Optima Events Are Fun But,

[Rod]

We definitely need more cars in Cam S, I hope they allow C4 Corvettes

Dave - I hope that SCCA allows the C4 and newer Corvettes to run in CAM next year.

why?

[analyte]

In all fairness to the driver's in the CAM-T and CAM-C the C4 and newer Corvettes do not belong in those classes. I believe the C4 and newer Corvettes would be appropriately classed in CAM-S since the Corvette is a 2-seater car. I know that we will get our butts handed to us by the Cobra, we'll just have to drive faster. But, it will be fun trying to beat the Cobra. It would be nice that the C4 and newer Corvettes have their own class but, I don't think that a fourth class is justified. The CAM- S class is under subscribed and the C4 and newer Corvettes would resolve that problem.

The CAM program was developed to attract the Pro-Touring prepared vehicles to the SCCA. A fully prepared Pro-Touring car does not legally fit in any of the non-CAM class in SCCA so that is why us Corvette owners that have Pro-Touring prepared car are asking for a place to play in CAM. The thought his why not allow the C4 and newer Corvettes run in CAM. The SCCA is allowing the newer Mustangs and Camaros to run. The SCCA is allowing the GTO and a 4Door new Chevrolet SS to run in CAM, so why not the Corvettes.

Kenny, thanks for the reply. I guess I've been lucky that I never looked to the SCCA prior to the origination of CAM. I agree the non-CAM class rules are confusing and sometimes odd from my perspective.

Kerry

[nokones]

We definitely need more cars in Cam S, I hope they allow C4 Corvettes

Dave - I hope that SCCA allows the C4 and newer Corvettes to run in CAM next year.

why?

Why should they be the only ones excluded?

[nokones]

Kerry - Yes, SCCA prep rules do not make sense most of the time. For an example, in Street Prepared, the rules will not allow you to bolt-in an aftermarket rear diff in order to have a better position but, the rules will allow you to weld the spider gears. I played that game for over a couple decades and I got tired of the rules. Even the rules in Street Modified are limiting. In Street Modified you can build a motor with a lot of horsepower but, the rules will not allow you to use an aftermarket block. Why would anyone would want to build a 600 horsepower motor with an OEM cast iron block.

[Rod]

Why should they be the only ones excluded?

again my question was why should they be allowed?



a stock 3000 lb, anti lock traction controlled, 50/50 balance, independent suspension, 400hp, 98inch wheel base car thats a descendant of a race car, should not be in the same class as a 3500 lb, non-electronic, 59/41 108+ wheel base, stick axle, sedan.....we have seen it at the optima events its just becoming a c5 series and even they are revamping rules....if you want to race CAM you can purchase any number of cars, Nova, Camaro(new or old), Chevelle, Grand national, Monte Carlo, firebird, even a early vette!!1,2, or c3... all great cars

[bishir]

again my question was why should they be allowed?



a stock 3000 lb, anti lock traction controlled, 50/50 balance, independent suspension, 400hp, 98inch wheel base car thats a descendant of a race car, should not be in the same class as a 3500 lb, non-electronic, 59/41 108+ wheel base, stick axle, sedan.....we have seen it at the optima events its just becoming a c5 series and even they are revamping rules....if you want to race CAM you can purchase any number of cars, Nova, Camaro(new or old), Chevelle, Grand national, Monte Carlo, firebird, even a early vette!!1,2, or c3... all great cars

I thought they weren't allowed because the gold necklaces were becoming a safety hazard. ;) yuk yuk

[GrabberGT]

again my question was why should they be allowed?



a stock 3000 lb, anti lock traction controlled, 50/50 balance, independent suspension, 400hp, 98inch wheel base car thats a descendant of a race car, should not be in the same class as a 3500 lb, non-electronic, 59/41 108+ wheel base, stick axle, sedan.....we have seen it at the optima events its just becoming a c5 series and even they are revamping rules....if you want to race CAM you can purchase any number of cars, Nova, Camaro(new or old), Chevelle, Grand national, Monte Carlo, firebird, even a early vette!!1,2, or c3... all great cars

I'd hate to water down classes any more than they already are but what about kicking the modern guys out of CAM altogether. Think about it... a 2015 Mustang racing in CLASSIC American Muscle. I think they should give them their own moniker and call it MAM (Modern). They can have MAM and MAM-S. MAM would be all later model American Muscle cars and MAM-S would be all Modern American Muscle Sports cars including Vipers, Modern Kit Cars (SLC), Vettes (C4 and up possibly?) In the end, you are only adding one class to the American Muscle field.

[Rod]

I'd hate to water down classes any more than they already are but what about kicking the modern guys out of CAM altogether. Think about it... a 2015 Mustang racing in CLASSIC American Muscle. I think they should give them their own moniker and call it MAM (Modern). They can have MAM and MAM-S. MAM would be all later model American Muscle cars and MAM-S would be all Modern American Muscle Sports cars including Vipers, Modern Kit Cars (SLC), Vettes (C4 and up possibly?) In the end, you are only adding one class to the American Muscle field.

I think they are trying to smooth it out there is
CAM-T for traditional, 1st and 2nd gen camaro, 1st and 2nd gen nova, Chevelles, elco's, Mavericks, vegas, 1st-2nd gen mustangs, firebirds...so on
CAM-C for Conventional thats those fox body and newer mustangs, Monte's, Regal's, 3rd-4th-5th gen camaros, ect.. and
CAM-S for Sport for 2 seat sports cars that allows 1st-2nd-3rd gen Corvettes, Cobras, Pontiac solstices, and some others

[nokones]

Why should they be the only ones excluded?

again my question was why should they be allowed?


a stock 3000 lb, anti lock traction controlled, 50/50 balance, independent suspension, 400hp, 98inch wheel base car thats a descendant of a race car, should not be in the same class as a 3500 lb, non-electronic, 59/41 108+ wheel base, stick axle, sedan.....we have seen it at the optima events its just becoming a c5 series and even they are revamping rules....if you want to race CAM you can purchase any number of cars, Nova, Camaro(new or old), Chevelle, Grand national, Monte Carlo, firebird, even a early vette!!1,2, or c3... all great cars

I totally agree with you, the C4 and newer Corvettes should not be in the same CAM class with the Novas, Chevrolet, More Carlos, etc. The C4 and newer Corvettes should be in CAM-S with the Cobra or in a new class with other alike cars such as the Vipers. I never intended that the C4 and newer Corvettes should compete with the older Muscle cars.

[nokones]

again my question was why should they be allowed?



a stock 3000 lb, anti lock traction controlled, 50/50 balance, independent suspension, 400hp, 98inch wheel base car thats a descendant of a race car, should not be in the same class as a 3500 lb, non-electronic, 59/41 108+ wheel base, stick axle, sedan.....we have seen it at the optima events its just becoming a c5 series and even they are revamping rules....if you want to race CAM you can purchase any number of cars, Nova, Camaro(new or old), Chevelle, Grand national, Monte Carlo, firebird, even a early vette!!1,2, or c3... all great cars

I thought they weren't allowed because the gold necklaces were becoming a safety hazard. ;) yuk yuk

That is so Porsche Club stuff.

[nokones]

again my question was why should they be allowed?



a stock 3000 lb, anti lock traction controlled, 50/50 balance, independent suspension, 400hp, 98inch wheel base car thats a descendant of a race car, should not be in the same class as a 3500 lb, non-electronic, 59/41 108+ wheel base, stick axle, sedan.....we have seen it at the optima events its just becoming a c5 series and even they are revamping rules....if you want to race CAM you can purchase any number of cars, Nova, Camaro(new or old), Chevelle, Grand national, Monte Carlo, firebird, even a early vette!!1,2, or c3... all great cars

I'd hate to water down classes any more than they already are but what about kicking the modern guys out of CAM altogether. Think about it... a 2015 Mustang racing in CLASSIC American Muscle. I think they should give them their own moniker and call it MAM (Modern). They can have MAM and MAM-S. MAM would be all later model American Muscle cars and MAM-S would be all Modern American Muscle Sports cars including Vipers, Modern Kit Cars (SLC), Vettes (C4 and up possibly?) In the end, you are only adding one class to the American Muscle field.

Very good point. I'm OK with it.

[GrabberGT]

That is so Porsche Club stuff.

The local Porshe Club is known as the Maverick Region. Imagine their surprise when I told them I wanted to join. LOL

[bryant]

A Maverick has to run with a Cobra. Their Cobra only class only has had one to three cars at each one of their CAM events.

hey i resemble that remark!

I'd hate to water down classes any more than they already are but what about kicking the modern guys out of CAM altogether. Think about it... a 2015 Mustang racing in CLASSIC American Muscle. I think they should give them their own moniker and call it MAM (Modern). They can have MAM and MAM-S. MAM would be all later model American Muscle cars and MAM-S would be all Modern American Muscle Sports cars including Vipers, Modern Kit Cars (SLC), Vettes (C4 and up possibly?) In the end, you are only adding one class to the American Muscle field.

ive wondered about the new cars running in a class called classic. the MAM thing makes sense.

I think they are trying to smooth it out there is
CAM-T for traditional, 1st and 2nd gen camaro, 1st and 2nd gen nova, Chevelles, elco's, Mavericks, vegas, 1st-2nd gen mustangs, firebirds...so on
CAM-C for Conventional thats those fox body and newer mustangs, Monte's, Regal's, 3rd-4th-5th gen camaros, ect.. and
CAM-S for Sport for 2 seat sports cars that allows 1st-2nd-3rd gen Corvettes, Cobras, Pontiac solstices, and some others

the wheel base limit in cam t pushes mavericks and vegas into cam-s. it also puts mustang IIs into cam-s. or are these previews for next years rules?

we do have in san diego the option to buy fun runs at the end of the event if time permits.

[nokones]

The local Porshe Club is known as the Maverick Region. Imagine their surprise when I told them I wanted to join. LOL

Chris - I bet you forgot to hold your Porsche Key Fob in your hand when you approached them about joining. That might have been why they said no. Its the secret handshake thing you failed at.

Believe it or not, I was a Porsche Club member for over 20 years and I use to drive one of my Corvettes when I went on a Porsche Club tour. They were cool with it. I belonged to both a Corvette Club and the Porsche Club at the same time.

[IndyDave]

CAM (Classic American Muscle) refers to the type or style of car, not it's age. American made, Front engine'd, rear wheel drive, large / powerful engines in lighter bodies. When CAM was introduced, it was a single class but we quickly realized that perceptions affect reality and that some stayed away because of perceptions concerning late model muscle cars and Corvettes. So, CAM became a category with three classes and we kicked the late model Corvettes and Vipers out to help build the class. The rules and classings aren't perfect but we continue to work on it. The thing is at last weekend's CAM East, the three class finalists in the shootout had run within tenths of one another all weekend. So in reality, the top T, C, and S cars are equal. At it's core, CAM is a hot-rodder's category and competitors are free to make their cars faster and better how they see fit, not according to a set of over-analyzed rule set that is typical SCCA.

[rustomatic]

CAM is fun, and I think it's added a lot of better feeling (hope for competition) for a lot more drivers. That said, I never had any hope of competing with Mary Pozzi in the last iteration of my Falcon, but it was fun to see her car fly while I managed cones (American Autocross Series in Marina, CA). At the same time, I thought it was hysterical how competitive guys in late-model Mustangs and C5s (where'd the C4s go?) were getting with me at the last SCCA event I did. I'd just shown up for fun, and was finally allowed to not run in CP--at any rate, I just go to autocrosses for fun, and to see if the dumb stuff I've done to my car had a positive effect . . .

[hotrodalex]

I still maintain that CAM T actually stands for CAM Truck and since I was the only "truck" at the CAM Challenge, I must have won the whole thing.

[Rod]

I still maintain that CAM T actually stands for CAM Truck and since I was the only "truck" at the CAM Challenge, I must have won the whole thing.

yep...agreed...

[SSLance]

CAM (Classic American Muscle) refers to the type or style of car, not it's age. American made, Front engine'd, rear wheel drive, large / powerful engines in lighter bodies. When CAM was introduced, it was a single class but we quickly realized that perceptions affect reality and that some stayed away because of perceptions concerning late model muscle cars and Corvettes. So, CAM became a category with three classes and we kicked the late model Corvettes and Vipers out to help build the class. The rules and classings aren't perfect but we continue to work on it. The thing is at last weekend's CAM East, the three class finalists in the shootout had run within tenths of one another all weekend. So in reality, the top T, C, and S cars are equal. At it's core, CAM is a hot-rodder's category and competitors are free to make their cars faster and better how they see fit, not according to a set of over-analyzed rule set that is typical SCCA.

I just hope you all are looking at the rest of the field as well when analysing the results. ie: How did a car 10% off of the pace in C compare to a car 10% off of the pace in T? Or how did the the cars with 275 and smaller front tires compare against those with larger than 275s up front?

The field at CAM East clearly showed that there are some that are willing to do anything to their CAM cars to get faster, but there are a lot more owners that aren't as willing to cut their CAM cars up in the name of speed nor buy off the shelf new hot rods. That is the group that needs to be enticed to keep coming back in my opinion. Those are also the ones that did NOT have a place to race in the SCCA before CAM was started.

To me, the 3 classes should be geared towards the off the shelf hot rods, the older hot rods on smaller tires, and the unlimiteds...

Speed wise, the off the shelf cars have shown they can run right with the unlimiteds...but that just doesn't look right to me.

[Rod]

unlimited s... .

whats an unlimited? sorry I'm stupid