rear framrails mount to the rear panel on a 1st gen and with the trunk pan spreading out the forces through the spring mounts it can really flex things in corners.This is because it is a unibody construction.

As far as A bodies go they are built differently. The flexing you have between the frame and body cause other problems that are just as much a pain in the sheetmetal mounts. The addition of roll cages and the ways to mount them can be a whole big discussion with the people who own them.

I hope this makes it a bit more clear.

The things we have to do to keep up with more POWER and STRESSFULL CORNERING !

[redzula]

I know that you are mostly talking about GM stuff but does anyone know about doing this to a 66 mustang?

[Doug G]

I bought my Camaro about 10 years ago and the seams were filled with bondo .... lots of it but it was a street/strip car. Never did it crack at the seams below back window or around tail panel.
Now that it's been re-done... it was seam sealed.
The car has had mono-leafs,then 4-leafs... but has always had sub-frame connectors.