New mopar member

[Kowalski340]

Hey everyone long time lurker first time poster. I'm currently building a 73 challenger for max effort class in global time attack. If I can help anyone with any mopar related issues hit me up. I have learned way too much by doing things twice lol.

[Bjkadron]

Hey everyone long time lurker first time poster. I'm currently building a 73 challenger for max effort class in global time attack. If I can help anyone with any mopar related issues hit me up. I have learned way too much by doing things twice lol.

Well come on, can't just drop a bomb like "73 challenger for max effort class in global time attack" and not give any details. Haha. Overview and pictures of your car? Maybe start a build thread? Welcome by the way!

[Kowalski340]

Haha yeah I really need to start a build thread. When I have time I will. The overview is front and rear suspension designed by Ron sutton. Rear is a decoupled offset 3 link. Powered by a twin turbo 6.2 based hemi. Trans is a 6 speed HGT sequential. All run with standalone by Haltech. That's the clifs notes version lol

[Bjkadron]

Haha yeah I really need to start a build thread. When I have time I will. The overview is front and rear suspension designed by Ron sutton. Rear is a decoupled offset 3 link. Powered by a twin turbo 6.2 based hemi. Trans is a 6 speed HGT sequential. All run with standalone by Haltech. That's the clifs notes version lol

Ok, that sounds very cool! offset decoupled 3-link is my favorite. Would definitely be interested to see more about your build!

[sccacuda]

Haha yeah I really need to start a build thread. When I have time I will. The overview is front and rear suspension designed by Ron sutton. Rear is a decoupled offset 3 link. Powered by a twin turbo 6.2 based hemi. Trans is a 6 speed HGT sequential. All run with standalone by Haltech. That's the clifs notes version lol

I hope you have followed the threads on the failure points of the front and rear suspensions of Ron Sutton's designs'?

[Kowalski340]

What are the failure points of Ron Suttons designs? I'm not familiar

[Kowalski340]

I hope you have followed the threads on the failure points of the front and rear suspensions of Ron Sutton's designs'?

What are the failure points of Ron Suttons designs? I'm not familiar. Do you mean legitimate design flaws with the geometry? Or some sort of failure with his in house fabrication?

[sccacuda]

What are the failure points of Ron Suttons designs? I'm not familiar. Do you mean legitimate design flaws with the geometry? Or some sort of failure with his in house fabrication?

Geometry is good, design and construction (I would say engineering, but none was done), not so much. The rear suspension is pretty much the same regardless of which front you have. The passengers side watts attachment will need a reinforcement or it WILL break off (Welds' Mustang). The watt's link structure he supplies flexes up to a 1/4" (GoPro vid of this available from Herb Lump). It will need to be supported around the pivot area. The decoupled three link is unusable as supplied. The lower adjustable connection at the front will break. The decoupled shock valving is completely wrong (Ron Ver Mulm spent a lot of time and money trying to get this thing to work) and your best solution is just to run a conventional 3 - link. The shocks supplied by Ron will need to be revalved as well.

The front, depending on whether you have the one piece or two piece lowers, will both fail. The curved rear link on the two piece design has failed and almost caused a serious accident (Dusold). The one piece lower arms crack at sway bar mount, splitting the arm in two at that point (Oberle's Chevelle). The attachment points on the subframe are poorly designed and WILL crack and break OFF the subframe (Oberle's Chevelle again). Reinforcement of the front control arm bracket as well as addition bracing in the load path is needed to fix this.

Most of this is documented and posted on FB and Lateral G. I have my own build thread that highlights a lot of the problems: https://lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php?t=52748

[Kowalski340]

So I looked at your build thread and that's exactly what I'm building. His track hero front clip is what I am going to be running. The geometry looks to be thw same only it uses self contained high upper shock mounts. This allows for jack screws and there are a few other things I like about thw clip also. Would you reccomend not buying shocks from him? Also I originally went with him for the decoupled 3 link should I not use it? I'm at a loss and don't know where to turn because the goal is to build a somewhat competitive time attack car. And everything out there is geared towards the pro touring market not the race market.

[sccacuda]

Have you already bought the parts and suspension?

[Kowalski340]

No I haven't. My car is at the fab shop now with the front end cut off. After talking to Ron his clip looks perfect from a geometry and set up perspective. Plus the adjustability and tunability looks ideal. I know Ron has recieved a ton of hate but I guess with a lack of other options. Using his front end and having to reinforce the mount points and arms seems like a legit tradeoff

[Kowalski340]

Here's a good question. Any idea who can design me a front clip with racing use as a priority? I'm in florida btw. Here is a random question. Wanna sell me your front clip?

[Pedigry]

PICS or it didn't happen brother! Get that build thread going. We would love to see that machine. Welcome to the site.

[sccacuda]

I know Ron has recieved a ton of hate but I guess with a lack of other options. Using his front end and having to reinforce the mount points and arms seems like a legit tradeoff

This makes absolutely no sense. You're willing to pay good money for something with obvious design flaws, and then willing to spend even more money to correct them. You could buy a Howe clip, it has the same adjustability and is much cheaper, or have something purpose built for you from a reputable shop with actual engineering.

And Ron has received a ton of well deserve hate. He screwed over and ripped off so many people in this community, verified and backed up by prominent members, that even considering purchasing a product from him seems like lunacy.

[Kowalski340]

Geeze bro sorry I didn't know. Bit aggressive. I was just asking questions man. I don't know the guy I just talked to him about a clip. I don't even know anything about the howe clip

[Bjkadron]

Geometry is good, design and construction (I would say engineering, but none was done), not so much. The rear suspension is pretty much the same regardless of which front you have. The passengers side watts attachment will need a reinforcement or it WILL break off (Welds' Mustang). The watt's link structure he supplies flexes up to a 1/4" (GoPro vid of this available from Herb Lump). It will need to be supported around the pivot area. The decoupled three link is unusable as supplied. The lower adjustable connection at the front will break. The decoupled shock valving is completely wrong (Ron Ver Mulm spent a lot of time and money trying to get this thing to work) and your best solution is just to run a conventional 3 - link. The shocks supplied by Ron will need to be revalved as well.

The front, depending on whether you have the one piece or two piece lowers, will both fail. The curved rear link on the two piece design has failed and almost caused a serious accident (Dusold). The one piece lower arms crack at sway bar mount, splitting the arm in two at that point (Oberle's Chevelle). The attachment points on the subframe are poorly designed and WILL crack and break OFF the subframe (Oberle's Chevelle again). Reinforcement of the front control arm bracket as well as addition bracing in the load path is needed to fix this.

Most of this is documented and posted on FB and Lateral G. I have my own build thread that highlights a lot of the problems: https://lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php?t=52748

Wow. I was planning on working out my own designs but this is crazy. Reading your build thread now.

EDIT: Holy crap. Just finished the build thread. That is an amazing car! Sucks you went through all that crap with the "top of the line" pieces you bought. Can't wait to see it finished.