51' Chevy 3100 build ideas

[TimsTruck]

First Post here so, Hello! Starting a new project that my late father never got to finish. 1951 Chevrolet 3100 5 window truck. The further we get into planning the more I like the idea of a Pro-Touring inspired truck. Pretty much decided on frame and engine/trans and even have a donor truck for the LS swap. Still stuck on rear end and suspension. Heres what we have so far.

Engine: 2006 6.0L LQ9 (VortecMAX donor) w/ C5 manifolds
Trans: 2006 4L65E (donor trans)
Frame: Original 51' - boxed
Front: IFS/Mustang II: still deciding between Scotts IFS /Heidts Mustang II /TCI ??
Rear: ??? Ford 8.8?, Chevrolet 8.5?, Spring kit?, 4 bar/link?

Ive seen some recent builds going all Corvette, which makes me curious.

General thoughts...suggestions? Input is needed at this stage. THANKS!

[Peter Mc Mahon]

Welcome, Sounds like a good build. If I was doing it over [and I probably will] I would not go MII. Way better options out there, just do a search here and start reading.

[scottshotrods]

For your truck we have complete front and rear suspension kits.We also have complete chassis for your truck to as a option.If you are after a coil-over ifs or a ifs with bags we got you covered.For the rear of your truck.I would go with our 4-bar set up and again we have these with coil-overs or bags your choice there to.For a Rearend I would go with a Ford 9 inch out back.Let us know if you have any questions at all.You can call us or e-mail us at [email protected] or (805)485-0382

[brawls43]

Depends on how pro-touring you want to go and how you plan to drive it. Seems like you see a lot about the trucks running No Limit suspension if you're going to run autocross or track events. I had originally wanted to go that route, but decided my 50 F-1 wasn't going to be a track machine, just the street. C4 or C5 parts give you lots of options for replacement parts. Its a tough choice, but hard to make a wrong one. It'll be fun to drive whatever you pick based on the route you're taking.

[TimsTruck]

Welcome, Sounds like a good build. If I was doing it over [and I probably will] I would not go MII. Way better options out there, just do a search here and start reading.

Arent most IFS kits built pretty much off Mustang II geometry? Maybe a bit different...but better? If so, how?

For your truck we have complete front and rear suspension kits.We also have complete chassis for your truck to as a option.If you are after a coil-over ifs or a ifs with bags we got you covered.For the rear of your truck.I would go with our 4-bar set up and again we have these with coil-overs or bags your choice there to.For a Rearend I would go with a Ford 9 inch out back.Let us know if you have any questions at all.You can call us or e-mail us at [email protected] or (805)485-0382

Looking hard at your stuff and like what I see. Were going coil-overs. My trans guy is suggesting that I stick with a 4.10 geared rear to match the 4L65E. Don't know how that will translate to the wheels with this chassis. Guess I can build a ford 9 with 4.10 gears.

Depends on how pro-touring you want to go and how you plan to drive it. Seems like you see a lot about the trucks running No Limit suspension if you're going to run autocross or track events. I had originally wanted to go that route, but decided my 50 F-1 wasn't going to be a track machine, just the street. C4 or C5 parts give you lots of options for replacement parts. Its a tough choice, but hard to make a wrong one. It'll be fun to drive whatever you pick based on the route you're taking.

I would say were less than purist on this build. Coming from a family with a history of auto-cross rides its very tempting to go "balls out" but I think at this moment the function is going more towards performance driver/cruiser and less towards a pure track truck.

[rjsjea]

I bought and IFS and rear 4 bar from Scott's recently for a wagon project I'm building. Very pleased with the product and excellent customer service.

[brawls43]

I think Peter is referring to how some IFS kits now use C4 or C5 parts. If you do plan to autocross, it might be worth checking out those kits. I've read the Mustang II parts aren't the best for performance on the track. I think they lack some of the desired adjust-ability for alignment, along with performance of things like bump steer. But I'm no suspension guru, there are other guys on the board with more info on that. The Roadster shop has an interesting looking IFS kit, but the No Limit suspension seems to perform well on the track. The owner Rob is on the forum, might be able to find him in another thread. Or the Ron guy who wrote the sticky thread about setting up suspension. Lots of choices. For your rear end, you could always do a Ford 8.8, one of the Rangers came with 4.10s I think, with big axles too. Not sure how rare those are. I used a Crown Vic rear with a limited slip, and 3.55's. I had wanted the 3.73's and had that axle from an Explorer, but it was too narrow for me.

[Tincup]

I bought and IFS and rear 4 bar from Scott's recently for a wagon project I'm building. Very pleased with the product and excellent customer service.

Hey RJ, what happened to your Demon?

[bmbrzmn101]

My 14 year old son and I are also building a 51 Chevy 5 window pickup. We went with No Limit engineeriing front and rear coilover suspension. I have not had alot of time to work on it in the last few months due to crazy work schedules, but I have it tacked in. The quality of Rob's product is superb. Just another option out there for you to look into.

Chris

[TimsTruck]

I hear guys who choose the IFS route talk about adjust-ability in hindsight. Of course quality parts and materials is important but function is high on my list as well. Ease of adjusting and not having to re-adjust and align often is a big plus. Any setups stand out in this way? Shim adjustment better?

bmbrzmn101, what rear suspension have you and your son went with?

[bmbrzmn101]

Tim, we used No Limit front suspensin for the 47-55 truck and the rear fat bar suspension from No Limit for the 47-55. They are well built and enginnered pcs. 4 corner coil overs that are ride tech single adjustable. As you build the truck, you set the ride hieght you desire and weld it in. I recommend if the truck is together makes copious measurements of ride height andstock , then remove the wheels and adjust the truck to the desired ride hieght and make more measurements. you can then determine if you will need to c notch the rear frame for down low or not. We did not as the truck will be low but not scraping the weeds. The instructions and video that come with the suspension explain in more detail. We are very happy with No Limit products and service. And a huge bonus was when I called to inquire about the suspension and options I was handed off to Rob himself to answer the details. Now I am not sating he has the oppurtunity to talk to everyone, just my lucky day I guess, but he took the time to explain what to expect and what we would receive and any question I could think of. He and his staff handle my questions and order very quickly and as you can tell I will recommend their product. Now if I could steal some time to work on the project, it would progress more quickly. Call No Limit, they can answer your questions better than me, but the design and appearance, along with the adjustability I require are there.

Chris

[hotrod56]

Another + for NoLimit. Rob knows and will gladly share his knowledge with you.

I have talked to a lot of guys that make me feel like I am being sold. Rob does not make you feel that way. He walks the talk and wins races. That is how I am sold.

[TimsTruck]

We have pretty much narrowed down our our 51' in the chassis dept to an IFS and 4-link rear coilover setup.

Were sticking with the original frame and i would like the least amount of alteration to it as possible.

1. We have narrowed our choices down to TCI Coil-over IFS and coil-over 4 link rear or NO LIMIT Road Glide IFS coil-over and Fat-bar 4 link rear coilover. Any general opinion on pros/cons to either? Adjustablility?

2. How low can we get with a 4 link rear without altering/notching the frame?

3. I see 4 links setup inside and outside the frame....some bolt in and some weld in. Any option more desireable than the rest?

[Smittys]

I run the No-limit Stuff on my truck. There are many things to consider when making your decision.

Rear End.
TRUE TRAC. Trucks are really hard on posi units. I have tore up 7 I have yet to tear up a True Trac.
4-link You want on the outside of the rails wider the better. The No-limit Fat bar has multiple adjustment hole to set up instant center. It also uses a long pan hard bar.

Front End.
Mustang II based stuff usually has horrible geometry.
Corvette stuff is tuff to setup in a truck it was not designed for a high roll center vehicle that uses more suspension travel.

Wide Ride from No-Limit has very good Bump Steer, Antidive, Ackerman angle, camber gain and Caster adjustment. With ridetech shocks and all the good info from me and Rob you can make your truck ride and handle great.

There is little doubt what I would run.
The proof is in the results.

I can help you in any part of your build just give me a Call

Smitty

[Sales-TCI-Eng]

Check out Magnaflow's Revolver project for ride height pics with our Custom IFS(read not MII based) and 4-Link rear. http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=548081

Granted that was with our frame but ride height is the same with the stock frame.

The basic geometry on the Custom IFS is very similar to what you would find on our Camaro, Nova P/T, Mustang IFS etc. The spindles are the same but each has their own rules as far as track width, bump steer, camber gain and the rest of the alphabet soup. We also make all the hard parts in house and we only use Moog ball joints in all of our control arms.

FWIW: We don't advertise it but we can do a Torque Arm if you don't mind doing a little fabrication. We call those a "Jason Order" around the shop.

-J

[RobNoLimit]

Well I'm going to step in here. I just hope I don't step in 'it'.
Thanks for all of the support and kind words about our products, it makes us feel like all the extra effort pays off. Chris is right about to our WideRide, that is not MII (Mustang II) based, but our WideRides have a 60.5" track width , at the smallest, so we don't build a WideRide for the AD chev (47-54) The AD had a 58.7" track width from the factory, and the frame is narrow in the front. Our AirGlide/RoadGlide IFS is designed to fit these chassis and has a 58.5" track width, and, here it is, IS based on MII components. BTW, stock MII track width is 56 1/2"
Now for the 'it'. If it walks like a Duck........ Get it? They can all say what they want, if you start with a MII, Fox or T-Bird rack, and use a spindle that is a close clone of a MII, you have built a MII based IFS. (Please send hate mail to Hamas, they seam to like the hate) This is my honest opinion, take it for what it's worth. A symetrical IFS has 9 mounting points per side, the rack and spindle will pre-determind 5 points in relation each other. - That's a majority. Does that make them bad? No. MII's have bigger bearings and a stronger spindle design than Camaro's and A body's. The racks (Fox and T-Bird) respond well even with wide 18" or 20" wheels. What makes the difference is the design and geometry and it's fit to the application.
So, Tim, it looks like you have a solid plan forming, and that may be the most important part of success. Work the plan. Here comes the sell. Our RoadGlide IS a MII based IFS, we make longer and wider A-arms to widen the track 1" per side and to keep the lower arms stable. The Tie rod is also longer to keep the steering geometry and bump steer in check. Acreman is a big deal to us, because thats what makes the inside wheel turn in faster than the outside wheel. Our 58.5 track RoadGlide is set to 0 at 112" wheelbase. Very close to your AD trucks 114" WB. (our 56.5 track RoadGlide, most common for earlier cars is set to 0 at 108" WB). Next we add in more antidive than an OE MII, Trucks have a higher CG so this is important to adjust. Also we use shims to align, not slots, so once it's aligned it stays there. When you increase the antidive, this also increases caster gain, which is a good thing. And while we're talking about caster, we like it. Our Roadglide is designed to run 6* to 7* of static caster, this adds high speed stability and helps with 'turn-in' (think BMW). We use a 5" stroke coil-over and 12" spring. The longer shock and spring allow for more static spring pre-load at RH, and that makes a smoother ride. We do make our own spindle, sort of a hybrid. It is MII geometry on the suspension side, and GM Metric spec on the brake side. The caliper mount (with the OE style load fingers) is forged into the spindle body, so there is no bolt-on caliper mount. The rotors and calipers use all GM OE spec bearings seals and pads. - no spacers or bearing swaps. If you want larger brakes, we swap to the Wilwood Pro spindle, YES still MII based, and use any of their bolt-on brake kits for that spindle. The IFS will drop your truck appx 6" from OE with a 26" ft tire. A small notch (included) is required on the frame bottom for rack clearance.
I hope this helps - If you have any questions plaese ask, I'll watch the thread. Thanks again, Rob

P.S> Here's another myth busted. The '0' Bumpsteer myth. Stack that one next to the Unicorn. Bumpsteer can be minimized and managed, but not eliminated. We like to build our IFS kits with a very slight bump-out, both in compression and in droop from the static ride height. (very close to 0 within 1" up or down) This adds toe out in hard cornering and helps to eliminate understeer.

[Sales-TCI-Eng]

No hard feelings from me/us Rob. I've been doing this whole MII vs. Custom IFS thing on the Vintage Mustangs forum for 3 years now. One of the first articles ever done on our Mustang IFS was published as saying it was an MII in error. We're still to this day trying to combat something Dave Pozzi posted 6-7 years ago about our Camaro front clip as well, he called it a Hot Rod front end. One of the guys around here even said the DSE stuff looked like MII. In some peoples eyes, if it is an IFS it must be based on a MII. There are three major differences between the MII and our Custom IFS spindle, Kingpin inclination(CIFS has more so the UCA can be shorter), Height(CIFS is taller for more camber gain) and removable steering arms(easier to control ackerman and bump steer - Plus we can use that spindle on early cars in a rear steer application).

FWIW: We do offer a MII front end in addition to the Custom IFS.

-J

[FRENCHBLUE72]

Rob you have so much info thanks for sharing it with us.. Tims truck did you decide?