1970 GTO Version 2.0

[andrewb70]

As many of you know and many don't, my 1970 GTO was done in October of 2002.

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/features/0304phr_1970_pontiac_gto/index.html

Since then it has lived a rather quiet life. Mostly in storage. Due to some issues in my personal life and a lack of interest, the GTO was a bit neglected over the last 4-5 years. Well that changed this past weekend. I finally sold my fuel injected 502 big block. The engine will have a happy home in a Chevelle.

Stay tuned for more details and future upgrades.

Andrew

[Jims78elky]

Andrew,

Great news! I know what your saying,I finished the elky
in 2001 and it looks pretty rode and put away wet lol.:razz:

Actually it did even after I finished it..lol..:razz:

Iam glad your 502 is gone! New plans are always good!

It may be a little dusty,but can still kick serious butt.

Glad to hear your on a new plan,feels good doesn't it?


All the best!

:cool:


-Jim

[Young Gun]

well after reading the article I am excited to see the new plans!

[PT Goat]

Poncho power, maybe?

[SixSpeed454SS]

Poncho power, maybe?

Hopefully :fingersx:

[Code Red]

get to it

[7TSS]

Keep the pics coming as you progress

[SPECWARSQUID]

Glad to hear you're getting back in the saddle Andrew.

Can you let us in on your thoughts for the new power plant? Twin Turbocharged 455 maybe?

Or better yet build a "RAM AIR V".

I've seen 2 in person (One being Milt Schornack's) and they are colossal engines. If the Devil himself was gonna put a bad ass engine in his GTO...it would be a "RAM AIR V"

By the way Andrew What engine originally came in your Goat? And do you still have it?


Shay
____________
Semper Fortis


66 GTO

[andrewb70]

Thanks for the kind words guys. I am really excited about this project. This is my first car. Ever. As much as I tried talking myself into selling it, I just couldn't. At the same time I was starting to get bored. So the natural thing to do was to make some upgrades.

The goals of the project are to reduce the overall weight of the car, improve the weight distribution, increase fuel economy, retain low to mid 12 second drag strip performance, improve serviceability through the use of as many OEM parts as possible, improve overall dependability, make adjustments to the suspension to improve handling, lower the stance slightly, and have FUN!

After selling the big block and some other bits I had laying around, like the original GTO engine, my budget is about 12K. The original engine that was in the GTO went to a nice gentleman in NY state who plans to give it a nice home in a 70 GTO.

Andrew

[SixSpeed454SS]

The goals of the project are to reduce the overall weight of the car, improve the weight distribution, increase fuel economy, retain low to mid 12 second drag strip performance, improve serviceability through the use of as many OEM parts as possible, improve overall dependability, make adjustments to the suspension to improve handling, lower the stance slightly, and have FUN!

Sounds like it is getting LSx power :(

All Aluminum Pontiac motor will cost waaay more, but it would be awesome.


Hey, I like 'em all (Pontiac, Chevy, Olds, Buick, Mopars, Fords with Chevy motors, etc), but a car that nice needs a proper motor. Good luck with it, regardless what you put in it. Be sure to post progress pics.

[Young Gun]

Sounds like it is getting LSx power :(


aint anything wrong with that... LSX's arent a chevy engine, they are a cross platform GM engine, they came in gto's, firebirds, etc...they have just as much a place in a gto as in a camaro...

[ProMC1]

WOW!!! My first car was a 1970 GTO. I wish I would have never sold it. I bought it when I was 15 and had it ready to go when I got my license. I still remember my Dad fussing me out because the first thing I did was remove the A/C. Now I won't even get in a car without it. Good luck and keep us posted. Weldon

[SixSpeed454SS]

Young Gun,

Don't take offense. I love LSx motors. I've owned 2 of them myself, & would love to build a pro-touring '67 Mustang Fastback with a LS7 or LS9 in it :yeah: . I just think a classic GTO should have a Pontiac motor. It is just an opinion.

[gearbanger]

LSx is not a chevy....yada yada yada.... Neither is a 502. What chevy ever came out with a 502?

Really though, Andrew I love your car with whatever motor you choose, but I at least have to try....what about a Butler aluminum block, 511 inch pontiac with wideport Eheads or a set of high ports? Man, that would be like a long lost child coming home.
:worship: :woot:

[andrewb70]

You guys are right about LSx power. I played around with an LS6 on another project and I absolutely fell in love with those engines. I am not going to debate the various aspects of "true" Pontiac power vs. LSx power. However I will say this. At what point does an engine stop being a given brand? If I were to build an aluminum block "Pontiac" engine, I would not use one single OEM part. Everything would be aftermarket. I am also not sure how much weight an aluminum block "Pontiac" engine will save. I bet it will still tip the scales at over 500 pounds without accessories. An LSx engine is under 400 pounds bare, without exhaust manifolds or accessories.

Andrew

[WS6]

Wow! You finished it the first time in 02? It doesn't seem like that long ago that I remembered seeing it for the first time. Good luck Andrew. It sounds like you have a reasonable plan

[JMarsa]

Congrats on the sale! Keep us posted.

--JMarsa

[SPECWARSQUID]

C'mon Andrew fuel-inject it if it makes you feel better. :naughty:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/03/hppp_0702_15_z2006_POCI_convention_ontar-1.jpg


Surprised you sold you original engine. I'd kill to have the original drivetrains in any of my Goats. From a personal preferrence aswell as value. Did the original tranny go with the engine? What was the original engine/tranny setup in your car?



Shay
_____________
Semper Fortis

[andrewb70]

C'mon Andrew fuel-inject it if it makes you feel better. :naughty:

Surprised you sold you original engine. I'd kill to have the original drivetrains in any of my Goats. From a personal preferrence aswell as value. Did the original tranny go with the engine? What was the original engine/tranny setup in your car?

Shay
_____________
Semper Fortis

It will all be fuel injected, just like the big block was...LOL

I don't care about value. I will never sell this car and it will never be stock. I got tired of staring at the original engine. I am happy that its going to a good home. Better that it get used instead of rusting away in my garage. It was a WT code 400, 350HP, the base GTO engine for 1970. The original transmission was long gone. I replaced it with an M22 back in the late 80s and later sold the M22 to a friend.

The plan is to keep the current Richmond 6spd and not change anything from the bellhousing back.

Andrew

[parsonsj]

Great news, Andrew. I'm glad that 502 has found some other car to inhabit. Now you're free to update the car one more time.

Keep us posted. GatTagO is making a comeback!

jp

[SPECWARSQUID]

At what point does an engine stop being a given brand?

Andrew

That's a good point. Especially when you look at the latter 2nd gen Trans Ams with Olds 403s.

My personal point of view is that the LSX motors are a generic GM motor. Heck at least it's GM, after seeing some guys throwing LSx motor in their Mustangs (nothing wrong with that, built Ford Tough with Chevy stuff).

Shoot that 502 would be considered more Chevy than anything else. But I recall, I don't know if you still can, you used to be able to get the 502 cast with Pontiac emblems in the heads and block. So what is it at that point? Chevy or Pontiac? Then don't even get started on the Canadian Pontiacs with their Chevy powerplants.

So in the end it doesn't matter. All know is that Andrew's Goat is gonna be Killer.


Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

[gearbanger]

LSx power would definitely be cool and probably be better in almost every way, but it definitely does matter to alot of people when you pop the hood and there is another LS motor sitting there instead of the big Pontiac motor that they were expecting to see.

Those ole big block chevy heads and valve covers with PONTIAC wrote on them was just another ploy by GM to try to qualify their Chevy motor for use in some kind of stock class. I thing Warren Johnson might have been involved in that. Still a chevy no matter how you slice it. And canadian Pontiacs, please, that is almost like AMC. Those cars are like a GTO and a Chevelle hitting head on at 100 mph and then trying to build a car out of the wreckage.

Okay Andrew, how about this. Make the LS a throttle body type fuel injection with a conventional 4 barrel intake and fuel rails. Tuck the coil packs out of the way somewhere and have a cool set of valve covers made that say PONTIAC on them. At least keep it a clean, old car look under the hood. Not the wire wod covered by plastic covers that most LS jobs end up looking like.

[parsonsj]

I've no brand loyalty, and paying homage to any soulless corporation (like GM or Ford) to appease the need for a certain "look" seems pointless to me.

It's all about the performance. I only care about seeing good engineering practices and individual ingenuity. So let's see what Andrew comes up with.

Here's my first question: Andrew, are you planning on retaining the shaker hood? If so, what do you have in mind?

jp

[andrewb70]

I've no brand loyalty either. I think that when building custom cars with the goal of improving performance, every option should be considered. While it may seem that "its just another Lsx engine under the hood," the truth of the matter is that when you go to local shows, there are very few, if any, LSx conversions. The whole LSx conversion trend is still very much in the early adapter stage if you were to consider it from the perspective of a product life cycle. While certainly not the "bleeding" edge, it is far from common.

The shaker is definitely staying. The induction setup will largely depend on the kind of engine I choose. It is all tied in with the electronics that must be used, 24 tooth or 58 tooth, blah..blah...blah...I will cover all that in great detail when the time comes. The coils are staying on the valve covers. This is about functionality, not looks. To me the LSx engine are not ugly at all. I think they have a very purposeful appearance. Some of you might not be fully understanding the goals of the upgrade and don't know me very well. I am not a car show guy. When I go, I don't open the hood. My attention span at car shows is about a nano second. This is about making the car more drivable, enjoyable, and as dependable as a new car.

Andrew

[Young Gun]

The shaker is definitely staying. The induction setup will largely depend on the kind of engine I choose. It is all tied in with the electronics that must be used, 24 tooth or 58 tooth, blah..blah...blah...I will cover all that in great detail when the time comes. The coils are staying on the valve covers. This is about functionality, not looks. To me the LSx engine are not ugly at all. I think they have a very purposeful appearance. Some of you might not be fully understanding the goals of the upgrade and don't know me very well. I am not a car show guy. When I go, I don't open the hood. My attention span at car shows is about a nano second. This is about making the car more drivable, enjoyable, and as dependable as a new car.

Andrew

glad to hear the car is going to be focused on performance...and I am also glad to hear the shaker hood is staying... its an awsome car and I can't wait to see how she progresses!

[JMarsa]

The shaker is definitely staying.

To bad Year One won't cough up those airboxes for the Bandit cars. I'd think it would be a close fit.

--JMarsa

[cheapthrillz]

Every time I see your signature, it makes me want a goat....

My thoughts: give it an '06 gto treatment.... interior/wheels/drivetrain/irs/etc

I think that would be pretty cool....

[gearbanger]

I agree with you about the performance issue. Personally, I put more value on improving the "GTO" as much as the "GTO" can be improved, but once you change everything about it, there is not much GTO left. Why not just start with a vette? If it is all about performance, they are lighter, have perfect weight distribution, will launch and handle better that you will ever hope to with the Goat, and it is already set up fot the LSx.

I am just kidding Andrew, but you have been through this before.

I am with you on the car show boredom thing. After browsing this forum and seeing the perfection in every detail of a car, you kind of yearn for that at every show you go to but never get it. I think the performance should not be compromised for looks, but true engineering is make maximum performance look sooooooo sexy, like so many on this forum have done.

Can't wait to see what you do man.

[69Nova]

Man I'm glad this car is gonna get some more attention. Your car was on the cover of PHR about the same time I got my Nova. It's because of cars like yours and Steves streetfighter Camaro that clicked with me. I must have read the article about your car 20 times( I still revisit those magazines every so often). Without seeing your car on the cover I'd probly have a big block and a 4 speed and getting 8 mpg.

[andrewb70]

Thank you for all the kind words of encouragement guys. Today I dropped off the big block at its new home and picked up an L92 truck engine. The big ugly truck intake will need to go, as will the water pump and balancer. I also picked up a take out LS7 cam, LS7 valve springs with retainers from Jeff Schwartz. I will post pictures of the new engine tomorrow.

Andrew

[parsonsj]

Well done!

jp

[cheapthrillz]

Do you plan on touching the interior at all?

It sounds like you love to drive your car alot, that is why i suggested making it as comfortable as the new gto's (which are amazingly comfortable to drive!).

[andrewb70]

Do you plan on touching the interior at all?

It sounds like you love to drive your car alot, that is why i suggested making it as comfortable as the new gto's (which are amazingly comfortable to drive!).

Well I am not sure what you are suggesting as far as interior work. I have no plans to do anything to the interior. I already have nice leather seats, great sound insulations, awesome stereo. Am I missing something?

Andrew

[72LeMans]

the only thing i have to say is......................bitchin

[ponchopwr70]

I love what your doing with your car. I can't wait to see the finished product and performance figures. Keep us posted.

[andrewb70]

Here is the L92 engine.

Andrew

[Van B]

What are you going to do for accessory drive and intake? From what you told me it sounded like a good buy.

[Young Gun]

Here is the L92 engine.

Andrew

thats what you were talking about when you said truck intake lol...looks like it has lots of potential!

[andrewb70]

What are you going to do for accessory drive and intake? From what you told me it sounded like a good buy.


I'm going to use the Corvette accessory system. Since I want to keep the shaker, a single plane style intake is tempting. Either that or I will get the L76 intake package from GM Performance.

Andrew

[andrewb70]

When I got home this afternoon I found some Edelbrock goodies waiting for me. Here are the engine mount plates:

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo08.jpg

Judging by the engine cradle these mounting plates will put the bellhousing in very close proximity to where it was before. This is critical for me since I am not changing anything rear of the engine.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo07.jpg

The Edelbrock headers came with a complete gasket and bolt kit, but I am going to use the stock MLS exhaust gaskets and bolts. The stock gasket matches the headers well.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo06.jpg

The headers are gorgeous!!!

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo05.jpg

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo04.jpg

The L92s feature variable valve timing. Since I am going to swap cams I will need a non VVT front cover. The balancer will also be swapped over to a C6 Corvette unit.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo01.jpg

Shot down the intake port:

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo02.jpg

Andrew

[SixSpeed454SS]

Andrew,

I've used the S&P engine mount plates (they look very close to the edelbrock mounts you show) before & they mounted the engine in the exact place that was occupied by a big block. Your trans should be in the same place & your driveshaft/shifter should not be affected by the new engine.

Those headers are pretty damn sweet.

Good luck.

[andrewb70]

Anyone have a water cooled credit card handy? :/

Andrew

[WS6]

Those mounts will put the engine back further than the SBC/BBC would have been. 1/4 - 1/2" it appears.

I like the direction you are heading so far. I think a carb intake would be a good way to go so you could retain the shaker. That would also keep it clean so you didn't have to worry about plumbing an air intake.

[Edelexh]

Those mounts will put the engine back further than the SBC/BBC would have been. 1/4 - 1/2" it appears.

I like the direction you are heading so far. I think a carb intake would be a good way to go so you could retain the shaker. That would also keep it clean so you didn't have to worry about plumbing an air intake.

Actually just about all the other mounting plates out there move the engine forward for A/C compressor, and it still isn't enough to fit the compressor. We set the engine closer to the OEM location so things like tranmission shifter linkage and driveshafts will bolt right in. The biggest advantage to setting the engine back in the OEM location (our plates actually put the engine about 3/8" forward) is for better weight balance, move the engine forward and you give away a ton of vehicle balance. Here is a picture of an LS2 in a 1968 Chevelle.

[andrewb70]

Parts are slowly starting to trickle in. I got the proper cam gear to use with the LS7 cam. I also got a take off C6 water pump.

For the sake of my sanity, I removed the lifter valley cover just to double check that this engine does not have Displacement on Demand. It does not.

https://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo09.jpg

Andrew

[andrewb70]

Received the Keisler aluminum bellhousing today. Nice piece.

https://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo10.jpg

Andrew

[Young Gun]

looks nice!

[andrewb70]

Lots of goodies showed up today including the L76 intake manifold kit:

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo11.jpg

Andrew

[andrewb70]

Today I took off the truck balancer and the front cover. This is what the VVT system looks like:

https://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo12.jpg

The VVT cam use a single bolt to attach the cam gear and VVT mechanism:

https://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo13.jpg

The LS7 cam uses the typical 3 bolt style cam gear. You just have to make sure to get the correct gear with the right pattern of bumps for the cam sensor. I got mine as a handy little kit from Lingenfelter.

https://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo14.jpg

Once the cam was installed I bolted on an LS2 from cover along with a C6 water pump and balancer. With the exception of the hollow stem valves, and of course the LS7 cam, this is pretty much an LS3 now.

https://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo15.jpg

I also installed the AutoKraft oilpan. I really wanted to use an OEM style cast pan, but no one seems to agree what pan will work best. So I went with something that is proven to fit and retains the oil filter in the stock location.

https://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo16.jpg

Tomorrow I will be installing some Patriot Gold dual springs and doing some minor detailing.

Andrew

[hotrdblder]

looks awesome andrew!! cant wait for a ride:drive1:

[Young Gun]

wow looks awsome! glad your making such solid progress!

[Rick D]

Andrew, I know it's a little late now but the F-body pan fits with alittle rounding of the corners at he bottom of the pan by the crossmember. We put on in a 70 elcamino worked great. On your L92 heads did you do any work to them. To make them work even better you need to clean up the exhaust side posts and if you deck the heads you can get some really good power out of them. Glad to see you back on the car.

[andrewb70]

Andrew, I know it's a little late now but the F-body pan fits with alittle rounding of the corners at he bottom of the pan by the crossmember. We put on in a 70 elcamino worked great. On your L92 heads did you do any work to them. To make them work even better you need to clean up the exhaust side posts and if you deck the heads you can get some really good power out of them. Glad to see you back on the car.

I have read other people using F-body pans, but I am not sure it would work in my case. It is critical in my case that the bellhousing location stay in exactly the same place as it was with the big block. I am not planning on changing anything rear of the engine. I think the f-body pan does fit, but the engine needs to be pushed further back, and that is not an option for me.

I just have 4 more springs to install and I can button it up.

Andrew

[Rick Dorion]

Here is the L92 engine.

Andrew

Looking forward to your journey part II!

Is that L92 a takeout? I'll be following in your footsteps.

Thanks, Andrew.

[andrewb70]

Is that L92 a takeout?

The L92 is new, purchased as a GM reject. It was on a railcar that derailed and the intakes were damaged.

More progress over the weekend. I finished installing the Patriot Gold dual springs and hardened pushrods. I am pretty sure I went overkill on the springs, but I figure if I don't like this LS7 cam, I can just stab another one in it without having to worry about the springs.

Next I wanted to check the alignment of the Keisler bellhousing. I took the engine off the stand and placed the bellhousing against the block. Tick, tick, tick, tick...it was rocking back and forth. No good. I inspected it and it looks like someone dropped the bellhousing after it was machined. It put a slight dent on the corner and didn't allow the bellhousing to sit flat against the block. Little work with the file and it was good to go. This is a perfect example of why parts should be mocked up before installing them in the car. I may not have noticed this if I was on my back, under the car, trying to install it.

Next I wanted to check the alignment. I first measured the flatness. Very impressive, at .001".

Next I wanted to check the runout. I installed the dial indicator so it would ride on the inside of the bearing retainer register. This is what centers the transmission in the bellhousing. I set the indicator to zero.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo17.jpg

Rotated the engine 90 degrees. Still zero. Good.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo18.jpg

Rotated another 90 degrees. .005". Not bad.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo19.jpg

Rotated another 90 degrees. .004". Great.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo20.jpg

So the most the needle moved was .005". Divide that by 2 and you get total runout of .0025". Well under the recommended .005". Other than the minor issue with the bellhousing, I am pretty impressed.

Next it was time to see how the input shaft engages the pilot bearing. I am using a stock LS7 pilot bearing. I am happy with the engagement.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo21.jpg

Then I wanted to install the clutch so that I can take some measurements for getting the right hydraulic throw out bearing. Everyone should have a nice clutch alignment took. This one is from Quarter Master and is way better than a plastic one.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo22.jpg

There you have it, clutch and bellshousing installed. I am using a stock LS7 clutch on an LS2 flywheel. Heavy, but it will drive great. The distance from the clutch fingers to the outside of the bellhousing was 3.25". I will elaborate on why that's important later.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo23.jpg

I used some high temp "cast aluminum" paint to add a little detail to the valve covers.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo24.jpg

Time to start working on the car and get it ready for the engine. I want to redo some of the wiring as well as some of the fuel lines in the engine compartment.

Andrew

[Rubes]

Good progress Andrew...almost looks like it will be ready for Year One.

[andrewb70]

Good progress Andrew...almost looks like it will be ready for Year One.

Thanks Rubes. I really wasn't planning on going to Year One, but I just might.

Andrew

[hotrdblder]

you need to go to year one. looks awesome,

[Rick D]

Andrew the ls1 we put in the elcamino was with a 4 spd using all the stock componets. Everything is in the stock GM location. I made new frame mounts and used the stock f-body mounts. I was supprised it fit so good, but you already have an awsome pan so no big deal. Keep the pictures coming.

[Vinz68]

Lookin good! Can't wait to check it out in person.:hail:

[Smock67]

Andrew the progress you've made on your ride is awesome. I'm loving the detailed pictures and the constant updates. Keep it up man.

[andrewb70]

Andrew the progress you've made on your ride is awesome. I'm loving the detailed pictures and the constant updates. Keep it up man.

Thanks! I was wondering if anyone cared about the detailed tech...LOL

Andrew

[Bow Tie 67]

Excellent info, I cant wait to get mine in the garage next week.

[Rubes]

...I was wondering if anyone cared about the detailed tech... I always like to see the in's and outs of this stuff. The tech is great, but it would be cooler to see you at YOE, and if it was with the car...so much better.



... Excellent info, I cant wait to get mine in the garage next week.... Hasn't it been in the garage this entire time??? Or do you mean you got a new motor for yours???

[Bow Tie 67]

Hasn't it been in the garage this entire time??? Or do you mean you got a new motor for yours???

Bingo, although I wont have time to install it until next winter at the earliest.

Andrew, any idea on what you expect the Hp to be? Are you going to dyno it? On the intake assy? ( I'm assuming it came with injectors ( size? ) and rails )

[andrewb70]

Andrew, any idea on what you expect the Hp to be? Are you going to dyno it? On the intake assy? ( I'm assuming it came with injectors ( size? ) and rails )

My goal is to make 420-430rwhp and have a broad torque curve. I am not sure if the LS7 cam will get me there, but time will tell. I will have it on the dyno once it is done.

The intake assembly comes with LS7 injectors, which are about 40 lb/hr, and came as you saw in the picture. Intake, throttle body, rails, injectors, map sensor. Excellent value.

Andrew

[andrewb70]

Today I got a few more pieces of the puzzle. I was exploring the Keisler website and I looked in the "clutch actuation" section. Their hydraulic kit seemed like exactly what I was looking for. I only got the partial kit that does not include the hydraulic throwout bearing. Keisler is in the market of selling Tremec transmissions, so the TOB is designed to mount on a TKO. I have a Richmond, so I will connect the dots from the MC. Looks like a quality piece and exactly what I need. The MC has a 3/4" bore and a travel of 1.5". That should make just about any hydraulic bearing puke its guts, so I will have to mock everything up and make sure that the bearing is not being over extended.

https://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo25.jpg

I also ordered a Quarter Master street throw out bearing.

http://www.quartermasterusa.com/qm/721-series-hydraulic-street-release-bearings-complete-bearing-assembly.html

Andrew

[trapin]

Well I guess I'm late to the party as usual. Glad to see you found an engine and have made all this great progress. At this rate you'll be done by May timeframe. A few questions for you. Is the block aluminum, are the heads ported, and did you remove the VVT?

Looks great Andrew. Sorry I missed this thread. I feel like an idiot. LOL!!!

[andrewb70]

Well I guess I'm late to the party as usual. Glad to see you found an engine and have made all this great progress. At this rate you'll be done by May timeframe. A few questions for you. Is the block aluminum, are the heads ported, and did you remove the VVT?

Looks great Andrew. Sorry I missed this thread. I feel like an idiot. LOL!!!

You haven't read the thread! LOL.

Engine is stock except for the LS7 cam and valve springs.

Andrew

[trapin]

It was too much reading...I just looked at the pictures. LOL!!!

I'm going to go through it today. This is definitely an interesting build and I have a feeling you might have saved some bucks along the way.

[andrewb70]

Today I got some more parts for the swap. I got a starter, power steering pump, and a bunch of little parts to complete my accessory drive system. What I have here is basically the C5/C6 layout.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo26.jpg

I also received the GM Performance Parts harness and ECU package. Pretty good value when you consider that it is very complete. It comes with a big relay center and an auxiliary fuse panel that needs to be mounted somewhere. Its fairly ugly so I don't really know where I am going to put it yet.

Andrew

[parsonsj]

Andrew,

Are you putting in A/C?

jp

[andrewb70]

Andrew,

Are you putting in A/C?

jp

Nope. In order to install the AC compressor in the stock location the frame needs to be notched. I am not doing that. Good old 2x70 AC for me.

Andrew

[andrewb70]

The benefits of being a bachelor and living alone include being able to have a bunch of car parts in the living room and not hearing "THE DISPOSAL IS CLOGGED!!!" LOL

Besides the engine swap I am doing some suspension mods. I already have some coilovers in the front. The springs in the front are 550 lb/inch. They were marginal with the big block. I think they will work very well with the L92, so for now I am not messing with them. In the rear I currently have some springs that I got way back in the day, from HO Racing.

Who remembers them? If you do, your old!!!

I wanted the ability to adjust the ride height in the rear and more importantly have the ability to properly set the corner weights once the car is done. There are all kinds of solutions to accomplish this, I chose a very nice product from Budzter:

https://www.budzter.com/index.html

Not cheap, but the quality is outstanding and it is a true bolt on. No hacking of the rear is required and its fully reversible. I like that. The spring is 9.5" tall, 175 lb/inch from the Coleman Racing catalog.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo27.jpg

Andrew

[Bow Tie 67]

Now thats nice, drill holes for access and you can adjust the rear suspension on a quick pit stop.

How does the adjustment hold once made? locknut?

[1pontiac]

Nope. In order to install the AC compressor in the stock location the frame needs to be notched. I am not doing that. Good old 2x70 AC for me.

Andrew
F-body motorsports sells a kit that lets you put a radial style ac compressor on an ls series motor on the high right (passenger) side. You'll need to get lines fabbed for it but it would work. I think the kit is for a third gen F-body, but it should work to get an ac compressor from a third gen to work in your car, that way you shouldn't need to notch the frame. It just isn't as astheticly pleasing an appearance as the lower mounted axial compressors are.

[1pontiac]

F-body motorsports sells a kit that lets you put a radial style ac compressor on an ls series motor on the high right (passenger) side. You'll need to get lines fabbed for it but it would work. I think the kit is for a third gen F-body, but it should work to get an ac compressor from a third gen to work in your car, that way you shouldn't need to notch the frame. It just isn't as astheticly pleasing an appearance as the lower mounted axial compressors are.
http://www.youngsfbody.com/inc/sdetail/12165

Kit's $300 Hope this helps.

[andrewb70]

http://www.youngsfbody.com/inc/sdetail/12165

Kit's $300 Hope this helps.

Thanks for the info and link!

Andrew

[andrewb70]

Now thats nice, drill holes for access and you can adjust the rear suspension on a quick pit stop.

How does the adjustment hold once made? locknut?

If you look at the screw part you can see little holes that are drilled for safety wire.

Andrew

[andrewb70]

I got my Vette regulator/filter combo the other day. There are many ways to make it work in custom applications. I chose to go to the local hydraulic supply store and get some fittings. The compression fittings were about $12 bucks for the pair. Steel, made by Eaton. Dorman and autoparts stores can officially kiss my ass. The little tube in the picture was 16 bucks. Grrr....

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo28.jpg

Andrew

[andrewb70]

It seems that just when you think something will only take a short time, the bottom falls out. I got the fittings this morning and got under the car. It's a good thing the rear end was out, because I am not sure if I could have done this with the rear end installed. That also makes me worried that it might be hard to get to the filter for maintenance, but I will cross that bridge when the time comes.

So here is the final installation. It was a little challenging because I didn't have quite enough room. There were some existing lines that I wanted to reuse and this is the best layout that I could come up with.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo29.jpg

Andrew

[tom_a]

Andrew,

Looks good. Your posts are really usefull for some of us knobs like me. If you could and when the time comes snap a picture of the spring adjuster install? I have never used those and I think I would like the idea of being able to adjust ride height a little in the rear.

Thanks,
Tom

[andrewb70]

Andrew,

Looks good. Your posts are really usefull for some of us knobs like me. If you could and when the time comes snap a picture of the spring adjuster install? I have never used those and I think I would like the idea of being able to adjust ride height a little in the rear.

Thanks,
Tom

Thanks Tom. My goal with this thread was to proide as much technical information as possible for people that are doing something similar.

I was actually messing around with the spring adjusters today and I have mixed feelings so far. As always "bolt on" parts, don't. The stock spring perch has a very wide filet and the spacer that is supposed to slip over it, doesn't have enough clearance to sit flush. I may just leave it. I don't think a small gap will make any difference. I will take some pictures tomorrow.

Andrew

[andrewb70]

I also got the got the Quarter Master "street" hydraulic bearing today. Remember how I said in a previous post that the clutch fingers are 3.25" away from the face of the bellhousing? We this is where that dimension is critical. The bearing has to be shimmed so that it is .100"-.150" from the clutch fingers. The shims go between the bearing retainer and the bearing and move it closer to the clutch fingers. I have mine set with a .090" gap. Tighter than what is recommended, but I am comfortable with it. The gap is needed because as the clutch wears, the spring fingers will move back towards the bearing. If there is no gap, the spring fingers will start to press against the bearing and there is the potential for clutch slippage due to decreased spring pressure.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo30.jpg

Andrew

[Bow Tie 67]

Andrew the underside of your car looks very clean, like it never had rust. Where did you find that car?

On the clutch I found out the hard way years ago. I setup a hays clutch to factory specs ( which has you measure pedal play, mind you all parts were new ) and after one day at the drags it was ruined. I only had 200 miles on it. Dohh!!

[andrewb70]

Andrew the underside of your car looks very clean, like it never had rust. Where did you find that car?

On the clutch I found out the hard way years ago. I setup a hays clutch to factory specs ( which has you measure pedal play, mind you all parts were new ) and after one day at the drags it was ruined. I only had 200 miles on it. Dohh!!

I've owned the car since I was 15. When we started on the body it was decided that a new shell would save money in the long run. So this shell was off an Arizona car with original quarters and solid floor. The only part that was replaced was a small section of the trunk floor that was rusted due to some foam in the trunk. It held the moisture and resulted in a hole.

Most people pay very little attention to properly setting up a driveline. Bellhousing alignment, bearing clearance, driveshaft angles are all very important and very hard to diagnose once the car is done.

Andrew

[andrewb70]

So tonight I tackled the installation of the Keisler clutch master kit. Overall I am pretty pleased with this setup. I had to clearance a small section of the mounting plate to clear the steering column, however that is no fault of the product. As I recall, my steering column is a hair over to the left. I did that so the steering shaft would clear the headers. The notch is minor as you can see in the picture:

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo31.jpg

The rod from the MC to the pedal makes a straight shot and fits well. I did have to remove the little bracket that held my backup light switch, so I will have to figure out something else for that.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo32.jpg

Once everything was installed I wanted to test how far my throw out bearing would move with the full travel of the clutch pedal. This is important because moving the bearing past a certain point will cause it to leak and possibly get damaged. So I connected a long hard line to the MC and ran it to the outside of the car. Connected my Quarter Master release bearing, and bled the system.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo33.jpg

It turned out that the bearing moved about .610" with the full stroke of the clutch pedal. This is perfect considering that the max travel on this bearing is about .650". The next step will be to see how well the bearing releases the clutch. Tomorrow I will bolt everything together and mock it up outside the car. This seems like a lot of work, but it sure beats taking everything apart after the fact.

Andrew

[streetk14]

I've no brand loyalty either. I think that when building custom cars with the goal of improving performance, every option should be considered. While it may seem that "its just another Lsx engine under the hood," the truth of the matter is that when you go to local shows, there are very few, if any, LSx conversions. The whole LSx conversion trend is still very much in the early adapter stage if you were to consider it from the perspective of a product life cycle. While certainly not the "bleeding" edge, it is far from common.


Andrew,
You are absolutely right about this one. People see the LSx builds on the internet and assume that they are everywhere. As you know, this is not the case. The last show I had my car in last year had at least 400 cars, and I think my car was the only one with an LSx motor. You are seeing quite a few in magazines these days, because that is the hot trend in higher-end cars (for a reason). Thses cars do not reflect the average hotrod or musclecar out on the road or in the shows today.

Fact is that an LSx motor has a lot more going for it than a 60's or 70's Pontiac motor, whether some people want to agree with it or not. Good choice, Andrew, and I look forward to seeing this car done again.

Andy

[gearbanger]

Ouch.

[formula98]

Andrew,
You are absolutely right about this one. People see the LSx builds on the internet and assume that they are everywhere. As you know, this is not the case. The last show I had my car in last year had at least 400 cars, and I think my car was the only one with an LSx motor. You are seeing quite a few in magazines these days, because that is the hot trend in higher-end cars (for a reason). Thses cars do not reflect the average hotrod or musclecar out on the road or in the shows today.

Fact is that an LSx motor has a lot more going for it than a 60's or 70's Pontiac motor, whether some people want to agree with it or not. Good choice, Andrew, and I look forward to seeing this car done again.

Andy

Andy I agree with you. I’m amazed that there are very few LSx cars at the shows. I was expecting more, but find that there isn’t a big showing for the swaps. I’m glad to see this post and great job Andrew. This is great info and I look forward to reading more. Keep up the great work.

[andrewb70]

Ouch.
Someone pinch you?

Thanks for the compliments and words of encouragement guys. Today I wanted to finalize the clutch hydraulics and confirm that everything will work. So I bled the clutch. I know that there are numerous methods out there, as well as all kinds of tools. My favorite solo bleeding method is still the "clear bottle with a tube" method.

https://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo34.jpg

Remember that bleeding hydraulics is not about pressure. There is no need to pump the pedal as hard and fast as you can. The goal is to displace air and replace it with fluid. Gently moving fluid through the system does just that, without aerating the fluid.

Once the hydraulics were free of air I was able to press on the clutch pedal to see what was happening at the bearing. The nice thing about doing this outside of the car is that I am able to look through the clutch fork hole and see exactly what is happening inside the bellhousing. I discovered that the fittings on the side of the throw out bearing were touching the clutch pressure plate. The LS7 clutch spring fingers sit a good ways down when the pressure place is bolted to the flywheel. So the solution was to press the bearing off the piston and put some shims behind it. This way there is more space between the body of the bearing and the face of the bearing. Hard to imagine what I am talking about.

Here is the bearing at rest, with the shims already installed.

https://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo35.jpg

Here is the bearing fully extended and the clutch released.

https://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo36.jpg

The pedal is firmer than I expected, but the release is super smooth. So much better than the mechanical bearing with the z-bar. I would recommend this mod to anyone, regardless of engine choice.

Andrew

[Bow Tie 67]

Great write up, I am surprised that the whole assy moves. Which would explain why the guide pin is needed and the fact why shims may, and in your case, were needed. If I'm not mistaken a factory setup only has the piston move, while the main hydraulic housing is stationary. Great pics.

The second pic may be better described as full extension. Lol, now I see what you meant, ( full clutch release ) my mind was in a hydraulic mode, not full clutch system mode.:pat:

[andrewb70]

Great write up, I am surprised that the whole assy moves. Which would explain why the guide pin is needed and the fact why shims may, and in your case, were needed. If I'm not mistaken a factory setup only has the piston move, while the main hydraulic housing is stationary. Great pics.

The second pic may be better described as full extension. Lol, now I see what you meant, ( full clutch release ) my mind was in a hydraulic mode, not full clutch system mode.:pat:

I changed to wording to make it more clear. Thanks for pointing that out.

The design of that bearing is fairly common. I don't know that Quarter Master was the first to make it like that, but they have been making it for a long time. The design lends itself well to tight applications. By centering and supporting the release bearing on the transmission bearing retainer it can be made very compact. Room was not an issue in my case, but some clutches are very tall. Some engines also have a lot more flywheel offset (distance between the crank flange and the bellhousing mating surface) and push the clutch further back. If the bearing was designed to have a base that did not move, with fittings going into it, the collapsed height would be taller.

I may change the MC. I looked on the Wilwood website and it looks like this same style MC is available in a smaller (.700") bore. This will reduce bearing travel and make the pedal lighter. There is plenty of travel at the bearing now to release the clutch and a lighter pedal will be nicer.

Andrew

[zbugger]

Looking real good Andrew. I really like that clutch setup. It's giving me good idea's for when I finally decide to go with a manual trans.

[HILROD]

You'd want a larger bore to make it easier, been there done that, already. The pedal travel might need to be limited then, to not over-travel the bearing.

[andrewb70]

You'd want a larger bore to make it easier, been there done that, already. The pedal travel might need to be limited then, to not over-travel the bearing.

Using a smaller bore MC will decrease pedal effort and reduce bearing travel. The smaller the bore the less volume of fluid is pushed per stroke, but pressure at the bearing will be increased.

Andrew

[trapin]

Fun stuff.

OK lets get back to the fuel system. Now...where did you get your regulator from, how much and what type of fuel tank are you running? Sumped? Do you have a pump installed in the tank or are you running an external pump?

Looks great Andrew. I finally made it out to the garage today and started my window installation. I hope to beworking on the fuel system sometime in June and I'll probably come back to this thread time and time again for technical help.

[andrewb70]

Tony,

I got the regulator/filter from RockAuto.com. It is an AC Delco. Just look up 2000 Corvette. It was about 40 bucks. My fuel tank started life as a new, stock replacement tank. It was modified by Rock Valley to have an internal pump installed along with a sump.

Andrew

[trapin]

Is the sump needed for a street car? Do they put a baffle in the tank as well to go around the pump? That is what I plan on doing, sending my tank out to Rock Valley. That's a great price for the regulator/filter. Street & Performance wants a kidney for one of their's.

[andrewb70]

Is the sump needed for a street car? Do they put a baffle in the tank as well to go around the pump? That is what I plan on doing, sending my tank out to Rock Valley. That's a great price for the regulator/filter. Street & Performance wants a kidney for one of their's.

The sump was needed under the fuel pump insert because the A-body tansk are very shallow. The baffle is part of the insert and keep fuel from sloshing away from the pump "sock."

I think the Street and Performance filter kit includes some lines and fittings, hence the higher price. I like to do my own thing so I went to the local hydraulic hose company and they had everything I needed.

Andrew

[gearbanger]

I am very interested in the hydraulic clutch slave and master. Are you using the Centerforce dual friction clutch? I am wondering what the best setup would be for the pontiac motor, TKO 600 setup? Would keisler be the best place to contact? I saw that McLeod had a setup that some pontiac guys had used.

Since I stepped up to 2" headers, that z-bar has really been in the way!

[andrewb70]

I am very interested in the hydraulic clutch slave and master. Are you using the Centerforce dual friction clutch? I am wondering what the best setup would be for the pontiac motor, TKO 600 setup? Would keisler be the best place to contact? I saw that McLeod had a setup that some pontiac guys had used.

Since I stepped up to 2" headers, that z-bar has really been in the way!

I am using a stock LS7 clutch, but that really makes no difference as far as the hydraulic bearing is concerned. If you are using a TKO 600 I see no reason why you would not go with the complete Keisler setup. Their bearing mounts on a custom transmission front bearing retainer that is included in the kit. I can't really commend as to how well their bearing works, but I can tell you that I am ery pleased with the way the MC works.

Andrew

[gearbanger]

Thanks Andrew, I will check them out. I just went back and reread and realized you have a Richmond. I guess Keisler would have the TKO stuff already scienced out pretty well.

I was wondering what else are you doing to that 6.2 liter to try and get 425 horse at the wheels? That is pretty much z06 performance and it will probably take more that just the ls7 cam to get that out of the 6.2 liter. Are you putting on a blower?

[andrewb70]

Thanks Andrew, I will check them out. I just went back and reread and realized you have a Richmond. I guess Keisler would have the TKO stuff already scienced out pretty well.

I was wondering what else are you doing to that 6.2 liter to try and get 425 horse at the wheels? That is pretty much z06 performance and it will probably take more that just the ls7 cam to get that out of the 6.2 liter. Are you putting on a blower?

I may be silly but I think the LS7 cam and headers will get me to the 420-430 RWHP territory. Stock LS7s put down about 440 rwhp. That is with a TR6060 and IRS. I would bet that my Richmond and 12 bolt robs less HP. I guess time will tell.

I had a LS6 in my RX7 that just had a modest cam. It made right around 400RWHP. This engine has better heads and about 30 more cubic inches. I really think I can get to 420-430 RWHP as is. :hmm:

Andrew

[andrewb70]

Today I worked on the rear end. I degreased it and gave it a rattle can make over. Along with the cosmetic touch up I installed new upper control arm bushings and finished up the installation of the weight jacks.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo37.jpg

If anyone else is using these weight jacks, I would highly recommend painting them. They are steel with a black oxide coating. I already saw signs of surface rust after sitting in the garage for only 2 weeks.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo38.jpg

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo39.jpg

Tomorrow the rear end will get plugged back in and I will start on the wiring. With any luck, the engine will be going in next weekend.

Andrew

[Smock67]

Amazing progress Andrew and some great technical information. I love it

[gearbanger]

I may be silly but I think the LS7 cam and headers will get me to the 420-430 RWHP territory. Stock LS7s put down about 440 rwhp. That is with a TR6060 and IRS. I would bet that my Richmond and 12 bolt robs less HP. I guess time will tell.

I had a LS6 in my RX7 that just had a modest cam. It made right around 400RWHP. This engine has better heads and about 30 more cubic inches. I really think I can get to 420-430 RWHP as is. :hmm:

Andrew

Maybe on that same dyno you can :)

The LS7 has 50 more cubes and all kinds of exotic parts like titanium rods and valves, bigger ports, dry sump oiling. It is hard to beleive you can just put the cam and intake on the 6.2 liter and be that close. I hope you are though, then I would really be impressed with the ls2 motor.

If the zo6 makes 440 rwhp, that is only like 13% loss. That seems pretty low.

[andrewb70]

Maybe on that same dyno you can :)

The LS7 has 50 more cubes and all kinds of exotic parts like titanium rods and valves, bigger ports, dry sump oiling. It is hard to beleive you can just put the cam and intake on the 6.2 liter and be that close. I hope you are though, then I would really be impressed with the ls2 motor.

If the zo6 makes 440 rwhp, that is only like 13% loss. That seems pretty low.

I am not sure what you mean by "same dyno." I ran the RX7 at the drag strip dozens of times. My race weight was about 3000 pounds and I routinely trapped over 125 mph. Punch that into any drag racing calculator and you get about 460 hp. Certainly jives with the chassis dyno numbers.

As for the ls7s, the 505 hp is way underrated. GM Performance parts will be selling a 480 HP version of the LS3 shortly. It is basically an LS3 with the old "hot cam." Its a very mild cam, with more duration but less lift than the LS7 cam. I don't see why my combo would be too far off from that number.

I never really bought into using a percentage to go from flywheel HP to RWHP. It doesn't make sense to me why when an engine makes more power all of a sudden it takes more to drive the drivetrain. I think its more accurate to determine that a particular transmission in a given chassis looses to driveline losses and use that figure. In the end its all academic. The drag strip doesn't lie.

Andrew

[trapin]

"Strip don't lie"

Andrew I think that's your new motto.

[gearbanger]

I guess chassis dynoers have just used data from so many cars that they have come to see the loss work more on a percentage of the total. It makes sense to me that the harder the load is on driveline, the greater the friction would be and thus the more loss you would see.

I do like the new motto idea, "Project Strip Don't Lie"

[parsonsj]

Well, strippers may not lie, but they sure use up your dollar bills in a hurry.

:)

Anyway, Andrew, keep the tech coming. Great stuff!

jp

[David Sloan]

Well, strippers may not lie, but they sure use up your dollar bills in a hurry.

:)

Anyway, Andrew, keep the tech coming. Great stuff!

jp

:lol: Ant that the truth!

Its good to see you working on her again!Andrew

[andrewb70]

The rear end is back in the car and the spring adjusters work great. Here is what the spring looks like at the new ride height.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo40.jpg

The old ride height was 28" to the top of the wheel well opening. The new rise height is 26". This is as low as I am going to go. As you can see there is not much room between the axle tubes and the exhaust. The 2" drop makes a huge impact in terms of looks. I have tall, 28", tires and now they are tucked up inside the wheel well.

Andrew

[Young Gun]

cant wait to see how this looks! progress has been awsome so far!

[jackfrost]

Andrew, I'm a little confused. it looks like adjusters add a couple inches of height, even if they're all the way down... did you use a much shorter spring to allow for a 2" drop after the height of the adjuster was added?

thanks.

[andrewb70]

Andrew, I'm a little confused. it looks like adjusters add a couple inches of height, even if they're all the way down... did you use a much shorter spring to allow for a 2" drop after the height of the adjuster was added?

thanks.

I used a much shorter spring to compensate for the height added by the adjusters. I am using 175lb/inch springs that have a 9.5" free standing height.

I also found some dyno numbers for a stock LS3 Corvette.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=1749988

I see no reason why my combo should not make my goal of 430 RWHP.

Andrew

[gearbanger]

If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. I like how that one guy asked, "was that a dynojet dyno? :) :) :)

Bench racing is bench racing. Drag strip numbers are deceiving too. The setup of the car controls how close you run to those generic calculators. How much of that power you are actually using depends on how well you hook, and all that.

Stick that motor on a real (DTS) dyno before you drop it in the car. It's the best money you can spend. I've heard plenty of stories of picking up over 100 horsepower on the dyno with tuning. 500 bucks for some dyno time is well worth a possible 100 hp.

[andrewb70]

Bench racing is bench racing. Drag strip numbers are deceiving too. The setup of the car controls how close you run to those generic calculators. How much of that power you are actually using depends on how well you hook, and all that.


Actually the setup of the car has very little to do with the trap speed. Using the weight of the car and the trap speed is a very accurate way to determine the power that the engine makes.

If you want to make a statement, just say it. What's your point?

Andrew

[andrewb70]

It is amazing what difference 2" in ride height makes. The rear seems to sit so much lower now. I am sure part of this is due to the fact that I have tall tires and now they looked tucked inside the wheel well.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo41.jpg

Andrew

[parsonsj]

Wow, Andrew! Stance looks good.

On the other hand, your color balance is off. Look at the difference in color between this pic and your signature.

jp

[andrewb70]

Wow, Andrew! Stance looks good.

On the other hand, your color balance is off. Look at the difference in color between this pic and your signature.

jp

All of these pictures are being shot with my iPhone. If I was really ambitious I would get my Canon 5D out and set it up with custom white balance. For the web it the iPhone is more than adequate. As with all digital cameras the iPhone has trouble with flourecent and halogen lighting sources.

Andrew

[gearbanger]

I saw a horsepower tv yesterday, it may have been a rerun but I hadn't seen it before. They took a stock ls1 and put a different cam, long tube headers, and ran it on the dyno without the accessories of course. It made 445 horsepower. I was pretty impressed with that. With that information if you add the extra 25 inches of displacement, you could see upper 400s for hp. I guess you were one the money with you predictions.

I stand corrected. Sorry for doubting you Andrew :)

I would like to see more with the Ls7. It must be way underrated, or way restricted. It seems like mid to upper 500 horsepower range would be pretty easy for that engine. That is pretty amazing.

[andrewb70]

It's funny how once people see something on TV they assume its gospel, but when they hear something from a guy with first hand experience, its Mr. Doubting Thomas. :hmm:

No apologies required.

Anyway. I have been working on getting the wiring sorted out. The GMPP harness has three huge connectors that go to the ECU. In order to fit them through the firewall I would need at least a 3" hole. There is already a 2" hole in the firewall so I wanted to see if I could somehow feed the harness through it. The only way to do that was to start feeding the harness from the inside. With some effort I was able to feed it through. However the huge relay center was not going to make it. So I cut the wires to the relay center. It's no big deal since I will most likely have to lengthen that harness anyway. I would like to mount the relay center on the radiator support so it will not be so visible.

I also fixed some wiring oddities that were done by a shop that did the wiring during the original build. Odd things, like having wires that went from the bulkhead connector fed through the firewall then back out through the firewall, and back to the backup switch. Who does that s**t?

Another thing that I will have to do is get a different pedal. The one that is included with the GMPP harness kit is just plain awful. It is big, and huge, and ugly, and pretty much looks like it's made for semi truck. I think a pedal from a Corvette or a Chevy Malibu might work much better. Maybe a quick trip to the dealership is in order. LOL

Andrew

[oestek]

Great stuff, Andrew, and excellent commentary. This is a great thread with lots of good info. Thanks for taking the time to post it all!

- KO

[andrewb70]

Great stuff, Andrew, and excellent commentary. This is a great thread with lots of good info. Thanks for taking the time to post it all!

- KO

Thanks Kevin!

Sometimes one has to wonder, "WHAT THE F**K WERE THESE PEOPLE THINKING?" GMPP did a very nice job coming out with a harness and ECU combo that was priced right, fits well, and is easy to hook up. Then you realize that the engineer who speced the gas pedal has never turned a wrench in his (or her) life. The pedal that they send with the harness kit is on the right:

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo42.jpg

It is HUGE and looks like it belongs on a dump truck. I can't imagine that it would fit into any car or streetrod etc...

Thanks for Jeff Schwartz, I got an alternative. The pedal on the left is from a 2007 Monte Carlo SS.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo43.jpg

Nice and tidy, with an easy to mount flange. I was able to position it exactly where the old gas pedal was. I even used one of the original holes, drilled an extra hole, and was done.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo44.jpg

So with some luck, I hope to drop the engine in this weekend.

Andrew

[andrewb70]

Not much to say, as a picture is worth a thousand words:

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo45.jpg

Andrew

[trapin]

Looks damn good, Andrew. I like the polished finish of the L76 fuel rails over the puke brown ones on my car. I half thought about repainting them, then I remembered I was too lazy. :Alchy:

[tom_a]

Looks great. Any tie rod issues? Also did you just mount to stock stands or use spacers?

Thanks,
Tom

[andrewb70]

Looks great. Any tie rod issues? Also did you just mount to stock stands or use spacers?

Thanks,
Tom

Tony,

The L73/LS3 rails are really nice. They are stainless and will look great for a long time.

Tom,
I am using the Edelbrock adapter plates. These put the bellhousing at exactly the same location as it was before. My shifter fits perfectly. I am also using the Energy Suspention poly mounts that I had on the big block. I believe they are the tall and narrow style, along with the big block frame stands. As it is right now, I am not sure about the tie rods. I can't turn the wheels because of how my jack stands are located. It looks like it will be close. I did not use the little plate that came with the motor mounts. I have a feeling the engine may have to go up slightly. I will report back tomorrow.

The Edelbrock headers fit like a glove!

Andrew

[Young Gun]

looks awsome!! loving this build, fun to watch!

[tom_a]

Tony,


Tom,
I am using the Edelbrock adapter plates. These put the bellhousing at exactly the same location as it was before. My shifter fits perfectly. I am also using the Energy Suspention poly mounts that I had on the big block. I believe they are the tall and narrow style, along with the big block frame stands. As it is right now, I am not sure about the tie rods. I can't turn the wheels because of how my jack stands are located. It looks like it will be close. I did not use the little plate that came with the motor mounts. I have a feeling the engine may have to go up slightly. I will report back tomorrow.

The Edelbrock headers fit like a glove!

Andrew

Thats good news on headers and it sounds like engine location will allow you to use driveshaft without modifing. Really look forward to seeing more.:twothumbs

[andrewb70]

Thats good news on headers and it sounds like engine location will allow you to use driveshaft without modifing. Really look forward to seeing more.:twothumbs

My goal was to not have to modify anything from the bellhousing back. I will install the driveshaft tomorrow and make sure that its good. Judging by the shifer location, I don't expect any problems.

Andrew

[olds87]

That is awesome Andrew. :cool:

[Smock67]

Wow the LS looks perfect in your engine bay. Hopefully the drive shaft will also fit like a glove. I love this project.

[andrewb70]

Today I finally got done with modifying the GMPP engine harness. There were a few things that I did not like about it and I also wanted to give it some custom touches. The thought crossed my mind to completely reloom the harness, but I decided against it. Once I got the harness all hooked up and routed, it was pretty obvious that most of the harness is not really visible. It tucks very nicely behind the engine. The most visible parts are the extremities. The little branches that go to the various sensors, throttle body, and injectors. So I addressed just those areas. Here you can see how I kept the main branch of the portion of the harness that tuns along the fuel rail. What I did reloom were all the little fuel injector sections. You can also see the fuel line. It is a smooth bore Teflon braided stainless line that I covered with the nylon loom material.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo47.jpg

Here you can see a section of the harness that had several branches going to the coolant temp sensor, alternator, crank sensor and MAF. It looked like this:

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo48.jpg

I changed it to this:

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo49.jpg

Not a huge difference, but a small detail.

I also routed the line from the coolant crossover tube. This tube can be routed to several places. The most popular is to run it to the radiator by the upper radiator hose. Others run a T in the upper radiator hose and routed there. On 5.3L Trailblazers the line runs to the large heater hose. So I drilled and tapped the water pump and ran a stainless hardline from the crossover tube to the water pump.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo46.jpg

Getting really close to firing it up!

Andrew

[trapin]

Looks good Andrew. That helps me out.

Also....we're gonna want a sound file. Don't you dare post about
it when it happens and not bring any ear music with you.

[andrewb70]

Looks good Andrew. That helps me out.

Also....we're gonna want a sound file. Don't you dare post about
it when it happens and not bring any ear music with you.

I have to see who has a video camera. It would be nice to get that footage.

Look at all that room even with the radiator installed. I love the Corvette accessories. Plenty of room on the passenger side for a GT42R. :secret2:

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo50.jpg

I would say 75% of the engine is behind the front axle centerline. With any luck this thing will have about a 50/50 weight distribution.

Andrew

[novaracer_2000]

That's awesome,I was thinking about a ls1 for my GTO.Are you gonna use the new GTO coil covers?

[andrewb70]

That's awesome,I was thinking about a ls1 for my GTO.Are you gonna use the new GTO coil covers?

I am not a huge fan of the coil covers. Why hide the wiring that I just spent 12 hours on fixing. LOL

Andrew

[trapin]

I'm with you on that Andrew, I don't like the look of them and find nothing offensive looking about the coil packs and wires. I think it looks cool actually.

I know you're running an in tank pump on this thing but I wanted to ask you...how hard would an external pump be to do? Would It be cheaper to run one that way?

[gearbanger]

I just changed my GTO over to an electric pump. It is the Holley HP250 pump. Supposed to be really quiet and I guess it is but I don't like to hear the pump at all and I can hear it over my exhaust periodically. I will eventually get a tank that I can have an in tank pump. That should make it quieter.

[andrewb70]

I'm with you on that Andrew, I don't like the look of them and find nothing offensive looking about the coil packs and wires. I think it looks cool actually.

I know you're running an in tank pump on this thing but I wanted to ask you...how hard would an external pump be to do? Would It be cheaper to run one that way?

An intank pump is better for a number of reasons. But really there is no reason that you can't run an external pump. People did it for years. If you wanted to get on the road quickly, I would just install a Walbro 255l/hr inline pump. I wouldn't even bother with the tank at this point. You may get an occasional drop in pressure and get a bog when your tank is really low. Just make sure you always have at least 1/4-1/3 tank of gas and it should not be a huge issue.

Andrew

[hotrdblder]

andrew looks awesome, whos braided wire loom did you use, looks killer
jake

[andrewb70]

andrew looks awesome, whos braided wire loom did you use, looks killer
jake

Jake,

I am not sure what your asking about. The engine harness is from GM Performance Parts, but I modified it with the braided polyester loom.

Andrew

[trapin]

I think he's asking "what brand" of braided wire loom did you go with.

[andrewb70]

I think he's asking "what brand" of braided wire loom did you go with.

I got it from McMaster Carr. Page 789 of the catalog. "Easy-Cut" polyester loom.

Andrew

[andrewb70]

Fire in the hole!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTdcjXqXIug

Andrew

[Rubes]

:hmm: Damn...thats quite!!! LOL
There is no sound.

[andrewb70]

:hmm: Damn...thats quite!!! LOL
There is no sound.

Grrrr....I will have to upload it another way. Looks like YouTube messed it up. It's just a crappy cell phone video, but that's better than nothing.

Andrew

[subtlez28]

Darn Andrew
I just found this thread. Page 8....
Looks like I have some reading to do.
Looking forward to the audio.
Open headers?

-Shaun-

[andrewb70]

Darn Andrew
I just found this thread. Page 8....
Looks like I have some reading to do.
Looking forward to the audio.
Open headers?

-Shaun-

Hey Shaun,

This thread is a duplicate of the one on LS1tech with the exception of people asking different questions. I will sort out the video/audio when I get home. Right now it's open headers. I was really surprised that it fired up. I didn't have the O2 sensors hooked up or even the MAF. I guess on cold start up it's just in open loop.

I didn't have an oil pressure gauge hooked up, so I disconnected the coils and took off the oil filter. I then cranked it over until I saw oil poaring out of the filter pad. It only took 10-20 seconds to get the oil moving. I reinstalled the oil filter and it fired right up after I reconnected the coil packs.

Andrew

[Motown 454]

Andrew Awesome thread , very informative I can't wait until you get the video fixed !
Wayne

[andrewb70]

Andrew Awesome thread , very informative I can't wait until you get the video fixed !
Wayne
Thanks Wayne!

Lets try this again. Here is the link to the file:

Video Link (https://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/video01.wmv)

Please do Right click and Save Link As.

Sorry about the quality. It was made with a cell phone. LOL

Andrew

[tom_a]

Awesome Andrew!

I personally have not seen many threads with muscle cars that are converted to LSX engines torn down and firing the next month. Congrats on the great execution.

Tom

[subtlez28]

Excellent point tom a.
The progress has been quite impressive!
Especially when you factor in that you are documenting it and sharing some good tech w us.

Keep it up Andrew! It is appreciated!

[trapin]

It also helps that he's single and doesn't have a wife constantly offering alternatives to working on his car like..."Why don't you fix the pantry door? "Lets paint the moldings and doors in our house white", "Lets chop down the pine tree in the front yard and plant a Japanese maple", "Jared has baseball practice, you need to take him", "Jacob has soccor practice, you need to take him", "We have this family function to go to", "We have that family function to go to", and "blah..blah...blah."

[andrewb70]

It also helps that he's single and doesn't have a wife constantly offering alternatives to working on his car like..."Why don't you fix the pantry door? "Lets paint the moldings and doors in our house white", "Lets chop down the pine tree in the front yard and plant a Japanese maple", "Jared has baseball practice, you need to take him", "Jacob has soccor practice, you need to take him", "We have this family function to go to", "We have that family function to go to", and "blah..blah...blah."
While this is all true Tony, the downside is that I have to travel 500 miles to see my kids, instead of seeing them everyday. You win.

So I am down to all of the little details that can take a long time to get done. Basically I am down to "connecting the dots." I got a small tube that goes from the power steering reservoir to the power steering pump. That allowed me to install the power steering pulley and finalize the accessory drive with a belt. I really like the Katech belt tensioner. I had some belt throwing issues on the RX7 and I am sure that this will cure any potential issues.

https://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo51.jpg

I also mounted the fuse and relay panel that came with the GMPP harness. Originally I thought I wanted to mount it on the radiator support. This would have made it less obvious. The downside to that is that all of the wires would need to be lengthened. I really didn't feel like doing that. Having it on the firewall gives me quick access to all of the fuses and the relays. There is also a "check engine" LED installed in the fuse panel. Having it on the firewall will allow me to quickly glance and see if there are any trouble codes. The number one reason for putting it on the firewall is that it allowed me to cover up some of the holes that were there from the coil and ignition box.

https://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo52.jpg

I also installed and bled the new, .700" bore clutch MC. The Keisler kit came with a .750" bore but I wanted a softer pedal and less bearing travel. You can see the hardline going from the MC down along the frame rail. It then mates with the braided line coming off the throw out bearing.

https://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo53.jpg

Speaking of MCs. I also changed the brake MC. This one is a 15/16" bore MC from a 1977 Malibu. While I had no issues with my S10 quick take up MC, I was a little concerned about the shallow pushrod dimple. This MC has a very deep pushrod hole as well as a little snap ring that keep the pushrod retained inside the MC.

https://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo54.jpg

Tomorrow I need to order some radiator hose couplers from Jags That Run.

Andrew

[trapin]

While this is all true Tony, the downside is that I have to travel 500 miles to see my kids, instead of seeing them everyday. You win.
If you ever wanna borrow mine for a few weeks you're more than welcome. LOL!!!

But I stand corrected, sir. You make a good point. :)

[andrewb70]

Since this was a truck engine there are a few things on it that are specific to being in a truck. The oil filler tube in the valve cover is one of those things, and the other is the dipstick. While both of these items are perfectly functional, they look a little out of place with the low, car style intake. Here is what I am talking about:

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo55.jpg

The short filler tube is from a C6. You can see how much better it looks than the tall truck style filler. Same goes for the dipstick. Here you can see the C6 dipstick tube. (I am still waiting for the dipstick to arrive)

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo56.jpg

The total for the 3 items at the local dealership was just over $40. No doubt mail order would be less, but then you have to add shipping. If you are ordering a bunch of other parts it would make sense to include these small items.

A while back I also received this handy, dandy fitting adapter kit:

Metric fitting kit (http://www.iequus.com/product_info.php?product_id=6848)

I used the adapters to install my oil filter sender behind the intake manifold, as well as to install the water temperature sending unit into the passenger side head:

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo57.jpg

Another company that has great products for adapting LSx engines into all kinds of cars is Jags That Run (http://www.jagsthatrun.com). JTR offers these simple aluminum tubes that allow you to mate up two radiator hoses of different diameters. This make making radiator hoses a breeze. Here is the adapter for the lower hose. It reduces the 1 3/4" lower radiator hose on my radiator, to the 1 1/2" hose on the thermostat housing of LSx engines:

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo58.jpg

I got the hoses at O'Reilly's autoparts. The little 90 degree upper hose was PN 20267.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo59.jpg

The lower hose was PN 21064. It has the perfect bend that follows the frame and included an internal spring. Here is the end result after the hoses were trimmed and joined together by the coupler:

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo60.jpg

Look for more updates this evening.

Andrew

[wiedemab]

Wow Andrew - your getting close! Nice work by the way. This thread has been very informative. You seem very methodical with the steps of the installation. I tend to get ahead of myself too much. You've gotten a lot done in a short period of time without take shortcuts - it just goes to prove that if it's done right the first time you'll save time in the long-run.

Will we be seeing the Goat at RTH?

[Rybar]

Andrew, I just stumbled on this awesome thread. Very informative. I just went through it today. My brother has an L92 in his Escalade and the the thing moves for its size. Keep us posted!

[andrewb70]

Wow Andrew - your getting close! Nice work by the way. This thread has been very informative. You seem very methodical with the steps of the installation. I tend to get ahead of myself too much. You've gotten a lot done in a short period of time without take shortcuts - it just goes to prove that if it's done right the first time you'll save time in the long-run.

Will we be seeing the Goat at RTH?

Thanks for the kind words. It really helps that I am ver, very familiar with my car. Having done most of the work on it myself, I know exactly what was done in the past. It also helps that I have done two LSx swaps into RX7s. While the cars are obviously different many of the issues that go with swapping the engine are very similar.

My goal is to have the car fully sorted out and ready for RTTH IV.

Andrew

[Code Red]

awesome

[Motown 454]

Hi Andrew nice build I like those Ls engines. If I didn't have my engine already I would be putting one in my car. Keep the updates comming very interesting.
Wayne

[andrewb70]

I spent all day in the garage today, but I am afraid that there wasn't really anything new to show you guys. I did a lot more of "connecting the dots." I found the wire under the dash that went back to the relay for my fuel pump. This was used by the Commander 950 to turn on the pump. The GMPP harness already had a relay for the fuel pump, but I really like taking power directly from the battery to run the fuel pump. So after consulting with a couple of folks I decided to just run two relays. The relay in the harness activates the relay in the back of the car. After hooking everything up it worked perfectly. When the ignition key is in the "Run" position the pump primes for about 5 seconds and then shuts off.

Since I got all of the coolant hoses hooked up, I went ahead and filled the system. I filled the radiator. Then I filled the block through the upper radiator hose. I fired it up and ran the engine for a while. The O2 sensors are not hooked up and as it warmed up, and went into closed loop, it started idling a little rough, but it did not die. So I let it idle and warm up a bit. The stock thermostat is probably around 205 and the ECU turns on the fans at 212. The lower radiator hose stayed relatively cool until the thermostat opened. Once that happened, I just topped off the radiator and hopefully that will do it. The fans kicked on at around 212 as they were supposed to. Nice thing about the GTO is that I already had a giant Be Cool radiator. I never had any issues with the 502 and I am sure it will cool this engine just fine. The RX7 had half the radiator, and almost no grill, and I didn't have any issues.

Now I need a little help from everyone. The GMPP harness instruction say that the tach signal is a low voltage 2 pulse square wave. It also said that some older tachs may require a pull up resistor in order to function properly. I hooked up the wire from the tack and sure enough it did not work. So, what the heck is a pull up resistor and how do I hook it up?

I am trying really hard to resist project "scope creep." So with some luck this thing will move under its own power next weekend. LS swap in less than 2 months, not bad, if I do say so myself.

Andrew

[wiedemab]

I'm not an Electrical engineer, but I did some Googling and found these links. The first one makes it seem pretty easy in theory.

http://www.seattlerobotics.org/encoder/mar97/basics.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pull-up_resistor

I guess the purpose is to limit the current through the circuit. One site says that the most common sizes for logic circuits are 10K ohm or 47K ohm.

It looks like the resistor just goes in the tach signal line??????????

Good Luck - I'm looking forward to learning something here. If you don't figure anything by the first of the week - I'll be seeing a buddy of mine who is an EE on Monday, so I can ask him.

Keep up the good work!

[Bow Tie 67]

Andrew,

You may have already solved this issue but here goes anyway.

http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=894418&highlight=resistor+up+pull

Matt

[andrewb70]

Matt,

Thank you! I searched over there but wasn't coming up with anything.

Andrew

[andrewb70]

Andrew,

You may have already solved this issue but here goes anyway.

http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=894418&highlight=resistor+up+pull

Matt
So today I did as the thread above indicated. I installed a 1K Ohm resistor between a switched power source and the tach signal wire:

https://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo61.jpg

The tach worked, but the needle was kind of jumpy below 1000 RPM. Any electronics experts have a suggestion?

Andrew

[wiedemab]

I thought I read somewhere that if it was still jumpy at low RPM to go to a bigger resistor, but I wouldn't swear to it.

[parsonsj]

Me too. See if you can get a 10K resistor and give that a try.

jp

[Bow Tie 67]

So today I did as the thread above indicated. I installed a 1K Ohm resistor between a switched power source and the tach signal wire:

The tach worked, but the needle was kind of jumpy below 1000 RPM. Any electronics experts have a suggestion?

Andrew



Up the resistance somewhat, say 1200 ohms ( just a guess ), this will shave off some of the " pull up " amperage which is making it sensitive at low rpm. Basically this circuit is adding voltage ( making it a 12v signal ) to the " low voltage 2 pulse square wave " so the tach can use it.

Ohm's law I ( amps ) = V ( volts ) x R ( resistance )

We have a constant 12v source adjust ( R ) to adjust ( I )

10K maybe to large although resistors are cheap its your call, going up in resistance is a safe direction. :)

[andrewb70]

Thanks for the advice guys. You are being way more helpful than Autometer was just a few minutes ago. Basically they told me that they have been unsuccessful in making their tachometers work with the low voltage signal that comes off late model ECU output wires. Their suggestion was to purchase the 9117 box that taps directly into the coil harness and converts the signal (whatever that means) to a square wave that can be read by the tach. My initial reaction is that this is BS :wedgie: , to get me to buy an $80 dollar box that costs them 5 bucks (at most) to make. I am going back to Radio Shack for a collection of 99 cent resistors.

This brings up another point. Why couldn't the GM engineer who worked on the GMPP harness pick up the phone and dial up Autometer, VDO, and Stewart Warner? Between those 3 brands I bet you will cover 95% of the aftermarket gauge market. It would have been a 15 minute discussion to determine what these tachometers need in order to function properly. The information could have been easily outline in the harness instructions. Instead, they put this in the documentation of the harness:

"Note the signal is a low voltage square wave, some older style of tachometers may need a pull-up resistor in order to read the signal -- this detail is left to the user"

WTF?!?!?! :throw:

Andrew

[wiedemab]

I see a product in here. Lets buy a tach from all of the major gauge players and figure out what resistor works for each, make a little plug in resistor circuit and sell it!

Who's on board? Not sure the market is big enough and the price would be pretty low for such a product, but we'd be helping people:angel:

Later

[parsonsj]

I want to get my old Holley Commander and an MSD ignition box and see if the need for a pull-up resistor was what kept those two boxes from working together!

jp

[trapin]

Well I don't get it. There are many Gen III conversions out there and I have to think some have Autometer Gauges. What did they do to get it to work?

[wiedemab]

, to get me to buy an $80 dollar box that costs them 5 bucks (at most) to make.

They may have bought the $80 Box, I'm not sure. I'm far from being educated in LS swaps.

[Rubes]

Ohm's law I ( amps ) = V ( volts ) x R ( resistance )

I'm glad I'm flying on United next week...LOL

ohms law = voltage/current x resistance
so current =voltage DIVIDED BY resistance (not multiplied)

other than that your comments are correct.

[Bow Tie 67]

Oops, its a good thing the aircraft have redundant systems. *** sound of air-raid siren ***

[wiedemab]

Good catch Rubes. I didn't even pay any attention.

[andrewb70]

So after being a little ticked off this morning about the whole tachometer ordeal I decided to make some calls. I called my buddy John Parsons and he gave me a quick run down of Ohms Law. So I decided that instead of getting a collection of various resistors I would get a 10K Ohm potentiometer and see what works best. So I hooked up the potentiometer to the tach and set it to the 10K setting. Fired up the car and the tach seemed to work fine at low RPM. I then kept reducing the resistance until the tach stopped responding. The I zeroed in on the lowest setting where the tach responded smoothly. I then turned off the car and measured the resistance across the potentiometer. It rea 3.9K Ohms. So I gave myself some headroom and installed a 4.7K Ohm resistor. So far so good. The tach does seem to flutter ever so slightly at about 800 RPM, but there are no random fluctuations to zero. I think that will do it.

I also went to Napa and they had the Gates heat shrink hose clamps in stock. They only had a couple of sizes, but I was able to do the upper radiator hose:

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo62.jpg

I have to say that the hose clamps work as advertised. I will order some extras from McMaster just to have them around.

I also finished bleeding the brakes, filled up the transmission with fluid, and tightened up the rear suspension bolts. Hopefully next weekend I can get it into the fabricator to have the exhaust finishes up.

Andrew

[trapin]

How do those work, Andrew? Do you shrink them with a heat gun to compress them onto the pipe? Are they reuseable?

[andrewb70]

How do those work, Andrew? Do you shrink them with a heat gun to compress them onto the pipe? Are they reuseable?

You got the idea Tony. They are just thick sections of heavy duty heat shrink tubing. They are not reusable. To take them off you have to cut them off. There is a special tool that McMaster sells, or they also recommend using a soldering iron to melt it without the risk of cutting the hose.

Andrew

[jackfrost]

I'm not saying it won't, but I'll be impressed if they hold pressure well for a long time.

they look trick, though.

[parsonsj]

Those clamps will work indefinitely. Their only downside is that they aren't reusable.

jp

[kball]

Freightliner uses the same thing on all their hose connections now on the big trucks as well as Volvo I believe. Haven't seen a leak yet.

[jackfrost]

cool. i'm in.

[andrewb70]

The Big Brown truck showed up today with the hose clamps from McMaster Carr. I got the big clamps to do the 1.75" section of the lower radiator hose, as well as some smaller clamps to do the heater hose.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo63.jpg

In retrospect, I should have installed the little hose reducer a little further back in the heater hose so it would not be so visible, but oh well. It's done.

One thing that I learned while working on the RX7 is that the LSx engines are a little finicky to "burp." One trick that really helps is to fill the engine through the upper radiator hose. What this does is fill the block as much as possible before the engine is even started. After filling the engine through the upper hose, I fired it up and topped off the radiator. I don't think that cooling will be an issue at all with this engine. I have a huge Be Cool radiator and it took about 20 minutes for the engine to reach 210. Once the thermostat opened I topped off the radiator again. The fans kicked on at just over 210 (the ECU documentation said they are supposed to kick on at 212) and it only took about 10 seconds for the temp to drop enough for the fans to shut off. Driving around I don't think the fans will kick on at all.

Andrew

[andrewb70]

In a previous update I mentioned that I swapped out my brake master cylinder for another one. I did this mainly to resolve an issue with the push rod retention method. The MC that I am currently using has a nice deep pushrod hole as well as a clip on the tip of the pushrod that retains it inside the MC. Just because everything bolted up fine, doesn’t mean that this MC will work in my application. The pedal seemed to be very high and the pedal effort is rather high. So I decided to see what was really happening at the caliper. I went to my local hydraulic hose retailer and picked up an inexpensive pressure gauge. After installing the gauge in a bleeder screw in my caliper I had a friend step on the break pedal and to see what kind of pressure was being generated. Keep in mind that Wilwood rates their calipers at a maximum of 1200psi. From what I understand, past that point the caliper starts to deflect. So here is the result:

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo64.jpg

With moderate pedal effort my friend was able to generate a fairly easy 800-1000psi at the caliper. By pushing a little harder I am sure that he was going past 1200psi. With all that being said, I think that this MC will work just fine. The pedal effort will be moderate and the braking will be excellent!

Andrew

[Apogee]

Very nice build Andrew...just (re)read through the whole thread and it's amazing what you've been able to accomplish in such a short time. I wish my projects moved half that fast but I've got no one to blame but myself. For now I'll just have to live any future LSx swap vicariously through you.

Tobin
KORE3

[trapin]

Andrew...manual brakes in this car?

[andrewb70]

Andrew...manual brakes in this car?

Yes Sir. I've always had manual brakes in this car. Love them!

Andrew

[Nine Ball]

I just spent over an hour reading through this. Great write-up Andrew! The only thing I'd recommend is putting all the part #'s down if you were to do it again.

Looking forward to seeing that GTO perform with the new combo.

Tony

[andrewb70]

I just spent over an hour reading through this. Great write-up Andrew! The only thing I'd recommend is putting all the part #'s down if you were to do it again.

Looking forward to seeing that GTO perform with the new combo.

Tony

Thanks for the compliments Tony!

One thing I would like to clarify. I mentioned in a previous thread that the brake MC is from 1979 Malibu. It fact it is from a 1977 Malibu . I am using a Raybestos PN MC39946. It includes the pushrod, but it must be modified to mate with the A-body pedals.

Andrew

[andrewb70]

Big day today. After a rather dismal, windy day yesterday, the weather today was just amazing. I needed a little inspiration so I decided that it was time for the GTO to move under its own power. I so installed a seat, put on some wheels, cleared out the tools, and pulled it out of the garage.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo65.jpg

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo66.jpg

Of course I couldn't resist. So I went around the block. The clutch is silky smooth. Converting from the old Z-bar to the hydraulic release was definitely worth it. The clutch actuation is just like on a modern car. Super smooth. I still don't have exhaust so the drive was short. The brakes felt solid so the MC is working well. I also noticed some noises which I think are the result of my messing around with driveline angles. I raised the back of my transmission to get the angles perfect, but now the u-joint is grazing the floor. More on driveline angles later.

Notice how much higher the front sits. I bet it's up a minimum of 2". I can't wait to get the thing scaled. I am also contemplating getting a fiberglass hood and ditching the shaker. The stock hood is probably 40-50 lbs, plus another 10 lbs for the shaker. A Glasstek fiberglass hood is probably about 25 lbs. I am open to opinions.

Andrew

[69Nova]

Awsome! I say if you can get a fiberglass hood to fit right do it. How low do you think your gonna go in the front?

[Young Gun]

looks good!

[67goatman455]

ill take any spare parts, lol. i love the car, cant wait till you get it completely driveable.

[trapin]

When did you find time to paint the car orange?




LOL!! Joking. Gotta love cell phone camaras.

That's awesome news about getting to drive it. That point seems so far away for me. I can't even imagine the feeling.

[andrewb70]

This is an update for the techno geeks. If you like looking at pretty pictures, stop reading now, and move on. If being diligent about every little technical detail of your car is something that you enjoy doing, than please read on.

Ever since I have owned my car, all 23 years, I have had some sort of vibration in the driveline at speeds about 70 MPH. Most of the equipment on my car has changed numerous times. The only constant being the ride height. In recent weeks I have really been studying what actually happens with these cars when they are lowered. I give a lot of credit to Troy, I forget his user name here. LOL He and I have exchanged some messages back and forth and he has really helped me to understand what it will take to make my car smooth. This is a thread that he started on Chevelles.com:

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213271

There is also another great website that I used:

http://www.vibratesoftware.com/html_help/html/Diagnosis/Propshaft/Propshaft_Angles.htm

This is by far the best website for explaining and measuring driveline angles.

The problem with GM A-bodies is that as the cars are lowered in the rear and front working angle increases dramatically. While it is possible to match the the rear working angle to the front working angle with adjustable upper control arms in the rear, this still does not address the problem of just having too much working angle.

I have no doubt that I will get 10 different opinion on this post. There seems to be a lot of conflicting information when it comes to driveline angles. I feel that the information in the above website is the most accurate that I have seen to date.

For the sake of this discussion I will always refer to something pointing UP when it is pointing from the back to the front of the car. Like this:

[front] \ [rear] = UP

[front] / [rear] = DOWN

I made a spacer which raised the back of the transmission about 1/2". My final readings were as follows:

Transmission: 2.5* UP
Driveshaft: .3* UP
Pinion: 2* DOWN

Front working angle: 2.5 - 0.3 = 2.2*
Rear working angle: 2 + 0.3 = 2.3*

I ran the car on jackstands and took it up to about 4000 RPM in 6th gear, which is over 5000RPM driveshaft speed. It seemed very smooth. Much more so than at other setting. The ultimate test will be how the car feels at speed.

Andrew

[Bow Tie 67]

I have been dealing with adjusting the drive-line angles on my setup also. What has me going is the math. If you lower the transmount, which will increase a positive reading. Lets say from 4* to 4.5* and the drive-shaft is 2* prior to adjustment, your orig working angle is 4-2= 2*. When we lower the rear of the trans to 4.5* the front of the d.s. will lower slightly thus reducing its angle from 2* so with a larger trans angle and a smaller d.s. angle the math equates to a larger working angle when if fact you have just physically reduced the working angle.

What am I missing?

[Smock67]

Thats is certainly something i never knew. Quite interesting.

[trapin]

I'm concerned about the driveline angle on my car too. I did just as everyone said, put an angle finder on the face of the damper and lowered with drivetrain down until I had 1*. Bolted up the crossmember and installed the driveshaft and I swear the engine looks like it's angled too much in the engine cabin. But I don't know jack squat about setting up suspensions so I guess I won't know if it's a problem till I go to drive it. Until then I'll just follow along with what Andrew is doing. Good tech Andrew.

[andrewb70]

I have been dealing with adjusting the drive-line angles on my setup also. What has me going is the math. If you lower the transmount, which will increase a positive reading. Lets say from 4* to 4.5* and the drive-shaft is 2* prior to adjustment, your orig working angle is 4-2= 2*. When we lower the rear of the trans to 4.5* the front of the d.s. will lower slightly thus reducing its angle from 2* so with a larger trans angle and a smaller d.s. angle the math equates to a larger working angle when if fact you have just physically reduced the working angle.

What am I missing?

Assuming that you start with the engine UP and the driveshaft UP, when you lower the transmission it will point UP more, and the driveshaft will point UP less.

So lets say you start with 4* UP on the transmission and 2* UP on the driveshaft, so your originaly working angle is 2*.

Now you lower the transmission and it is at 5* UP and the driveshaft 1.5* UP, your working angle is now 3.5*.

Does that make sense?

Andrew

[Bow Tie 67]

Yes now it does, the only way I could see it was to put two pencils together and rotate them.

When I read the bottom of the page in the link below it states " If the front working angle needs to be decreased, lower the transmission. Keep in mind that this will also cause the front working angle to decrease." The fact is its the opposite for a car. Now take your pencils and simulate a 4 x 4 driveshaft and thats true, simulate a car and its the opposite.

Dam that was driving me nuts!!

http://www.vibratesoftware.com/html_help/html/Diagnosis/Reference/transmission_angle_changing.htm


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/2232148017-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=148017)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/2232148018-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=148018)https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/%5Burl=http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=148017%5D%5Bimg%5Dhttp://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/2232148017.jpg%5B/img%5D%5B/url%5D
https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/%5Burl=http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=148018%5D%5Bimg%5Dhttp://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/2232148018.jpg%5B/img%5D%5B/url%5D

[andrewb70]

Right, in the truck example above, the engine started out pointing DOWN. So when the transmission was lowered, the working angle decreased.

In my car I had to raise the back of the transmission in order to reduce the front working angle. I wish I could raise it even more, but the u-joint is already very close to the floor boards. This is the reason that Troy replaced the entire driveshaft tunnel in his Chevelle. If I am still having issues, I will trim my tunnel a little further back and raise it slightly to clear the u-joint. If I went up another 1/2" on the trans I think it would be perfect.

Andrew

[Bow Tie 67]

Even if the truck engine is pointing up it will still decrease. Which is due to the fact a trucks driveshaft has a much more pronounced upward angle to begin with. Now that I think about it, a better way to explain the difference is to show the driveshaft centerline ( pivot point ). An auto has the pivot point much closer to the engine / trans centerline when viewed from the side where a truck has more distance. Here is a very crude drawing with pronounced angles to illustrate. Left to right engine / d.s. / diff.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/2232148055-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=148055)

[Code Red]

Big day today. After a rather dismal, windy day yesterday, the weather today was just amazing. I needed a little inspiration so I decided that it was time for the GTO to move under its own power. I so installed a seat, put on some wheels, cleared out the tools, and pulled it out of the garage.

Of course I couldn't resist. So I went around the block. The clutch is silky smooth. Converting from the old Z-bar to the hydraulic release was definitely worth it. The clutch actuation is just like on a modern car. Super smooth. I still don't have exhaust so the drive was short. The brakes felt solid so the MC is working well. I also noticed some noises which I think are the result of my messing around with driveline angles. I raised the back of my transmission to get the angles perfect, but now the u-joint is grazing the floor. More on driveline angles later.

Notice how much higher the front sits. I bet it's up a minimum of 2". I can't wait to get the thing scaled. I am also contemplating getting a fiberglass hood and ditching the shaker. The stock hood is probably 40-50 lbs, plus another 10 lbs for the shaker. A Glasstek fiberglass hood is probably about 25 lbs. I am open to opinions.

Andrew

I prefer the stock GTO hoods personally

[andrewb70]

Today I got the notice of approval from Grundy Insurance. On Monday I will go get the car registered and it will be legal to drive on the street. I also ordered a new 3" to 3" Dr. Gas x-pipe. This will just make the exhaust work a little simpler and cleaner. That should be here on Monday.

I had to take this picture for Tony Rapin, cause he was busting my balls about my car being orange...LOL

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo67.jpg

Andrew

[tom_a]

Andrew,

Congrats on being so close! You really make it look easy dude.

I don't want to get to off topic on your thread...but I am trying to learn from your prior post on driveline angles. Keep in mind this is more academic as I realize things will change with the body on.
I bought a digital level from Home Depot that states accuracy +/- .1 degree. *Sorry for the crappy cell phone pics
What I did not realize was there is no option to use a 90 degrees. So transmission came out 88.8 down \ which comes to 1.2 degrees
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
The rear came out at 87.2 / which comes to 2.8
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
So if I am calculating correctly I have a 1.6 working angle?
FYI: I don't have a driveline yet and as we discussed I am considering doing the tunnel mod that Troy did....I don't really want to but I hope to set the body on this weekend just to get a better feel.

Thanks,

[subtlez28]

I had to take this picture for Tony Rapin, cause he was busting my balls about my car being orange.

FWIW
I like it in orange!

Great progress Andrew!

You should bring it up to a race a Autobahn this year!

[andrewb70]

Tom,

You need a driveshaft to determine the working angle. If I was building my car from scratch today, I would make it so the engine and transmission are level to the frame. This would most certainly necessitate the need for modifying the transmission tunnel.

Andrew

[tom_a]

Thanks.

Tom

[andrewb70]

FWIW
I like it in orange!

Great progress Andrew!

You should bring it up to a race a Autobahn this year!

Shaun,

Do you have a link for a schedule of events?

Andrew

[subtlez28]

http://www.mcscc.org/events.php

May 24 - 25- 26 Blackhawk Farms Lapping Day - W2W - HSAX
June 7 - 8 Autobahn CC North HSAX / Race
June 28 29 Blackhawk Farms HSAX / Race
July 19 - 20 Blackhawk Farms Driver School / Race
Aug 9 - 10 Blackhawk Farms HSAX / Race
September 20 - 21 Blackhawk Farms HSAX / Race
October 4 - 5 Autobahn South HSAX / Race

[andrewb70]

I was going through some old paperwork this afternoon and I found my old corner scale sheet. Here are the numbers with driver:

[Front Left]-------------------------[Front Right]
1218----------------------------------1153



[Rear Left]---------------------------[Rear Right]
929------------------------------------884

Total Weight = 4184

56.7% front
43.4% rear

Andrew

[subtlez28]

Cool to see the scale #s!

I definately want to corner scale my car b4 I take it apart. I wish I had done it stock. W/ the iron intake, AC stuff and big crash bumper hanging on the front.

I was hoping the L92 and other lightening would bring the weight down to at least near the weight of my Camaro (3600 w/ driver), or hopefully less. But these #s worry me. I realize your car had the big block, but I would think a 70 would be lighter, and you had aluminum heads/intake, and no A/C, right?

On the plus side the front/rear balance isn't bad for a big block a-body. My LS1 4th gen has a 56.1%/43.9% split. So I still hope to better the 4th gen in the balance department. And of course more rubber, and more HP!

[Rolling_Thunder]

Damn that is a heavy car... i didnt know goats were heavy hitters... I corner scaled a customer's 71 Challenger with a 528 hemi and a 5-speed with driver and it came out to 3210lbs

Good to see the progress man!

[trapin]

I'm sure he'll be under 4K now that the big block is gone.

[andrewb70]

Damn that is a heavy car... i didnt know goats were heavy hitters... I corner scaled a customer's 71 Challenger with a 528 hemi and a 5-speed with driver and it came out to 3210lbs

Good to see the progress man!

Keep in mind that is with driver. The car was 3933 without my fat ass in it. Also keep in mind that there is about 100 pounds of sound debtner in this car, and about 100 pounds of sub woofer and amp. I wish I could remember how much gas it had when it was initially weighed.

I will be very happy if the car is about 3600 pounds now, with a much better weight distribution.

Andrew

[70 Chevelle]

Any plans to weigh her with the LS in it?Is she on the road?

[andrewb70]

Any plans to weigh her with the LS in it?Is she on the road?

I will have the car scaled. There is a great shop in Nashville that sets up circle track cars. He has a flat plate and scales. The plan is to get the corner weights perfect so the car handles as well as it can.

My x-pipe came in today, but I won't be able to get it welded up until Thursday. Aside from that and the shaker the car is buttoned up and ready for a long drive.

Tomorrow I will post pictures of how I ended up putting in the rear end travel limiters. These will keep the rear end from dropping too far down and the springs from dislodging from the upper pockets.

Andrew

[Finch]

I will have the car scaled. There is a great shop in Nashville that sets up circle track cars. He has a flat plate and scales. The plan is to get the corner weights perfect so the car handles as well as it can.

My x-pipe came in today, but I won't be able to get it welded up until Thursday. Aside from that and the shaker the car is buttoned up and ready for a long drive.

Tomorrow I will post pictures of how I ended up putting in the rear end travel limiters. These will keep the rear end from dropping too far down and the springs from dislodging from the upper pockets.

Andrew

Great progress Andrew, Let me know when if your coming down to Nashville with the car. I want a ride.

Brian,

[andrewb70]

Great progress Andrew, Let me know when if your coming down to Nashville with the car. I want a ride.

Brian,

Brian,

I will be down in the next couple of week to get the corner weights set.

Today I got the exhaust buttoned up. A new Dr.Gas x-pipe was installed and connected the headers to the mufflers. The car is very quiet. Almost too quiet. I has a nice deep tone. It is a hair louder than a new ZO6 Corvette. I got the wideband hooked up as well and as suspected the car was a little rich. Once I drove it a little the ECU started trimming the A/F ratio and now it is very close. I may not have to get it tuned at all. We'll see how the WOT A/F ratio is on the dyno.

I also weighed the car on the new scales at Beech Bend. I had 1/3 of a tank of gas, no hood, no passenger seat, and I was in the car. I think I am about 275.

Anyone care to guess what the car weighed?

Andrew

[trapin]

3525lbs

[compos mentis]

3850 lbs

[Young Gun]

3670 lbs

[andrewb70]

With me in it, no hood, no passenger seat, 1/3 tank of gas, it was 3828.

3823
minus 275 for my fat ass
add 50 for hood
add 25 for seat

3623

So it looks like the car lost a little under 300 pounds from the swap. Not bad. It will be really interesting to get the corner scale data.

Andrew

[tom_a]

Cool....any video coming with exhaust on now??

Tom

[Finch]

Brian,

I will be down in the next couple of week to get the corner weights set.

Today I got the exhaust buttoned up. A new Dr.Gas x-pipe was installed and connected the headers to the mufflers. The car is very quiet. Almost too quiet. I has a nice deep tone. It is a hair louder than a new ZO6 Corvette. I got the wideband hooked up as well and as suspected the car was a little rich. Once I drove it a little the ECU started trimming the A/F ratio and now it is very close. I may not have to get it tuned at all. We'll see how the WOT A/F ratio is on the dyno.

I also weighed the car on the new scales at Beech Bend. I had 1/3 of a tank of gas, no hood, no passenger seat, and I was in the car. I think I am about 275.

Anyone care to guess what the car weighed?

Andrew

Cool,

Give me a ring a day or so before you head down so we can meet up. I may even have the body back on the vette by then and you can take a little memory rod with the LS6.

[andrewb70]

Cool....any video coming with exhaust on now??

Tom

I will see what I can do Tom, but it is QUIET! I love it. I think I am officially turning into an old f***er.

Andrew

[tom_a]

I will see what I can do Tom, but it is QUIET! I love it. I think I am officially turning into an old f***er.

Andrew

Well, I am 38 also, so I must be old myself. I am sure it will sound nice at WOT.

Tom

[lt4malibu]

I will see what I can do Tom, but it is QUIET! I love it. I think I am officially turning into an old f***er.

Andrew

im only 28 and i LOVE quiet/sleeper cars...

ive been watching your thread on ls1tech, the swap is awesome!

[andrewb70]

im only 28 and i LOVE quiet/sleeper cars...

ive been watching your thread on ls1tech, the swap is awesome!

Thanks for the compliment!

This morning I took the GMAT test and my brain was sizzled. :hmm:

I got a replacement alternator in the mail today. I have to admit that the partsamerica.com exchange system works quickly and effortlessly. I just hope this alternator will last more than a few days. After installing it I drove around town and put about 50 miles on the car. The alternator seems fine and the car runs strong. I got on it a few times and it certainly feels as strong as the big block did, although the lack of torque is noticeable in second gear. I used to be able to break the tires loose from a roll in second. No more. That's not surprising and I am sure that the drag strip times will not be disappointing. This engine pulls like a freight train above 3000 RPM.

I also noticed that it is running fairly rich at WOT. My wideband was showing a steady 11.9:1. That is not surprising since I am using the LS7 tune up. Once the engine is broken in some more I will take it to my local tuner and tweak a little bit. There is no black smoke and no drivability issues at all. I should pull a plug.

On the highway there is still a little vibration above 80MPH. Before doing anything drastic I am going to double check the wheels and tires as well as the driveshaft. Since the car sat for a while it is entirely possible that the tires have developed some flat spots and that will certainly be felt at high speed.

Andrew

[andrewb70]

Tonight I went to Beech Bend for their Saturday night test and tune. With the hood back on, passenger seat installed, half tank of gas, race weight was 3941 with me in it. I was running the same Nitto 555s that were installed back in 2002. Needless to say, they are a little hard. The temperature was about 85 degrees and very humid. After a few crusty passes, I managed to click off my best pass for the night.

60' 2.1
12.78 @ 111 MPH


I am pretty happy.

Andrew

[trapin]

Not bad. Not bad at all.

[andrewb70]

Not bad. Not bad at all.

Not bad indeed, considering I can put a stack of champaign glasses on the engine and they would not topple over. That is how smooth it idles.

Andrew

[tom_a]

Congrats. Sounds like a little more in it with tires

[406 Q-ship]

Andrew, It ran a 12.7 without a tune and a 2.1 60' that is more than pretty good, considering what it will probably knock down in the mileage and fun to the mile.

[gearheads78]

Great build and nice wrie up. I have the same M/C and will be running manual brakes. Glad to here its working. Thats also great info about the driveline angles.

[69Nova]

Very cool. What did it run with the previous engine?

[andrewb70]

Very cool. What did it run with the previous engine?

Once the shaker is working and the rest of the intake is finalized, I will get it tuned. It's pretty fat at WOT right now. So between a tune and the cold air from the shaker I bet it will pick up 15-20rwhp.

My best times with the 502 were during Real Street Eliminator. I ran 12.1x consistantly @ 114-115 mph. That was on a small set of ET Streets, getting 1.8x 60 foot times.

Andrew

[gearbanger]

Dude, did you take it to Bowling Green, KY Beech Bend? That is where I always go! That is only about 2 hours away from my house. I would love to get up with you over there and check out your car.

[69Nova]

Once the shaker is working and the rest of the intake is finalized, I will get it tuned. It's pretty fat at WOT right now. So between a tune and the cold air from the shaker I bet it will pick up 15-20rwhp.

My best times with the 502 were during Real Street Eliminator. I ran 12.1x consistantly @ 114-115 mph. That was on a small set of ET Streets, getting 1.8x 60 foot times.

Andrew

Sweet. I'd love to have my car in the 12's. That be more than enough power for what I want to do.

[andrewb70]

Dude, did you take it to Bowling Green, KY Beech Bend? That is where I always go! That is only about 2 hours away from my house. I would love to get up with you over there and check out your car.

Let me know the next time you are heading this way. I would be happy to hang out at the track.

I just had it chassis dynoed today. Anyone making guesses?

Andrew

[OLDFLM]

421rwhp/389ftlbs... it is a Pontiac afterall! LOL

[69Nova]

425whp

[gearbanger]

395rwh

[andrewb70]

421rwhp/389ftlbs... it is a Pontiac afterall! LOL

So close Ty!!!

It made 418/389, running pig rich. I didn't bother getting it tuned right now because the shaker needs to be finished up.

Andrew

[tom_a]

That's great. IIRC earlier in this post you expected to get 420hp at wheels with this set up and you were dead on. Great job! I am sure you will pick a few more. How was the intake plumbed now?