Looking for Good front end alignment tools for the home mechanic...

[anarchy99]

Hey guys, I've been looking a lot lately at front end alignment tools and I think I'm ready to bite the bullet and get the stuff I need to properly setup toe caster and camber settings. Does anyone have any recommendations on which tools I should look into? I'm sorry if this is in the wrong forum. I own quite a few cars now so I think actually buying the tools will be more beneficial since roughly every shop I drive my sprite to says no go, too low to the ground.

[bret]

Heres what we use...http://www.ridetech.com/store/quickt...-22-wheel.html

[parsonsj]

I use the Smart Racing stuff:

http://www.smartracingproducts.com

[rustomatic]

Old school: Get yourself a short level and some large steel plates (or sections of plywood), and some brightly colored string (I have pink) for setting toe.

[dontlifttoshift]

For those using at home methods, have you ever checked them against the laser machines at the alignment shop?

Brett, that looks pretty slick.

[parsonsj]

I do. Especially to double-check my toe settings.



I set up my car at about 2.3* front camber, 7.8* caster, front toe (out) at 1/8", rear camber 1.7*, rear toe (in) at 1/8".

I'll report back with how that agrees with the alignment shop.

[anarchy99]

I looked at the smart string stuff but with the with the way we setup the sprites front end, I'm not sure it would work since it's a flip forward front end and I was worried about the bar in the front hitting stuff. I ended up getting the quick trick dual setup that works on 13 inch wheels. It has 2 gauges so I can do both sides if needed.

[dontlifttoshift]

John, Please report back with the results. I see you found Rivals.

I have used every alignment guy within a 1/2 hour drive and it always requires one of two things. Babysitting the alignment guy or arguing with him, some are better than others but I am tired of it.

[rickpaw]

Babysitting the alignment guy or arguing with him, some are better than others but I am tired of it.

This. That's why I bought my own alignment tools (SPC fast trak and HotRod Transformation's toe plates). What I'm missing are the turn tables.

[SSLance]

I do. Especially to double-check my toe settings.



I set up my car at about 2.3* front camber, 7.8* caster, front toe (out) at 1/8", rear camber 1.7*, rear toe (in) at 1/8".

I'll report back with how that agrees with the alignment shop.

How did the folded up trash bag work as a slip plate?

[rchaskin]

A 3ft long length of wax paper folded a few times and put under the front tires is slick as glass.

[rickpaw]

A 3ft long length of wax paper folded a few times and put under the front tires is slick as glass.

Thanks for the tips. I've used junk mail sale flyers, but the wax paper idea is much better.

[83hurstguy]

John, Please report back with the results. I see you found Rivals.

I have used every alignment guy within a 1/2 hour drive and it always requires one of two things. Babysitting the alignment guy or arguing with him, some are better than others but I am tired of it.

Share your frustration there. I've used some John Bean machines in the past... the biggest problem with that equipment was that it wasn't setup for custom applications, and was a pain to work with for it. Most techs are just taught to look up "year, make, model", which provides them the settings from the software, then turn wrenches until it all goes green. When we were doing chassis testing at the proving grounds and the machines were giving us fits, the first thing to come back out was the old bubble gauges.

On my car, I found some minor frame damage due to crash damage from a previous owner, brought it in to get frame horn tweaked less than an inch (to align bumper better). Rather than just check the alignment when done, the shop "did me a favor and took most of that caster out of there." Argh!

I'm down to deciding between the smart camber and quick trick alignment tools. There are a few sellers on eBay that sells turn plates for $200, it's nice to have the angle gauge on there for measuring sweep angle while checking caster. Debating if those are worth the $200 as well.

[parsonsj]

Yes, the garbage bags work as sliding plates, both to settle the suspension when the car is lowered back to ride height, and for measuring caster. I was able to set everything to where I wanted it. Now it's off to the local alignment place (to check my work) to argue and/or babysit the alignment guy, as Donny said.

I'll report back on my accuracy: I think I'm at 2.3/2.4 static camber up front, along with 7.5 to 8.0 caster, and .125 total toe out. In the back I'm at 1.6/1.7 camber and .125 total toe in.

Donny: the Rivals for the front were never the problem: it's the ones in the back I couldn't find. I finally managed to get a pair of used ones that do hold air. We'll see how the car does in a couple of weeks.

[anarchy99]

Every shop I drove to with my eyeball alignment said they loved the car but couldn't align it for 1 reason or another, even though it's basically the simplest setup ever. With having several vehicles that I need to align, buying the tools and learning the tricks of the trade seemed like a no brainer. Maybe I'll get good enough to be able to spread the word to buddies and hook them up for beer. we'll see. I love the wax paper, trash bag idea, so simple.

[bret]

The issue is to find an alignment guy who is smarter than the equipment they are working with. VERY difficult.

Alignment is NOT rocket science. The worst you can do is screw it up. The absolute worst you can do is feather a set of front tires. All fixable. If the car drives nice and doesn't wear the tires you are good. You can then sneak up on the little tricks that might make you .001 faster in an autocross.

I ran across a guy last year at RTTH in Pigeon Forge with an early camaro with an aftermarket subframe. It pushed like a dump truck. He "just had his alignment guy look at it" right before he came to the event, but it was VERY obvious that he had a metric ton of positive camber. I took my iphone out [i have a level app] and set it up against the tire...sure enough...about 2 degrees of positive camber. Me and Billy Utley did a hillbilly alignment with a couple of yardsticks, a couple of tape measures and my trusty Iphone...it was not perfect but it sure was better...the car picked up 2 seconds the next lap. And the owner said it had never driven that good before.
The point is...if it doesnt look right, it probably isnt. Dont trust the machine...its not as smart as you are. Educate yourself about alignment. Its almost as valuable as driving school!

AND...think about all the time and money you'll save!

[overZealous1]

i always say i am going to go get an alignment done, but before i go through the hassle of making appointment and waiting and all that jazz, i pull out my 24" level for camber, then i made a couple 2x2 cedar sticks that i fastened a framing square to for toe. actually very accurate if on level ground and have done it on countless cars over the last 20 years.
it is about time i got better equipment though. thanks for the links.

[rustomatic]

I can't really improve on what Bret said above, but his parking lot method works better than what 99% of yahoos with alignment certifications will give you with all the great technology. Since the lasers depend on computer records programmed for makes and models and stock settings, you will never win with an old car. On an old car, you'll always do better with an old-schooler who knows how to do it manually; the best alignments I've ever received were from a guy who knew what he was looking at (literally--he could actually see and understand camber angles), and knew how to use manual tools (basically a large square for toe).

Without meaning to, I actually got an alignment guy fired once--this was many years ago, on a '67 Mustang, before I was ever willing to try it myself. I could visually identify and label how the guy had made the car worse than it was (I'd just installed new control arms), but I took it for a drive anyway, just to humor him. I proceeded to effortlessly aim the car right at a curb, ten feet out of the shop's driveway. I brought it back, an argument between boss and tech ensued, and separation occurred. I got my money back and went somewhere else...

If the manual stuff works, why seek out confirmation from lasers, especially if you know how close your wheelbase is to square (or thereabouts)?

[another69]

I have always done my own alignments out of necessity and now I actually prefer doing it myself. I would love to have access to an alignment rack but for now I just do it in my garage. I have a 4 post lift that I took my time to level. I put the car/truck on it and use a Longacre caster/camber gauge and toe plates. What I have always missed is turn plates. I know that many of the above methods (trash bags, wax paper, etc.) allow the tires to slip easier, but what about caster accuracy? The tires need to be turned left and right the same exact amount in order to measure it, so how do you do that without the gauge on turn plates?

[parsonsj]

I had my 'Vette checked at the local alignment place, where the guy's been doing alignments for 30 years. Dude is actually older than me!

My camber and caster were identical to what the machine found, though my toe was off about .040. Not too bad at all.

As far as measuring caster, I have a cardboard template with 20* lines drawn on it, and I looked for 20* by eyeball. It was right on the money.