67 Camaro build (C5 suspension and transaxle

[maro67]

Now that the quarters are welded in place just about at every interface (I didn't weld the flange at the drip rail where it ties into the roof skin just yet. Im planning on doing that after the roof skin to quarter panel joint is spot welded.). It was time to move to the rear valence tail panel.

The lower interface between the trunk floor flange and the outer flanges fit up pretty well. Here some shot of the drivers side.

[maro67]

Ditto! Keep the posts and pics coming. I may be in your shoes with my own project... unfortunately.

~Max

Hey man, hope you don't wind up getting stuck with all the delays that I have. It is taking way way way longer than expected. But what can I say, I am determined. Best of luck to you with your project!

[WideOpenThrottle]

Hey man, hope you don't wind up getting stuck with all the delays that I have. It is taking way way way longer than expected. But what can I say, I am determined. Best of luck to you with your project!

Thanks. We shall see. As of now I know the floors need to be replaced from front to back (including the trunk). Not because they are rusted, but because the repairs have been so horrendous over the years. The rear valence is installed wrong and the rear quarters (although new) have been formed to accommodate the incorrectly installed rear valence. Lastly, I see that the the contours around the window glass in the back are wrong and the molding will never fit right... I am not sure what is wrong there, but I am sure one day it will be clear.

Like you I am a determined individual... I have a house project taking up my time right now, but as soon as this is over, full-bore on the Camaro.

~Max

PS - Very nice progress. I like how your getting it done right no matter how long the path.

[maro67]

So the fit between the quarters and the rear valance / tail panel is where I finally had to start doing some actual sheet metal fab. After doing some research it seems like this is a known problem area.

I wound up having to cut a small piece from the rear corner area where the trunk weather strip channel area (where the trunk lid bump stops go) as the bends and channel on the quarter didn't line up with the mating surfaces on the tail panel. I had to move the pieces about a 1/2 inch toward the back of the car. I also had to stretch in the forward aft direction and shrink it in the up and down direction. I did so by cutting and splicing then welding it back together.

Here's the driver side.

[maro67]

Here they are welded in and ground down. I still have some final cleanup to do. But for now I have another issue to fix on the passenger side.

[maro67]

So the last part was'nt to bad once I figured out where to make the cuts. However, the passenger side quarter panel did not line well at all with the tail panel near the tail light opening. It was as if the quarter had a bulge in it making the area where it wraps around at the corner near to the bumper to have a crown in it and stick out past the tail panel. There is also a pretty significant sized gap between the two panels.

[maro67]

First thing I did was address the crown / point on the quarter panel. I decided to cut 2 relief cuts, essentially two really narrow pie cuts. This allowed me to spread the "tab" section that was left in the middle open. This got rid of the "bulge" and simultaneously the step mismatch between the two panels. I just had to keep trimming / filing back the relief cuts until the "tab" sat where I wanted it. I forgot to take any pictures before I spot welded it back up.

Well that its for now. Its beer thirty at the moment!

[maro67]

Well its been a little while. Things got super busy at the end of the year and with the holidays and all. I have been making progress at least. I finished up working the quarter panel to / rear valance interface. All in all it came out pretty good. I ground down the welds and it looks like it is going to work. The quarter is now flush with the valance.

I wound up being able to close the gap a by bending the flanges together more. There is a spot that even with the flanges mated together I had to run a weld bead as the gap between the panels was not consistent. Its kind of tough to tell from the pictures but basically I built up the joint with the weld material that will have to be ground down (I need to pick up a set of grinding burs to get in there and massage it a bit).

It will need some body filler to really detail the seem when all is said and done. The whole thing will be covered by the rear bumper so I am not too worried about it. The main thing is that the gap between the quarter panel and rear valance about the bumper is where it needs to be.Attachment 171618

[maro67]

After spending so much time working on the quarter panels and rear valance I had to get away from the back of the vehicle for a bit. I decided to move my attention to the passenger side A pillar. The passenger side was rough. There were some spots on the upper area of the pillar close to the roof skin that were rusted through. I decided to cut it out and weld in a patch panel that I got from Belden Speed and Engineering. The filler panel worked out really well. You have to do a good amount of trimming to get it to fit your exact application depending especially depending on how much you cut out. Either way I'm happy with how it turned out. Here are some before and after pics.

Attachment 171621

[maro67]

Here it is with the welds ground and some rattle can primer.

[maro67]

Back to the rear of the car. Next up is to address the trunk weather strip gutter and the deck filler panel. I mocked up the trunk, deck filler and rear windshield a couple more times to make sure I get it all lined up before I started welding. While I was able to get all the gaps lined up nice, there were two things I noticed that needed to be fixed.

First the groove / gutter for the weather stripping on the read valance was too tall. It interfered with the trunk lid and caused it to sit up too high in the back. Also, it was too deep for the weather stripping to sit in properly. The second thing I noticed was that the new package tray panel I had installed was too short in the weather stripping gutter. When I laid the deck filler panel in place the gap to install the weather stripping was too small. Also from inside the trunk I could see that the gutter on the package tray did not land on the correct location on the trunk lid. Basically it would place the weather stripping off the sealing surface.

First I addressed the rear valance. I cut the flange off, removed from material and welded it back on. Its a little tough to see in this picture but this shows the flange clamped in place ready for tack welds after I had trimmed some material off.



Here's one with a few tack welds and the side gutters clamped in place.



And here you can see that the weather stripping sits in the gutter correctly. This also fixed the interference condition with the trunk lid and allowed it to seat properly and be flush with the quarter panels.

[maro67]

Next, before I could install the deck filler panel I had to modify the package tray to relocate the weather stripping gutter about 1/4 to 3/8in further aft toward the back of the car. Luckily, the trunk gutter kit I bought had both the side pieces and the upper. I cut the gutter off of the package tray panel and welded in the new gutter piece. I made sure to go inside the trunk with the trunk lid in place and line everything up so that the weather stripping would now land on the correct sealing surface on the trunk when it is closed.

I didn't really get any pictures of the gutter piece mocked up and clamped in place. This picture gives you and idea of about how far back I shifted the gutter. For reference the 3 holes in the package tray panel were originally round. When I had lined everything up they were "snow manned" or looked like "8's" so I decided to trim them out to be oval shaped. You will never see it unless your lying down in the trunk once the deck filler is installed but it was bugging me.

[maro67]

Here's how she sits now with the deck filler installed. Next up will be to weld the side gutter pieces I also bought a new pair of the quarter panel / trunk filler reinforcements. I'll show some pictures of how I locate and install them. I'm planning to spend some time on it this week. Hoping to get this all wrapped up and install the trunk hinges as they tie into the inner wheel wells and add some strength to the rear structure of the car.

[maro67]

I really can't wait to finish up the sheet metal fab on the back of the car. Once this is complete, I will be moving onto mocking up the front sub frame and C4 suspension. Here is a teaser. I am going to be using a set of staggered C5 Z06 replica wheels (17 x 9 fronts and 18 x 10.5 rear). My goal is to run 275's up front and 295's out back.

[lUWI67]

Really enjoying your build, particularly the sheet metal work. I know it's hard to remember to take pics when your on a roll so you are doing an awesome job. I'm learning a lot about what my 67 looks like underneath the outer panels. Thanks.

Do you remember what brand package tray you used?

[maro67]

Really enjoying your build, particularly the sheet metal work. I know it's hard to remember to take pics when your on a roll so you are doing an awesome job. I'm learning a lot about what my 67 looks like underneath the outer panels. Thanks.

Do you remember what brand package tray you used?

Hey man, thanks for the encouraging words. Not sure off hand what brand the package tray was. There may still be a sticker on the underside. I'll check next time I'm working on it.

Unfortunately I'm going to have to clime back into the trunk yet again, literally. Over this past weekend I wrapped up the weather stripping gutter side pieces and got the trunk hinges welded in place. I had located the trunk deck lid best fitting the gaps on all sides. Then I taped it in place. I made sure to use allot of tape so it wouldn't shift on me. Then I climbed into the trunk and located the hinges.

To locate the hinges, first thing I did was bolt the arms to the trunk. I did my best to center them. Then with the arms bolted to the deck lid, I clamped the upper halves to the deck filler panel flanges where they spot weld. It all seemed to be working out. I got everything tacked in place. Then I got out of the car and went to open the trunk.

Long story short, either I was off when I placed the drivers side hinge or it moved on me. The driver side hinge is located about .25" too far forward and the arm rubs the trunk gutter in 2 places when I open and close the trunk. It also isn't allowing the deck lid to sit properly when I close the trunk.

I'm gonna be out of town this weekend but I'll post up some pics when I get back to it.

[maro67]

Really enjoying your build, particularly the sheet metal work. I know it's hard to remember to take pics when your on a roll so you are doing an awesome job. I'm learning a lot about what my 67 looks like underneath the outer panels. Thanks.

Do you remember what brand package tray you used?

It looks like it was a Goodmark (p/n: 4020-712-67).

[maro67]

Update time.

Fortunately I had only tack welded the trunk hinges in place so it wasn't too difficult removing the driver side hinge to relocate it. This time around I taped the trunk weather stripping in place when I located the deck lid. It seemed to help locate it and hold it in place. No more rubbing and it opens and closes as it should.

I didn't get any pictures of of the actual hinges installed, but here are a few of the trunk deck lid installed. All things considered it line up pretty well. There is a bit of a crown in the trunk lid. From what I gather this is a pretty common with the after market deck lids. Its kind of tough to tell but you can see how the corners kind of "dive in" a bit at the forward end of the lid. It's also a bit high in the center on the forward edge. I'm going to wait until the car is on the frame and suspension as a roller to do anything about it. My plan is to get the car back to being a roller and then gap it.Attachment 172899

[maro67]

At this point I am just about done will all of the sheet metal work for the time being. There are a few minor items that need to be buttoned up but I am going to finish everything up once the body is on the suspension and wheels and back on the ground. I want to have it back as a roller and under its own weight to gap all the panels. Honestly I kind of need a break from the sheet metal fab for a little bit too.

Next up is to start mocking up the frame and suspension. I am going to do the front end first. I am using suspension and steering from a C4 Corvette. I have the front subframe / k-member and the complete suspension with steering rack from a 88-96 vette. The nice thing about this setup is that the stock track width of the C4 fits the front fenders of the 67 Camaro really good with no modifications and also allows the use of oem size / replica wheels. I really like the idea of being able to use oem components. It goes a long way in keeping the cost down and making things easily serviceable.

Will this be the best setup out there, no. There are better systems available in the aftermarket these days for sure. I really like the stuff that Speedway Motors has come out with in the past few years with their G-Comp product line. But at the end of the day the $$ start adding up big time when you go full aftermarket. Plus I really want to do the fab work myself. I am all in for a "Hotrod" style build, using parts from multiple different vehicles and platforms and putting them together to make something that is unique and works.

The car will be 80 - 90% street driven. I will most likely make a track day once or twice year. I happen to live fairly close to New Jersey Motorsports park and hope do get some HPDE days in every once in a while. That all being said, It is gonna be more street car than track car and even when on the track it will be more spirited driving than going all out.

[maro67]

First off, front frame. I ditched the stock front frame years ago when I did the initial tear down of the car. It was one of the things I was able to sell and recoup some of the cost. I had bought the car for $2k. It had a lot of old drag race parts on it. When all was said and done, after everything I had sold, I almost broke even on the price of the car.

I considered quite a few different options for front frame rails (e.g. miter cut and welding rectangle tube like the hot rodders, have a chassis shop mandrel bend square tube rails to my specs, etc.). I wound up coming across a set of universal frame rails on ebay that I decided to take a chance on. I purchased a set of mandrel bent 2 x 3 tube mild steel frame rails from a place called Johnny Law motors. They are intended for 1st gen F-bodys and Novas. They have mounting tabs for the body mounts and the radiator core support already welded on. I got them for $280 shipped. I figured at that price what the hell. I might as well role the dice. FYI, they are available on ebay right now for $260.

I must say I am pleased with the product that I received, especially for the price. While these bolt up to the body, keep in mind they are by no means a "bolt on" application. These are merely just the front frame rails and will require fab to make them work. They are advertised as 10 gauge material thickness. I measured the wall thickness at the rear most "cut" end, where I could get to it with a pair of calipers. The measurements I took were all approx .140in which would be 10ga. Interestingly all of the mounting tabs looks to be made from 3/16" material. While I would have preferred 2x4 vs. 2x3, I do feel that these are pretty stout and will serve as a good foundation.

I am not the biggest fan of the mounting tabs. They place the rails very far inboard and come drilled for solid mounts. However there are 2 advantages this yields for my application. One, it provides clearance for wide tires up front. I plan to run 275's. Two, it places the inner surface of the rails very close to the mounting locations on the oem C4 k-member which will make the fabrication very easy.

Here are some pics of the rails mocked up for the time being.