1970 GTO Version 2.0

[tom_a]

It also looks at your race weight and 418 at wheels that 12.3X ET are in your future :headbang:

[andrewb70]

It also looks at your race weight and 418 at wheels that 12.3X ET are in your future :headbang:
This bitch is running 11.9x. LOL

Andrew

[subtlez28]

I'm so glad you are build this L92!
I'm learning a lot!

I was going to keep the truck intake and VVT w the hopes of putting on a Magnuson in the coming years, but it looks like 500 crank horsepower is reachable w your mod formula and a tune.
tough to pass that up!

You are the man Andrew!

I was even looking at my Buick today thinking about going manual brakes.... I'm such a follower!:worship:

[andrewb70]

I'm so glad you are build this L92!
I'm learning a lot!

I was going to keep the truck intake and VVT w the hopes of putting on a Magnuson in the coming years, but it looks like 500 crank horsepower is reachable w your mod formula and a tune.
tough to pass that up!

You are the man Andrew!

I was even looking at my Buick today thinking about going manual brakes.... I'm such a follower!:worship:

No leg humping allowed. I am just a car geek like everyone else here.

If you do my setup, just get a Magnuson kit for a Corvette down the road.

Andrew

[OLDFLM]

So close Ty!!!

It made 418/389, running pig rich. I didn't bother getting it tuned right now because the shaker needs to be finished up.

Andrew

What do I win? My own L92 with free install? LOL

How 'bout a trip down here to help with my brake install?

That'd be a good road trip to break GTO in!

[70 Chevelle]

The numbers worked out well. Do you have the new corner weight numbers or just the total? Must be nice having a running,driving car again

[trapin]

The man said he would get 420 horsepower to the wheels and he wasn't lying. Good numbers Andrew. I have a feeling that little mill has more to give up once it's plugged in at the tuner.

[Steve1968LS2]

That engine bay looks the perfect size for an LS7 engine ;)

Very good to see the GTO getting some lovin again..

[andrewb70]

That engine bay looks the perfect size for an LS7 engine ;)

Very good to see the GTO getting some lovin again..

An LS7 would be nice, but I really don't see the need for all the dry sump stuff. This engine is making 90% of the power of an LS7 at half the cost.

Andrew

[Bow Tie 67]

Ca-Ching!! Excellent results

[trapin]

I have never understood people's infatuation with the LS7. Have you seen the size of the tank for the dry sump system? It's more trouble than it's worth to try and package that thing in there somewhere. Like trying to hide a mini air compressor in your car...and for what? There really isn't any REAL power or functional advantage over the engine that Rupp has in his car or that Andrew has in his. All 3 engines will do the same job.

[Ron S]

I agree,I'm just buttoning up my 6.0 L92 engine for my 68 Camaro,if you shop around,you can made 500 hp for less the $3500,and if you break something while pushing her beyond her limits,you don't want to put a gun in your mouth like you would if you bought an LS7.Ron

[parsonsj]

I have never understood people's infatuation with the LS7I can, in one word: titanium. As in connecting rods. At least that's what I find so compelling about the LS7.

jp

[andrewb70]

The LS7 definitely has some cool technology. The titanium rods are very cool, as are the titanium valves, super flowing heads, dry sump oiling, and forged crank shaft.

Andrew

[compos mentis]

I have never understood people's infatuation with the LS7. All 3 engines will do the same job.
Bang for the buck, others surpass it but...

IMO I think a big part is the cachet it carries from the factory it is a 427/ 500+hp motor plus its got the goodies like JP mentioned.

A lot of us like to build and sell soon after so obviously it helps resale values also.

I'm seriously considering one for all the above reasons to stick in a '55 Chevy.

[trapin]

.....The titanium rods are very cool, as are the titanium valves, super flowing heads, dry sump oiling, and forged crank shaft.

Andrew
I guess it just all comes down to preference. If it's something you prefer, fine but I'd never pay an additional $6500 over an LS2 to get all that stuff because I thought that I needed it. You can get an extra 100 ponies out of a crate LS2 with a camshaft and set of long tube headers and you ain't gonna break any rods or valves. And I highly doubt that in the event you wanted to race it you would have any oil starvation issues either.

That's the side of the fence I'm on. I know my grass ain't as green over here but at least in my scenario I have an extra $6500 in the pocket. I'd rather save it there then have to make it up later when I go to sell.

But that's just me...I always look at the fiscal side of it. You tend to do that when you're cash poor. LOL!!!!

[parsonsj]

Well... since we're among friends here: I would choose the LS2 or LS3 myself too.

If I had my choice, and money wasn't an issue, I'd use an LS7 (or even an LS9).

Andrew and I have talked about it several times: I've considered de-tuning my car and going back to an LS2 with a factory ECU. Sometimes my car is just too much of a prima donna. :)

jp

[jackfrost]

ok, I know I'm a n00b, but if you're talking bang-for-the-buck, I would start with a core motor, either a Gen I SBC or LS1 and build it completely custom from the ground up. you can easily build a 500hp motor for $7k. and for $13k you could build something really badass.

[compos mentis]

What would you rather have, a LS7 or a 427 ZL-1 based motor with EFI?

(not the Anniversary 427 ZL-1 since I don't think pricing has been made public yet )

[parsonsj]

LS7. Every day, and twice on Sunday. More power, lighter weight, better engineering.

jp

[andrewb70]

LS7. Every day, and twice on Sunday. More power, lighter weight, better engineering.

jp

No contest there. I would even take an LS6 over a fuel injected old big block, even if it had an aluminum block.

Andrew

[parsonsj]

I'll bet you'd even take an L92 truck version over a 502 big block. :)

jp

[andrewb70]

I'll bet you'd even take an L92 truck version over a 502 big block. :)

jp

You better believe it!

Andrew

[tom_a]

I agree with Tony about LS2/3 over an LS7. I battled with the same thing on my project. The LS7 is what I wanted but it was hard to justify over an LS2 on top of the more time it would have taken to save for that. When I got a chance to buy the LS3 for 6K less wtr pump and coils (which added about $350) I jumped on it. LS7 = 13K plus all the dry sump ?? maybe another 800.00 so with $7450 left over can go to harness headers, radiator or what ever. I know the LS7 is superior but I liken it to more of a "Country Club" my car got this and that etc. Andrew is the one who ended up with the best deal with regards to what he paid for it. 418Rwp compared to a recent dyno of an LS7 at 498rwp with katech cam that adds $600.00. Andrews likely has 9k less invested and only is giving up 80rwhp. You could buy a maggie turn key kit $6600.00 for your L92 surpass the cammed LS7 and still have change left over. This thread was awesome and I love Andrew's approach to his hole build. It's good for us guy's with lower budgets. It's all about wallet size and opinion and sure I would love the LS7 or even LS9 but just not in my cards.

[Ron S]

Those high dollar peices are nice,but to go to that extreme,i would have to sacrifice somewhere else,suspension,brakes etc.I took a truck 5.7 hemi I got out of a junk yard for $800,stuck a cam and headers on it and went 12.40 and made a 373rwhp.I now have a 6.0 in my Camaro that i got out of the same junk yard for $800 which had a 12,000 miles but a broken head,stuck a set of L92's a big cam,and GM injected 4bbl intake with edelbrock elbow can't wait to see what kind of numbers it makes.I do love that GTO.Ron

[trapin]

You save $6500-$7000 on your engine....there's a Detroit Speed front subframe or a complete Air Ride Shockwave system right there. Bonus.

Alright....let's get Andrew's thread back on topic. Commercial break is over...back to our regularly scheduled program.

[compos mentis]

Alright....let's get Andrew's thread back on topic. Commercial break is over...back to our regularly scheduled program.

Whoa...wait a minute, we were helping taking the pressure off Andrew of having to be in control of the most interesting thread on this board currently, no offense to other thread 'bearers' here personally. :woot:

[gearbanger]

I love reading these arguments about what is best and why. My father in law likes to talk about how bad his 2006 vette is until I walk in the room, then he switches over to how good of gas milage it gets and how cold the AC is!:razz: :razz:

While we're all talking about what we would do, I'll just say I would stick with my $5,000 pontiac motor. So far it runs a 12.56 @ 114 on 295/45/18 hard radials, with no tune up, through the mufflers, with no drag racing goodies at all. It only gets a measley 18 mpg on the 4 hour round trip drive to the strip though, but hey, 89 octane is cheap.:)

I still love Andrews car though.

[andrewb70]

Whoa...wait a minute, we were helping taking the pressure off Andrew of having to be in control of the most interesting thread on this board currently, no offense to other thread 'bearers' here personally. :woot:

That's about as great of a compliment as I could ever hope for. Thank you!

Andrew

[compos mentis]

That's about as great of a compliment as I could ever hope for. Thank you!

Andrew

Your very welcome Andrew, or should I say 'Quizmaster', voted offline as this threads most popular feature! :1st:

LOL

[andrewb70]

Being around car projects for a long time I can tell you that every build has a few dirty little secrets. Some have more than a few. My project is no different. When I got the car aligned the most caster that we could get was zero degrees. This might be due to frame sag, or who knows what, but thats how it was. This doesn't hurt the handling, per say, but it makes for a less than idea driving car. Without any caster the steering wheel doesn't snap back to center after making a turn. So you actually have to steer it out of a corner. Not the most ideal situation. So I called Mark at SC&C (http://www.scandc.com/) and he convinced me that his adjustable upper control arms are the way to go. I was going to get them at some point later because I want to swap to the AFX spindles, but not seemed like the perfect time.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo68.jpg

The SPC control arms will allow me to dial in more caster while not increasing negative camber, and they will work with the AFX spindles.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo69.jpg

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo70.jpg

When taking everything apart I noticed that my QA1 shocks were leaking and pretty much not working. This is most likely due to the fact that the car sat for a long time. So a new set is on the way and will be here tomorrow. I will send the old ones to get rebuilt and it will be good to have a spare set, just in case.

I am in a bit of a rush because I want to take the car on a road trip to Chicago on Saturday...:banghead:

Andrew

[compos mentis]

I'm glad you found out about the leaky shocks.

Looking forward to hearing how the control arms work.

[cdoggy81]

Love the GOAT!!! I too have a thing for Pontiacs :)

What spring # did you go with for your fronts???

[andrewb70]

.....

What spring # did you go with for your fronts???

The coilover kit that I had with the big block had 550 lb/in springs. The kit that I got now will come with 450 lb/in springs. I am going to use the 450s and if that seems too soft, I will switch back to the 550s.

Andrew

[andrewb70]

Yesterday I got the new coilover kit and finished installing the control arms. I used the springs that came with the kit, which were 450 lb/in. In retrospect I should have stuck with the 550s. Oh well.

Here is the final ride height. It's pretty low, probably too low, but it look really good. I am leaving it for now.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo71.jpg

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo72.jpg

This morning I got the car aligned. The show here in town dabbles in circle track racing so they have a very nice Hunter laser alignment rack. We aligned the car with me in it with the following final specs:

Left -.5 camber +5.5 caster
Right -.5 camber +6.0 caster

zero toe

Now here is the cool part. The initial alignment was done with the control arm cross shafts right up against the frame. So with the street alignment settings in place, we did a second alignment using shims. With the shims in place I now have an auto cross alignment with the following specs:

Left -1.5 camber +6.0 caster
Right -1.5 camber +6.5 caster

slight toe out

So now when I got to an event I can take a wrench and in about 5 minutes install my shims for a more aggressive alignment. When I am done, just take them out and drive home on the street alignment.

Andrew

[tom_a]

Looks very good! Congrats

[trapin]

So is that it? You done?

When you get a chance shoot some pics with the SLR of the engine cabin and stance so we can do some proper drolling. LOL!!!

I think the stance looks mean, Andrew. If if the tires rub a little it's OK. Mark Stielow once told me, "It ain't a hot rod if the tires don't rub."

[6'9"Witha69]

Looks good Andrew.

When you say the 550s would have been better, in ride, handling or both?

[Ron S]

I do love that car.That year and the 65 are the prettiest Poncho's ever built in my opinion.Keep up the good work.Ron

[andrewb70]

Thanks guys! I love that quote Tony. Not it's officially a hot rod, since the tires do rub just a little when going into driveways and such.

Nick, the 550s would have been better because they would have been easier to install. With the QA1 coilover kit a certain level of pre-load is needed in the spring. So when you install it, you have to crank on the collar to compress the spring. Using the 550s would have required less pre-load to achieve the same ride height. The extra rate doesn't really hurt the ride at all. As a matter of fact, its hard to tell a difference between the 450s and the 550s in normal street driving. The handling feels very neutral. When taking tight 90 degree turns the back end swings around nicely.

Andrew

[cdoggy81]

Thanks for the info Andrew! I'm not trying to kill it on the road I just want it to ride nice & have the PT look + a little better performance but without bottoming out or riding like a stage coach... I would give up a bit of performance for a little better ride. I know most of the ride quality comes from the rear & I already have a Hotchkis Rear Leaf Spring kit (has a 1.5" drop & a little stiffer springs).


With my 1970 Trans Am I'm stuck between 350# (QA1 recommended), 450# (member recommended) & 550# (DSE recommended) springs for the front. The problem I'm running into is with the QA1 setup & the lighter LS1 I now have up front. Also, people have said when you adj. the QA1 down to drop the car more you loose a lot of travel & it bottoms easy. Something I want to avoid! One member recommended the Speedway 91645552 hidden spring shim to help this.

Here is what I'm planning on going with so LMK what you think:

QA1 GMP3450-3 450# front coil overs w/ 12 way adj. shocks
QA1 TC2109P rear 12 way adj. shocks

I currently also have:
DSE-030102 Tubular Upper Arm Kit - 70-81
DSE-010201 Body Mounts- 1/2" Drop (this will also help out)
DSE-031402 FRONT SWAY BAR 1-3/8" HOLLOW 70-81
DSE-010103 SUBFRAME CONNECTORS 1970- 1981
To save $ I stayed with the stock lower arms but went with GW Del-Alum bushings.
Hotchkis Rear Leaf Spring kit

I did talk to Frank & he recommended the old way...
Hotchkis 500# standard coil springs
Hotchkis f shocks
Hotchkis r shocks
2" Drop spindles

Not real sure about this + the added $$$... What are your thoughts on all this?

[andrewb70]

If I had to do it all over again, I would get lower control arms that have spring pockets. I am not so enamored with the QA1 coilover kit. There are some pretty neat solutions out there now that allow you to shim the spring to get your height and corner weights just right. Coilover sound great on paper, because you think "wow, I can change the ride height anytime I want." The truth is that once you have adjusted the ride height, your never going to change it. So keep it simple.

As for spring rates, don't be afraid of 550s. Ride quality is as much a function of shocks as it is springs.

You should buy my spindles and brakes! (https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39671)

Andrew

[andrewb70]

So is that it? You done?

When you get a chance shoot some pics with the SLR of the engine cabin and stance so we can do some proper drolling. LOL!!!

I think the stance looks mean, Andrew. If if the tires rub a little it's OK. Mark Stielow once told me, "It ain't a hot rod if the tires don't rub."
Tony,

Here is sort of a stance shot.

https://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo73.jpg

Andrew

[cdoggy81]

Great info & write up. Thanks Andrew & NICE ride man!!!

I found a nice shell & almost did a 1969 GTO myself with my 2004 GTO. I think it would have been a cool ride. It would have been black & looked something like this with the new red GTO interior & the lowered PT look on the outside (just like yours). Couldn't do it though... just love the look of the 70 Pontiac's!!!!

[trapin]

Ahh yes. That's more like it.

GaTagO lives again.

[67SSDan]

That thing is sweet man... I don't think it's too low at all. Looks perfect to me. Since it's finished, I'm assuming you're actually doing to bring it to RTTH this year??

Dan

[andrewb70]

That thing is sweet man... I don't think it's too low at all. Looks perfect to me. Since it's finished, I'm assuming you're actually doing to bring it to RTTH this year??

Dan

I'm definitely going to bring it to RTTH!

Andrew

[67SSDan]

I'm definitely going to bring it to RTTH!

Andrew

Sweet!

Dan

[andrewb70]

On Saturday morning I headed out towards Chicago. My journey started out on a beautiful, sunny morning. The temperature in Bowling Green was in the low 70s at 7:30am and it looked like the perfect day for a road trip. I was making good time but that quickly changed when I got to about 50 miles south of Indianapolis. The forecast called for thunderstorms but I had no idea what as about to hit. Keep in mind that up until this point my car has never been driven in the rain.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo74.jpg

Notice the large hole in my hood, later to be filled again by my shaker. i really wasn't worried about the engine getting wet, because I have hosed down the LS6 in my RX7 many times and it has never complained. All of the connectors are water tight so a little water on the intake won't hurt.

In this next picture the rain line can actually be seen. See how the pavement in front of me is dry, but just up ahead the semi going in the other direction has the giant rooster tail of water behind it. The sky was about to open up on me.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo75.jpg

The rain was unbelievable. With the wind gusting, it was actually raining sideways.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo76.jpg

Then as if it wasn't raining hard enough, it started coming down in sheets.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo77.jpg

More dirty little secrets about my car. It seems that it is not entirely water tight. After about 20 minutes of driving in the rain I noticed that both the driver's and passenger side carpet was soaking wet. I am not talking about just damp, but sopping wet. I suspected that the water was coming down the cowl and getting inside through the kick panel area. A few days ago I discovered that to be exactly the case. No names will get mentioned, but the passenger side cowl vent panel was installed by the same shop that installed my Vintage Air system. The panel where the hoses come through wasn't sealed against the body at all. Like I said before, the reputation of the shop doesn't mean s**t. It all boils down to that guy, making 15 bucks an hour, wrenching on the car.

In about a week I am going to drive the car from Chicago to Colorado for my (cough....cough...) 20th high school reunion.

Andrew

[Bow Tie 67]

Andrew,

What brought you up to Chicago? Do you know when you will have your car tuned?

Matt

[EFI69Cam]

In about a week I am going to drive the car from Chicago to Colorado for my (cough....cough...) 20th high school reunion.

Andrew

Just curious what high school did you go to? I went to Heritage in Littleton CO, also graduated in 88.

[parsonsj]

You drove that car in the rain with your custom "shaker" hood?

That took guts!

jp

[Rubes]

yep those storms were pretty crappy. Had I-57 closed on Sunday after tornadoes blew semi trucks and vans all over the road.

Too bad I'm leaving tomorrow morning for power tour, or we could have hooked up for some lie telling...LOL

Car looks good. It may just be the angle of the pic's, but it looks a little high actually. we should get some pics of yours and mine.

[andrewb70]

Just curious what high school did you go to? I went to Heritage in Littleton CO, also graduated in 88.

I graduated from Park HS in Estes Park. You got a PM.

Andrew

[andrewb70]

yep those storms were pretty crappy. Had I-57 closed on Sunday after tornadoes blew semi trucks and vans all over the road.

Too bad I'm leaving tomorrow morning for power tour, or we could have hooked up for some lie telling...LOL

Car looks good. It may just be the angle of the pic's, but it looks a little high actually. we should get some pics of yours and mine.

Rubes,

Maybe we can get together after you get back. i am taking the car to Jeff Schwartz's shop when he gets back from Power Tour. His crew is going to help with the shaker.

Andrew

[Rubes]

That would be cool...I wanted to go see the shop there anyway. check your PM's

[dropit69]

hey if that is this weekend count me in ..love to visit his shop..or next weekend too..and that storm was unbelievable..sideways rain is not uncommon here in IL..lol

[andrewb70]

Yesterday and today were two very exciting days. Monday morning I showed by to Schwartz Extreme Performance (http://www.schwartzperformance.com/) in Crystal Lake, Illinois. Jeff Schwartz and his crew were waiting for me so they can begin to adapt my shaker scoop to the new engine. One of Jeff's fabricators, Ken, was responsible for the project.

After looking things over and mocking up my old shaker base it as decided that a whole new base would need to be made. So Ken rolled a new base and bottom.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo78.JPG

The only part of my old base that was reused was the upper lip that attached to the shaker top.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo79.JPG

Ken also fabricated another piece that was welded to the inside of the base and held the air filter element. I picked this filter element because it is as large as the base will allow. The filter is also rather thick which gives it more area for better flow. It also happened to be in stock at the local AutoZone, which means I can get a replacement just about anywhere.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo80.JPG

Another one of Jeff's fabricators, Kyle, helped out with the TIG welding of the 4" pipe that connected the base and the throttle body.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo81.JPG

Today everything was starting to take shape. The MAF was mounted inside the pipe towards the the top, just after the rubber coupler.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo82.JPG

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo83.JPG

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo84.JPG

Tomorrow morning I am heading out to Colorado. I will be stopping in Lincoln, NE to visit my friend Brian. Brian did the body and paint on my GTO. We will smooth out all the welds on the base and paint everything a semi-gloss black. Thanks again to the crew at Schwartz Extreme Performance for a job well done!

Andrew

[compos mentis]

Excellent write up and pics.
Looking forward to seeing it all 'gussied up' lol!
Have a safe trip.

[Steve68]

Nice piece Andrew, I've been to Estes Park in CO, Nice area, I have friend in Aurora, Denver, and Longmont,

[Bow Tie 67]

That turned out very nice. Did you notice any seat of the pants performance increase after its install?

[andrewb70]

That turned out very nice. Did you notice any seat of the pants performance increase after its install?

Funny your asking that. The temperature was nice and cool last night. On my way home I got into the throttle up a small hill in second gear and it broke the tires loose. I bet I pick up 2-3 mph at the track.

Andrew

[jackfrost]

how is it mounted?

[cdoggy81]

^^^ditto^^^
How is it mounted b/c I'm doing the same to my 70 TA shaker :)

[PARKERRS]

How are you getting pressure on top of the air filter? I know this type of filter is meant to be sandwiched in the filter box on OEM applications or it will not seal around the edges. How did you address that issue? It looks really good Andrew once finished it will look factory, can't wait to see it at RTTH this year.
Tommy

[Motown 454]

They did a nice job, it should look killer when your done. Keep the updates coming.
Wayne

[andrewb70]

Real time update.

Why bother having a fuel gauge if its not accurate?

Thank goodness for nice hippie folks.

Andrew

[parsonsj]

Just got off the phone with Andrew.

He tells me got the car filled up with gas, and is back on his way west. If you see a red GTO on I-80 in Nebraska, that's him.

Tommy: there is a retaining plate to hold the filter in place. Andrew said he'll post some more pics when he arrives in Colorado.

jp

[trapin]

That's pretty slick, Andrew. Can't wait to see the finished product.

[Steve1968LS2]

Love the shaker.. that's pretty slick!

[rickk]

jeff is and does first class work.
rick k:drive1:

[jpdeuce]

I'm really digging the scoop Andrew. Good job. I too am curious about how it mounts to the engine itself. Trick stuff!

[jeff s]

Andrew was in a hurry, and couldn't let us finish it up, smooth and paint it. We didn't even have time to hit it with scotchbrite to take off the welding discoloration. It has a reataining ring that holds and seals the filter. The entire unit clips to the fuel rails with the stock coil cover rubber grommets. Thanks,

[andrewb70]

Driving to Lincoln, NE yesterday made it obvious that the 450 springs were just too soft. The front end had also settled quite a bit and the was rubbing quite a bit. Speedway motors is right in town so I picked up some 550 spring and installed them this morning. We set the ride night a little on the high side with the thought that it will settle down some.

I'm heading out to Wyoming in the morning.

Andrew

[jackfrost]

i gotta say, you got more balls than me to take a just-finished project car across country. good luck. :razz:

[cdoggy81]

Thanks for the info.
Now I'm starting to wonder about 450# springs for my 70 TA w/ QA1's....

[andrewb70]

Thanks for the info.
Now I'm starting to wonder about 450# springs for my 70 TA w/ QA1's....

If you already have the 450s give them a try. Its not hard to swap the springs if you decide you need more. I'm actually going to try some 650s and go to 250s in the rear.

Andrew

[andrewb70]

My road trip is going pretty well. The car is running great and it is really a blast to be driving it all over the place. I put about 1800 miles on the car since I left Kentucky. Here is a shot of the car taken in Laramie, WY after being cleaned up a little bit.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo86.jpg

Andrew

[compos mentis]

Andrew,

Thanks for giving us keyboard jockeys a taste of that 'wide-track excitement'! :geek:

[CarlC]

Please don't tell me Andrew you went through Gillette any time last week. I was there the whole time...

[andrewb70]

Please don't tell me Andrew you went through Gillette any time last week. I was there the whole time...

I am in Laramie at the moment. I'm seriously considering going to visit my grandmother in San Francisco.

Andrew

[hotrdblder]

I am in Laramie at the moment. I'm seriously considering going to visit my grandmother in San Francisco.

Andrew
jeez, andrew, your livin the dream, while your at it you might as well come visit me in maine. lol, really cool story and its cool your driving the hell out of your car.
keep in touch
jake

[MarkM66]

I am in Laramie at the moment. I'm seriously considering going to visit my grandmother in San Francisco.

Andrew

Do it. Keep going. :firefire:


What was your trip to Laramie for? Maybe I missed it...

[andrewb70]

Do it. Keep going. :firefire:


What was your trip to Laramie for? Maybe I missed it...

I don't think its going to happen. :/

Laramie is only about 90 miles away from the town in Colorado where I went to high school. I'm staying here at a buddies house. This morning I'm heading back east.

Andrew

[andrewb70]

I finally made it home to Bowling Green on Monday night. What a trip. I drove a combined total of about 3600 miles and got just under 20 mpg combined city and highway. I am sure that on some tanks I was getting 23-24 on the highway and in the city it was probably 16-17. Keep in mind that I wasn't driving with economy in mind. I was going 80-85 mph on the highway most of the time.

Today I gave the car some much needed TLC. It got a thorough cleaning, followed by some minor swirl mark removal, and a wax. I also went through some of the pictures that I took.

Here is a shot of the shaker from inside the car. This picture was taken in Iowa on the way to my stop in Lincoln, Nebraska.

https://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo87.jpg

As I was pulling into Lincoln Nebraska, I could see some very interesting weather brewing to the west. Here are a couple of shots that were taken just as the sun was setting in the west. The clouds were truly spectacular and fortunately nothing came of it except a thunder storm.

https://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo88.jpg

https://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo89.jpg

I might have mentioned it before, but the next morning I installed the 550 lb/in springs that I got from Speedway Motors. I also cleaned approximately 1.2 million bugs off the front of the car and washed it down.

https://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo90.jpg

The following morning I headed west to Wyoming. This shot was taken in western Nebraska. I just thought it looked neat.

https://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo91.jpg

On the morning of Saturday, June 21st, my friend Rory and I headed to Estes Park, Colorado for our 20th high school reunion. Rory has been a great friend since I was 15 and he is one of very few people who I will let drive my car. I think he misses having a running hot rod.

https://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo92.jpg

The drive from Laramie, WY to Estes Park, CO is very nice. We took 287 down to Ft. Collins and then on to Love Land. From Love Land we picked up highway 34 which winds through the mountains, along the Big Thompson river, up to Estes Park. This section of the canyon is called the "narrows."

https://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo93.jpg

During the summer months the road to Estes Park is filled with tourists and most of them barely go the posted 45 mph speed limit. Having lived in this area when I got my driver's license it is easy to see how I would be attracted to the pro-touring build style. There aren't too many straight roads in Estes Park and we always used to haul ass up and down both this canyon and the canyon that follows highway 36 from Estes Park down to Boulder. Good times!

Andrew

[rickk]

sound like the old girl did good.
rick k:drive1:

[trapin]

Great stuff, Andrew. I was waiting for some high res pics to show up.

[Young Gun]

great pictures...car looks great, and those weather shots look cool!

[andrewb70]

Thanks for the kind words guys.

Some of you have asked how the shaker assembly is held to the engine. Here is how:

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo94.jpg

The tabs on the bottom of the base are shaped just like the tabs on LS7 coil covers. The grommets are available separately at your local Chevrolet dealership for under $3. At first I was a little concerned that the brackets would wear through the rubber from the vibration, but after 3600 miles everything looks good.

Andrew

[rickk]

first class.
rick k

[cdoggy81]

Great pics & a cool trip for sure!!!
How do you like the 550# springs? You had 450# from QA1 right?

[PonchoJohn]

Andrew-
How is the filter held in place? Pix?

[andrewb70]

Great pics & a cool trip for sure!!!
How do you like the 550# springs? You had 450# from QA1 right?

The 550s are great. 450s were a little soft for my taste. If you already have the 450s, give them a shot. They are easy to swap.

The filter sits in a large hole that is sized for the filter. On top there is another flange that goes around the whole perimeter of the filter which bolts to the base.

Yesterday I spent some time cleaning up the welds on the air intake tube and on the base. I gave it two coats of rattle can primer, follow by two coats of satin black. Turned out pretty good. I could have spent more time smoothing the welds but I am happy with the way it turned out.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo95.jpg

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo96.jpg

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo97.jpg

Andrew

[Young Gun]

that engine looks awesome! I love the way that air cleaner assembly looks and works! very nicely done as usual!

[Motown 454]

Shaker set up looks awesome . They did a nice job
Wayne

[gearbanger]

Very cool Andrew. That is an awesome looking induction setup.

[cdoggy81]

Yes the shaker is cool!!! I saw the mounting tabs pic you posted. Never would have thought of something like that :) Can you post a pic of how they mount to the fuel rails? IIRC something about a rubber boot if fits into??? I like having another option to do my shaker.

[trapin]

I would like to see one of those done up for a cowl induction hood.

[SaturnVUEguy]

Monday morning I showed by to Schwartz Extreme Performance (http://www.schwartzperformance.com/) in Crystal Lake, IllinoisHad I known you'd be in Crystal Lake, I would have gone over there to meet up with you. I live in Carol Stream, but my drivers license says Crystal Lake (long story). I just moved to Carol Stream barely a year ago, and my parents still live in CL. I'm not familiar with Schwarz Extreme Performance, but his name does sound familiar. Also looking at the picture on his "contact us" page, I recognize that Ultima GTR,. I used to see that car on a regular basis right by my house

[wiedemab]

I would like to see one of those done up for a cowl induction hood.

I just saw this car posted up on Lat-G. Is this what you were thinking Tony?

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=15558

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/47b8d925b3127cce98548b089a9b00000047100A-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/47b8d925b3127cce98548b089a9b00000047100A-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/47b8d925b3127cce98548b071ba400000047100A-1.jpg

[andrewb70]

I just saw this car posted up on Lat-G. Is this what you were thinking Tony?

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=15558



That looks sweet!

Andrew

[wiedemab]

Question - what is the advantage of running a stock type LS intake and piping the TB up to a carb style breather vs. using a carb style intake converted to fuel injection with a carb style throttle body?

Excuse my lack of knowledge. I can see the carb stypel setup being more expensive. Also, the stock ECM may not like the carb type throttle body.

Any insights?

[andrewb70]

Question - what is the advantage of running a stock type LS intake and piping the TB up to a carb style breather vs. using a carb style intake converted to fuel injection with a carb style throttle body?

Excuse my lack of knowledge. I can see the carb stypel setup being more expensive. Also, the stock ECM may not like the carb type throttle body.

Any insights?

The single plane intakes are aluminum, so they are heavier and heat up more. They also have shorter runners which hurts low end torque. It would also be hard to mount the MAF. The other issue is that newer LS engines that have the 58 tooth trigger wheel can't be configured to work with a cable operated throttle body. Jeff Schwartz has adapted a DBW throttle body to a single plain before, but I just didn't want to do all that.

Andrew

[wiedemab]

The single plane intakes are aluminum, so they are heavier and heat up more. They also have shorter runners which hurts low end torque. It would also be hard to mount the MAF. The other issue is that newer LS engines that have the 58 tooth trigger wheel can't be configured to work with a cable operated throttle body. Jeff Schwartz has adapted a DBW throttle body to a single plain before, but I just didn't want to do all that.

Andrew
Gotcha - I was just curious.

Your setup is sweet. If/when I decide to go LS in a project, I'll be referring back to this thread and may have to lean on you for some tech info!

You gonna have the GTO at RTH this year? I hope - I'd like to check it out in person.

Later,

Brandon

[andrewb70]

.....

You gonna have the GTO at RTH this year? I hope - I'd like to check it out in person.

Later,

Brandon

Yes Sir! I am really looking forward to RTTH. Parsons and I are roomies again and we are arriving on Thursday evening so we won't miss anything. Before the event I plan on:

Installing ATS AFX spindles
C6 ZO6 brakes from Kore3
Doing a make-over on the wheels
New tires
Corner scale the car

Andrew

[andrewb70]

One of the things that I really want to do before RTTH (Run through the Hills) in September is to give the wheels a makeover. I have 3 piece Kinesis wheels that can be taken apart. The great thing about being able to take the wheels apart is that it makes it very easy to clean them or give them a new look. Here is the wheel taken off the car:

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo99.jpg

The outer lips were once polished but have since dulled. Not very pretty at all. The centers look OK but I want a slightly different look. There are 40 bolt around the circumference of the wheel. Once the bolts are taken out, the center separates from the inner and outer rim.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo100.jpg

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo101.jpg

The wheels get very dirty on the inside from driving. Don't ask me how this happens, but there were actually dead bugs stuck to the inside rim. Here is a dirty rim:

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo102.jpg

Here is a rim after some time with Purple Power and a red scotch brite pad:

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo103.jpg

I am going to clean up all of the inside rims and paint them silver. The pain will make clean up much easier. The outer rims will get re-polished for a nice, bright finish. The centers are going to get hard anodized and Teflon coated for extra durability.

I also measured the front wheels for the C6 ZO6 brakes that I have coming from Kore3. It's close, but it will clear.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo98.jpg

Andrew

[andrewb70]

New tires should be here first part of next week. I decided to go with the Falken Azenis RT-615 tires. The tires will be slightly shorter both in the back and in the front. In the back I will be running 295/40-18 and in the front I will have 255/40-18s. So the rear tires are a hair over 27 inches tall and the fronts are right at 26 inches tall.

The Nittos were good tires and had plenty of tread but it was time for a change. They were pretty old. The date code on the tires was from 2002.

Andrew

[tom_a]

New tires should be here first part of next week. I decided to go with the Falken Azenis RT-615 tires. The tires will be slightly shorter both in the back and in the front. In the back I will be running 295/40-18 and in the front I will have 255/40-18s. So the rear tires are a hair over 27 inches tall and the fronts are right at 26 inches tall.

The Nittos were good tires and had plenty of tread but it was time for a change. They were pretty old. The date code on the tires was from 2002.

Andrew

Looking forward to seeing these tires on your car. I have thought the 45 series was a tad to tall on mine also. I was thinking the Nitto 305/40/18 but it is a drag radial I believe. Your new tires appear a better suited choice for build style. It also is nice looking http://www.falkentire.com/#/Tires/Motorsports/

[andrewb70]

Looking forward to seeing these tires on your car. I have thought the 45 series was a tad to tall on mine also. I was thinking the Nitto 305/40/18 but it is a drag radial I believe. Your new tires appear a better suited choice for build style. It also is nice looking http://www.falkentire.com/#/Tires/Motorsports/

I was pretty excited about using those tires when I saw that they made a 295/40. I don't believe anyone else makes that size besides Falken. The Nitto 305/40 is a drag radial.

Andrew

[OLDFLM]

New tires should be here first part of next week. I decided to go with the Falken Azenis RT-615 tires. The tires will be slightly shorter both in the back and in the front. In the back I will be running 295/40-18 and in the front I will have 255/40-18s. So the rear tires are a hair over 27 inches tall and the fronts are right at 26 inches tall.

The Nittos were good tires and had plenty of tread but it was time for a change. They were pretty old. The date code on the tires was from 2002.

Andrew

Those tires will be sweet on your car Andrew! It'll be interesting to see a comparison between the 255/40 and my 255/45s up front!

I think DriverzInc's titanium smoke treatment would look incredible on your wheel centers and they could clear powercoat them for durability and easy cleanup! JMHO

[4MuscleMachines]

One of the things that I really want to do before RTTH (Run through the Hills) in September is to give the wheels a makeover. I have 3 piece Kinesis wheels that can be taken apart. The great thing about being able to take the wheels apart is that it makes it very easy to clean them or give them a new look. Here is the wheel taken off the car:

The outer lips were once polished but have since dulled. Not very pretty at all. The centers look OK but I want a slightly different look. There are 40 bolt around the circumference of the wheel. Once the bolts are taken out, the center separates from the inner and outer rim.

The wheels get very dirty on the inside from driving. Don't ask me how this happens, but there were actually dead bugs stuck to the inside rim. Here is a dirty rim:

Here is a rim after some time with Purple Power and a red scotch brite pad:

I am going to clean up all of the inside rims and paint them silver. The pain will make clean up much easier. The outer rims will get re-polished for a nice, bright finish. The centers are going to get hard anodized and Teflon coated for extra durability.

I also measured the front wheels for the C6 ZO6 brakes that I have coming from Kore3. It's close, but it will clear.

Andrew

Andrew, I also have the same wheels on my 69 and they also need a freshening up. Where are you having your centers anodized and teflon coated? Also, are you replacing any hardware or are you satisfied with what is on the wheels? Thanks in advance.

Frank

[andrewb70]

Andrew, I also have the same wheels on my 69 and they also need a freshening up. Where are you having your centers anodized and teflon coated? Also, are you replacing any hardware or are you satisfied with what is on the wheels? Thanks in advance.

Frank

Frank,

I was going to replace the hardware on the wheels, but after taking them apart it is obvious that these aren't just regular bolts. They have a 1/2" splined section just below the head, like a wheel stud. The bolts are metric with a 6mm shank. I am ballin on a budget so finding 160 new fancy bolts is sort of out of the question right now. I am soaking the bolts and nuts in some WD 40 and that seems to make them look pretty nice.

The place that is going to do the anodizing is in Orlando, Florida. This is the same place that the anodizing on various parts on John Parsons Nova. Maybe he will chime in with the name, since I don't know it. :/

Andrew

[tom_a]

Andrew, Are you happy with the rear spring adjusters? I still have to get rear springs and I believe I will also get the same adjusters as it seems like the way to go.

[andrewb70]

Andrew, Are you happy with the rear spring adjusters? I still have to get rear springs and I believe I will also get the same adjusters as it seems like the way to go.

The spring adjusters work great Tom. My only complaint is that they are starting to rust. Black oxide is not a very durable finish. I really don't know what they can do. I am just going to lube them up liberally. Make sure to get shorter springs to compensate for the height of the adjusters. What springs are you going to use? Single pigtail?

Andrew

[tom_a]

Andrew, I don't know what kinda springs. I have the Vari shock coil overs in front with 650lb rate. I was gonna look back through your thread as you may have listed the source, height and rate for the rears.

[andrewb70]

Andrew, I don't know what kinda springs. I have the Vari shock coil overs in front with 650lb rate. I was gonna look back through your thread as you may have listed the source, height and rate for the rears.

I am using 9" springs, 175lb/inch. If you have 650's in the front, I would not hesitate to go with 200-250s in the rear. I got my springs from Coleman. They are the only company that I have found that sell the 9" single pigtail spring. You will also need to do some kind of axle retention so the springs don't wall out when the rear suspension extends.

Andrew

[tom_a]

Thanks. I will check into Coleman

[andrewb70]

The rear Falkens showed up today.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo108.jpg

I am also getting a good handle on the vibration that I have been having above 75 mph. I have narrowed it all down to insufficient engagement between the output shaft and the slip yoke. The lack of engagement is allowing enough up and down movement of the yoke to cause a vibration. I got a new Strange Engineering slip yoke and tomorrow I am having a new driveshaft made that will slide the slip yoke further inside the transmission. There are some pictures and more discussion on the subject here:

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=232582

Andrew

[parsonsj]

The place that is going to do the anodizing is in Orlando, Florida. This is the same place that did the anodizing on various parts on John Parsons' Nova. Maybe he will chime in with the name, since I don't know it. :/Yeah, it's a hard name to remember: Orlando Plating.

:)

jp

[andrewb70]

Some people have asked me to elaborate more on the driveshaft issue. Here is what the driveshaft looked like when installed into the transmission:

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo104.jpg

By the looks of it most people would say that it looks OK. I thought so too. Here is what it looked like "inside."

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo106.jpg

The seal sits at the edge of the shiny part of the yoke. The bushing is about 13/16" from the seal. My yoke was cut down some in order for it not to hit the speedometer gear. The gear is located exactly 3.5" from the end of the output shaft. My yoke as cut too much I think:

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo107.jpg

This is what it looked like with the driveshaft installed and the tailshaft housing removed. You can see there is plenty of room before the yoke hits the speedometer gear. I also wanted to see just how much the slip yoke actually moves with suspension travel. That is what the zip tie is for. I placed it firmly against the edge of the yoke and moved the car through about 7-8" of suspension travel. 3-4" up and 3-4" down. That is as far as the yoke moved. A whopping 1/8"!!!

So my new driveshaft will position my slip yoke much closer to the seal and it will give me barely enough room to install the driveshaft. I also installed 2 tailshaft bushings.

Andrew

[andrewb70]

This morning I took my slip yoke to Precision Driveline in Glasgow, KY. This is a one man operation and Terry was kind enough to let me snap some pictures while he made a new driveshaft.

The first thing that Terry did was slide my old driveshaft into a big lathe and cut off the old weld yokes. This was not nearly as dramatic as I thought it might be.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo109.jpg

I made some very careful measurements last night and the slip yoke needed to be trimmed just a little bit. Interestingly enough, the Strange yoke didn't have splines cut in it for the first 3/4" or so. According to my measurements that whole section without the splines needed to be trimmed off. Terry had a CNC Bridgeport that he used to mill the yoke.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo110.jpg

After the yoke was trimmed a new Neapco solid u-joint was mated to the weld yoke.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo111.jpg

Terry then measured and cut the tube, assembling it on his fixture, making sure that the ends of the shaft are indexed correctly.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo112.jpg

Once he was happy with the alignment and the straightness of the tube is was time to MIG weld the yokes to the tube.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo113.jpg

After the yokes were welded Terry allowed the shaft to cool down before balancing it. Here is the new finished shaft.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo114.jpg

The careful measuring really paid off. I was able to slide the slip yoke inside the transmission and the rear u-joint BARELY slipped into the pinion yoke. This is about as long as the driveshaft can be without being TOO long.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo115.jpg

After the driveshaft was installed there was no more noticeable lateral movement at the slip yoke. I don't know if this was my sole source of the driveline vibration, but I am 100% sure it was a contributing factor. I will know for sure once the car is back on the road in a couple of weeks.

Andrew

[cdoggy81]

Nice work & write up!
I need to have one made as well. What does he charge?

[andrewb70]

Nice work & write up!
I need to have one made as well. What does he charge?

My total bill was $160, but keep in mind that he reused my weld yokes, I brought my own slip yoke, and the rear u-joint was reused as well. for me the value was in being there personally, seeing the work, and making sure the length was what I specified. I've run into other driveshaft builders that have actually argued with me about the length. :screwy:

Find a good shop locally. Ask around, see who has a good reputation, and go visit the shop. If it looks like a s**t hole, with a bunch of grease monkeys running around, go elsewhere. Terry obviously takes pride in his work. I felt very comfortable with his methods and procedures.

Andrew

[andrewb70]

Here are the Falkens compared to the Nitto 555s. The Nitto 295/45 is about an inch bigger in diameter than the 295/40 Falken. This will translate to about a 1/2" drop in ride height, which is no big deal.


https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo116.jpg

The more interesting part is that the Falkens have just over an inch more actual tread width! The advertised section width on the Falkens are stated to be about .4" wider than the Nittos. I can't wait to see how these tires work.


https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo117.jpg

Andrew

[Tony_SS]

Yeah, I think the Nitto's always run a bit on the narrow side.

[andrewb70]

Today I got my ATS spindles:


https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo118.jpg

ATS did an awesome job of packaging the spindles for safe shipping. I ordered mine with some new billet steel hubs from Vansteel. These use a tapered bearing design that is more durable and I also got the optional GM Racing wheel studs. These hubs are assemblies are being used on SCCA World Challenge cars with great success.

Before taking my spindles off I wanted to test for myself the bump steer that everyone has talked about with the b-body swap. I certainly felt it on my road trip. So I got my dial indicator out and attached the base to the frame and positioned the tip against the rotor. I made sure the rotor had a couple lug nuts on it to keep it steady.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo120.jpg

This was a very limited test because I did not take the coilover off and run the suspension through its full range of travel. However, I was able to measure the bump steer from approximately ride height through 1.5" of travel in rebound. Here are the numbers.

Ride height-------dial indicator set to zero
1/2" rebound-----.1" toe in
1" rebound-------.2" toe in
1.5" rebound-----.320" toe in

I am no suspension expert, but I am pretty sure the above numbers suck ass. Once my brakes are here, I will do the same test with the ATS spindles installed.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo119.jpg

On a side note, since the rear end was on jack stands I wanted to see if my vibration was gone. I started the engine, ran it up in 5th gear (1:1) and at about 3200 RPM I am still getting that buzzing vibration. I messed around with the pinion angle and nothing made any difference. I finally put a dial indicator on the driveshaft at the rear to measure the run-out. I watched Terry do this on his fixture and I knew the shaft was within .002". To my surprise I saw .038" on the dial indicator. I suspect that my pinion yoke is off. This is driving me insane. Tomorrow I may try the old "hang big hose clamps on the driveshaft test."

I am open to suggestions. :/

Andrew

[69Nova]

Andrew you need to be a tech guy at a magazine or write a book or something. You are doing a great job of covering everything your doing.

[70 Chevelle]

What brakes did you end up going with? Looks great by the way.

[andrewb70]

Thanks Andrew. I figure that someone might get some useful information out of my tinkering...LOL

Tony,

I went the OEM route. Tobin at Kore3 is setting me up with a C6 Z06 system. I upgraded the rotors to the DBA 4000 series, one piece slotted rotor. That was only like a $60 option so it made sense. People forget that rotors are wear items so getting the bling, bling DBA 5000 2 piece rotor is kind of a waste. Which is not to say I haven't purchased parts just for looks...LOL

Andrew

[trapin]

The tech in this thread is great, Andrew...but your issue with vibration in your drivetrain is causing me some anxiety due to the fact that I just set mine up over the winter dialing in the trans angle and having a new driveshaft built. If you're having these kinds of issues...I can just imagine what's in store for me.

[andrewb70]

The tech in this thread is great, Andrew...but your issue with vibration in your drivetrain is causing me some anxiety due to the fact that I just set mine up over the winter dialing in the trans angle and having a new driveshaft built. If you're having these kinds of issues...I can just imagine what's in store for me.

Tony,

I wouldn't sweat it. Camaros don't seem to have too many issues with driveline vibrations.

Andrew

[andrewb70]

I got the wheel centers back today and they look pretty amazing.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo121.jpg

I should have the polished rims tomorrow and then I can start on assembling the wheels.

During a recent trip to Chicago I stopped by The Parts Place and picked up a new pinion yoke. After installing it, I measured the run out and it was .004", quite a bit less than the run out on the other yoke which was about .040". I ran it up to speed on the jackstands and it was very smooth in 5th gear (1:1) all the way up to 4500 RPM. It still vibrated a little in 6th, but I think most of that is due to the fact that there is no load on the driveline. I am going to leave it for now and see how it feels going down the road.

The brakes should be here next week, then I can be back on the road.

Andrew

[subtlez28]

Andrew

I liked you rims b4, but now...:twothumbs
I'm a big fan of dark colored rims. Those look great!

[andrewb70]

Andrew

I liked you rims b4, but now...:twothumbs
I'm a big fan of dark colored rims. Those look great!

Thanks Shaun. I got a better look at all of them and it seems one of the front centers got a little mark on it. :/ Should be OK with a little Sharpie magic...LOL

Andrew

[SaturnVUEguy]

Wheel looks nice, look forward to seeing them assembled and on the car

[parsonsj]

The best thing about black anodizing is that blemishes can be fixed by a Sharpie. :)

I wanna see the whole wheel!

jp

[andrewb70]

....
I wanna see the whole wheel!

jp

I am calling the polisher first thing in the morning and making sure he is done with them by close of business tomorrow. He promised! I am starting to get the feeling polishers are like interior guys. I am sure you understand John.

Andrew

[trapin]

This is like a whole new car for you Andrew. Can't wait to see what the wheels look like.

[jackfrost]

need to rename the thread: Version 3.0. ;)

[andrewb70]

need to rename the thread: Version 3.0. ;)

Nah....This is all part of what I wanted to do when I installed the LSx engine.

Andrew

[70 Chevelle]

The wheel centers came out the perfect color .

[andrewb70]

At 4pm this afternoon I showed up at the polisher's place and the wheels were done, as promised. I have to admit the results were better than I imagined. This guy is simply amazing. His name is Jeff Smith and it turns out he did all of the brushed aluminum work on Bob Johnson's Cuda. I am pretty sure that they weren't this nice when I first got the wheels. I got them home, masked off the front, and spray painted the inner hoop silver. I figured that having a painted inner rim will be easier to clean than a plain aluminum one. After painting I applied a generous coating of wax to the polished surface to seal them a little bit. After that it was time to assemble the wheels. I lined up the center according to the marks that I made before taking the wheels apart. This way the wheels go together exactly the same way with the center going back to its rim. I used a little anti-seize on the splined section of the bolts and drove them through the center and the rim. Then I flipped the wheel over and started torquing the nuts in a star pattern. It took about 2 hours to do one wheel but the results were well worth it. It's like a brand new wheel!

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo122.jpg

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo123.jpg

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo124.jpg

The little notch marks on the back are to keep track of the torque sequence. With 40 nuts to tighten, it is very easy to loose your place.

Andrew

[tom_a]

Wow. Those look great. I can't wait to see those with the 40 series tires on the car.

[Young Gun]

oh damn, I wanna see those mounted up!

[Motown 454]

Andrew awesome job on the centers . He did a nice job on the polishing too ,they look like chrome. They are going to look sweet on your car
Wayne

[4MuscleMachines]

Awesome color and detail. What are you going to do about the center caps? Did the anodizer have a color similar to the original center color?

[CarlC]

My total bill was $160, but keep in mind that he reused my weld yokes, I brought my own slip yoke, and the rear u-joint was reused as well.

That's a good deal Andrew. For exactly the same deal for me at IED, quoted and dropped off today, runs $233.

Nice work on the rims.

[CarlC]

I would like to see one of those done up for a cowl induction hood.

I too am working on something but a bit different. Another month or so.....

[andrewb70]

Awesome color and detail. What are you going to do about the center caps? Did the anodizer have a color similar to the original center color?

The centers are going to pose a challenge. They are plastic and can't be anadized like the centers. I will think of something.

Andrew

[Bow Tie 67]

We have to remove the centers of our wheels when we run a track day. Personally I think the car looks mean without them. Take a measurement of the inner diameter and send me a pm, my budniks have a neat aluminum center cap that is held in with an o-ring that may be a close match.

Matt


The centers are going to pose a challenge. They are plastic and can't be anadized like the centers. I will think of something.

Andrew

[andrewb70]

Today I assembled the rest of the wheels and had the tires mounted. I am very impressed with the Falken tires. Neither front wheels needed any weight. One rear tire needed .75 oz while the other balanced with only .50 oz. That is very impressive considering the size of the tires.

Andrew

[andrewb70]

Teaser shot of the wheels on the car.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo125.jpg

Andrew

[69Nova]

Holy crap! Thats gonna look killer Andrew. Cant wait to see it on the ground.

[6'9"Witha69]

Looks sweet!

[tom_a]

Awesome can't wait to see more of it. I assume your still waiting on brakes?

[Young Gun]

Pictures of it on the ground!

[gearheads78]

Oh hell yes :smoke:

[andrewb70]

Awesome can't wait to see more of it. I assume your still waiting on brakes?

Yes. It seems that GM has been rather careless when shipping calipers. Many have been getting damaged in shipping. Hopefully I will have some brakes next week. Although its sort of a mute issue at the moment. I am going out of town and won't be able to work on the car again until the 18th.

Andrew

[BossaNova]

Wow. Those wheels are v. cool.

[andrewb70]

This morning I got my brake components from Kore3 (http://www.kore3.com). Tobin at Kore3 has outstanding customer service and I am very pleased with the parts. I got C6 Z06 calipers, 14" DBA 4000 rotors, and Hawk HP Plus pads.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo126.jpg

More pictures to come.

Andrew

[NvrDun71]

Looks like the updated wheel finish came out great. Not a bad lookin pile-o-break parts either.......When is she going to be road-worthy again?

[andrewb70]

.........When is she going to be road-worthy again?
I drove it again this evening. In the morning I am going to get an alignment. The C6 Z06 brakes are very nice. I really like how the ATS spindles work with the OEM style brakes. Everything bolted together beautifully.

https://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo127.jpg

https://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo128.jpg

https://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo129.jpg

The car is sitting a little higher in the front now. This is due to the fact that my old spindles had a 2 inch drop compared to stock. I believe the ATS spindles are about an inch lower than stock. I was going to lower it, but I think I am going to keep it this way. It's nice not having to worry about any sort of rubbing with the tires. I also think that the springs will settle some over the winter.

Andrew

[70 Chevelle]

Looks great ! can you get a closeup of your wheel ,caliper clearence? Looks like there is still plenty of room. Thats an 18 right?

[andrewb70]

Looks great ! can you get a closeup of your wheel ,caliper clearence? Looks like there is still plenty of room. Thats an 18 right?

My wheels are 18s but they also have WAY more caliper clearance than the average wheel. It's not so much the diameter. The face of the caliper is 1.69" past the surface where the wheel mounts. So the wheel has to be designed in such a way that it can accomodate that. I have about 1/4" between the caliper and the bolts that hold the wheel together.

Andrew

[wiedemab]

Looks Sweet! RTH here we come!

[SaturnVUEguy]

I say leave the front as it is, it looks really nice like that!

[gearbanger]

My GTO was at 4" under the crossmember and it looked really good, but I had some rubbing issues and I had to be really conscious of the headers because they were even lower.

I raised it to 5" under the x-member and it is so much better. No rubbing issues and the headers are much safer. Worth the trade I think. I still need to go get a realignment.

[andrewb70]

I measured the distance from the ground to the headers and right now it is 5". While the car would look a little better lowered, I think it is important to keep the car as practical as possible, without the danger of hurting parts. So for now, it will stay where it is.

Today I did a little project that I have been neglecting to do. Many of you have asked me what I am doing to retain the axle in rebound. To recap, I am using short 9.5" springs in the rear. The problem is that when the axle drops, the springs get unloaded. This is not a good situation. And while the odds of getting the car air borne are fairly slim, if it were to happen it might be catastrophic. The other issue is that the single pigtail springs do not seat really well in the upper spring pocket.

I picked these up on eBay for $20 shipped:

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo130.jpg

They are rubber spring isolators from a 4th gen F-body. They fit the single pigtail springs perfectly:

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo131.jpg

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo132.jpg

The rubber spring isolators fit perfectly into the upper spring pocket on the a-bodies.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo133.jpg

Here is what I did to keep the axle from dropping too far. I took a 2" nylon axle strap. It used these to loop over the rear axle when I was towing the car. At the top I attached one end to the T-bar of the upper shock mount:

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo134.jpg

At the bottom I looped the loop around the shock mount stud:

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo135.jpg

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo136.jpg

When the axle drops and hangs by the straps, the springs are still compressed about 1". This will keep them safely in place in case I want to do some Dukes of Hazzard maneuvers. :screwy:

Andrew

[Code Red]

looking sharp man

[cdoggy81]

Very sharp indeed!!!

[bwhinnen]

Nice to see some DBA rotors there Andrew, lets see how they hold up, I have DBA4000's on my WRX, obviously not a 14" rotor though :)

[andrewb70]

Yesterday I took the car to get the corner weight set and to make sure that my front sway bar was installed in such a way that it was not pre-loading the suspension. I took my car to Nashville, to Earl Owens Chassis. If anyone in that area needs any kind of fabrication or setup help, Earl knows his stuff.

Here are the new corner weights:

--LF------------------RF
1094-----------------1044



--LR-----------------RR
968-----------------913

This is with driver of similar weight to me.

Total: 4019 lbs
Distribution: 53.2 Front / 46.8% rear

Cross weight 50%

This was done with the front sway bar disconnected. Minor adjustments were needed on the drivers side rear spring jack to get the cross weight to 50%. Once the weights were adjusted I installed the sway bar in such a way that it did not alter any of the corner weights. I know that the sway bar was preloading the suspension fairly heavily before. This was evident by the fact that when I made right turns, the car would handle very neutral. There was just a hint of understeer that was easily controlled with the throttle. When making left turns the car would push much harder and the understeer was less controllable with the throttle.
Now the car handles the same way whether I am making left or right turns.

After installing the AFX spindles, I had to get the car aligned again. I decided to add just a hair more negative camber.

-.7* camber
5.5* caster ( little more on the right)
0 toe

The handling is very neutral. There is just a hint of understeer that is easily modulated with the throttle. The biggest difference is going over bumps, especially when just one wheel hits a bump. Before, the car would dart and wander. I have no doubt that this was cause by the bump steer due to the b-body spindle swap. With the AFX spindles all of that is gone. The car tracks straight as an arrow when going over bumps. There is a slight tendency to track along the grooves in the road, but I attribute that to the shorter sidewall on the new tires.

Andrew

[bwhinnen]

I've always found my cars to track with grooves when I have a neutral toe Andrew. But I prefer the overall feel you get with that toe. I am also talking fr to rear as well as just front.

Is -0.7* enough camber for the front? I'm used to my car where I run -2.5* front and -1.5* rear, but lighter smaller car... Of course I don't know your driving preferences or just how good the car may feel at the moment either!

Sounds like you've got it where you want it though great work!

[andrewb70]

I've always found my cars to track with grooves when I have a neutral toe Andrew. But I prefer the overall feel you get with that toe. I am also talking fr to rear as well as just front.

Is -0.7* enough camber for the front? I'm used to my car where I run -2.5* front and -1.5* rear, but lighter smaller car... Of course I don't know your driving preferences or just how good the car may feel at the moment either!

Sounds like you've got it where you want it though great work!

For the way I use my car, -.7* should be plenty. I have a set of shims that I can install in about 10 minutes that will give me -2.5* camber and more caster, for track use.

Andrew

[bwhinnen]

For the way I use my car, -.7* should be plenty. I have a set of shims that I can install in about 10 minutes that will give me -2.5* camber and more caster, for track use.

Andrew

Nice one, that's the way it should be! Easy 10 minutes work!

Can't wait to see some vids of you on the track!

[jackfrost]

sweet. time for some ink. :drool:

[andrewb70]

Tonight I decided to take the car to the drag strip to see how my new tires worked. I got to the track, did my burn out. The car pulled hard out of the hole. I was able to launch it from about 3000 RPM, slipping the clutch a little, no tire spin. On the 1-2 shift, it felt like I missed second. No big deal. I aborted the run. Stepped on the clutch and got nothing. No pressure at all. Straight to the floor. I matched the RPM and got the car into 3rd gear and drove back to the pits. Looked under the car and saw a nice little stream of fluid coming from the bellhousing. So the hydraulic TOB puked.

I now have less than 9 days until RTTH IV. I need to order a rebuild kit. I may even order a new TOB. I am not looking forward to spending the weekend on my back, but it's better that this happened now and now a week from now.

Andrew

[parsonsj]

That's bad news Andrew!!! You think you over-traveled the TOB? Maybe you pounded that clutch pedal more than usual?

jp

[andrewb70]

That's bad news Andrew!!! You think you over-traveled the TOB? Maybe you pounded that clutch pedal more than usual?

jp

I thought about that. The only thing that bothers me about that theory is that I have a ton of miles on the car already. If the TOB was being overtraveled I would think it would have puked by now.

Andrew

[ScotI]

I thought about that. The only thing that bothers me about that theory is that I have a ton of miles on the car already. If the TOB was being overtraveled I would think it would have puked by now.

Andrew
Ton of miles w/how many drag strip type launches? Awesome revisions BTW. Time to change the pic in your signature . . ....

I'll definitely look you up if your @ RTTH.

[parsonsj]

I was thinking that the adrenaline rush from drag-racing gave you a little more oomph on your clutch depression, either in force or travel, that might have pushed the TOB past its design point.

jp

[andrewb70]

I was thinking that the adrenaline rush from drag-racing gave you a little more oomph on your clutch depression, either in force or travel, that might have pushed the TOB past its design point.

jp

That is certainly possible. I will know more when I pull it apart. I have 2 rebuild kits on the way from Quarter Master and I also have the Howe bearing on the way. Apparently the new design has a built in stop to prevent overtraveling and the has a longer stroke than the Quarter Master bearing.

Andrew

[OLDFLM]

"... and has a longer stroke than the Quarter Master..."

That's what she said! LMAO

[Finch]

Andrew,

What clutch/TO bearing combo you running? I had a Centerforce II with a Howe setup that would blow only when I was really putting it to it. The weights on the clutch would flex the fingers out and the zero clearance TO bearing would get so much force on it the o-rings would blow.

I have that QM TO assembly from the LS6 I got from you laying around if any of those parts will work. Just let me know.

brian,

[andrewb70]

Andrew,

What clutch/TO bearing combo you running? I had a Centerforce II with a Howe setup that would blow only when I was really putting it to it. The weights on the clutch would flex the fingers out and the zero clearance TO bearing would get so much force on it the o-rings would blow.

I have that QM TO assembly from the LS6 I got from you laying around if any of those parts will work. Just let me know.

brian,

Hey Brian,

I am using a stock LS7 clutch and the Quarter Master street TOB. Little different than your Tri-Lite, but I really appreciate the offer. It is definitely possible that it blew because of "spirited" driving. It happened on the 1-2 shift. I pushed hard on the pedal and got nothing.

Howe has redesigned their bearing so I am hopeful that it is more durable. John Parsons is using a Howe bearing and as far as I know he is not having issues. Then again he does not drag race.

Maybe I should go with an external slave and fork....:/

Andrew

[jackfrost]

Apparently the new design has a built in stop to prevent overtraveling

i was just wondering why there wasn't a travel limiter in these things...

let us know how it works.

[andrewb70]

i was just wondering why there wasn't a travel limiter in these things...

let us know how it works.

The travel is limited by the installation of a pedal stop.

Andrew

[andrewb70]

No mystery here:

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo137.jpg

Based on the cut in the o-ring the problem was over traveling. I guess the excitement of drag racing made me press on the clutch pedal just a little bit more than when I drive around town. I will do some more investigating and see if I can limit the movement of the pedal and still get enough travel at the bearing to release the clutch.

Stay tuned for more.

Andrew

[andrewb70]

All fixed. It's raining so no test drive but I am sure its fine. I shortened the rod that connects the pedal to the MC. This reduced the stroke of the MC thus reducing the stroke of the TOB. I was still able to turn the output shaft easily by hand when the clutch was pressed. So I was definitely overtraveling the TOB before. Back on track for RTTH IV!

Andrew

[OLDFLM]

Glad to hear it Andrew!

[Ummgawa]

What a Wicked GTO. I have spent the last 2 hours pouring over this thread. Thanks for all the details, pix, fixed foul ups and do betters.

Real jaw dropper of a conversion. The first build was awesome. This one really made the GTO something unique. Thumbs way up.

[jeffandre]

Andrew,
I remember loving your car when I first came to the site in 2002! Real world car, driven hard. Now it is over the top. The weight you lost in the front, as well as the updated suspension parts and tires will definitely show improvements around the cones and on road courses.

I recall an ancient post where Jeff Schwartz drove your car at an event and set a great time. Wonder what he would be able to do now??? Not that you cannot drive the car well, but you know what I mean, Jeff is an experienced race driver.

Again, fantastic job on updating a terrific car!!!


:git:

[Roadbuster]

Andrew,
Your car is cool gotta love the Poncho.

Thanks for posting all this information. It has been an invaluable resource as I work on my own project, although it is moving at a much slower pace.

Jon

[Conekiller13]

Well Andrew, I got just got done spending the better part of the day reading this thread.........I'm a little late to the party here. Love the new motor, the new brakes, the new wheel color. Not real hip on the upper control arms but hey, that's why We have options......

Anyway, I remember the conversations We had way back in 2001-2 as We were both building up the A-body's when not too many others were. Mine is finally coming back together after being apart for the better part of six years after spinning a rod bearing at track day (damn stock oil pan). So I'm hoping to have some update photo's posted her and at Lateral-G soon.

I say bring the ride height down and go up to 650 on the front spring rate. That's what I was running and it allowed low running with no problems and was actually a nice ride. I was running 450lbs in the rear but have dropped down to 275lbs as I have converted to AFCO coil overs..........

Glad to see the Goat has your interest again.

[cdoggy81]

Hey Andrew, any updates, ET slips, speeding tickets, etc....???? :)

[andrewb70]

Hey Andrew, any updates, ET slips, speeding tickets, etc....???? :)

No updates at all. I may go to the drag strip on Saturday. The weather should be perfect for some nice runs.

Daniel,

Thanks for all the nice words. I really wish that I didn't have the coilovers in the front. It would give me better options for springs. I think going to stiffer springs might be in my future. The rear can definitely use more spring and I think I can safely go to 650 in the front. This might be a good spring time project. No pun intended...LOL

Andrew

[FirstGenZq8]

One of the things that I really want to do before RTTH (Run through the Hills) in September is to give the wheels a makeover. I have 3 piece Kinesis wheels that can be taken apart. The great thing about being able to take the wheels apart is that it makes it very easy to clean them or give them a new look. Here is the wheel taken off the car:

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo99.jpg

The outer lips were once polished but have since dulled. Not very pretty at all. The centers look OK but I want a slightly different look. There are 40 bolt around the circumference of the wheel. Once the bolts are taken out, the center separates from the inner and outer rim.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo100.jpg

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo101.jpg

The wheels get very dirty on the inside from driving. Don't ask me how this happens, but there were actually dead bugs stuck to the inside rim. Here is a dirty rim:

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo102.jpg

Here is a rim after some time with Purple Power and a red scotch brite pad:

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo103.jpg

I am going to clean up all of the inside rims and paint them silver. The pain will make clean up much easier. The outer rims will get re-polished for a nice, bright finish. The centers are going to get hard anodized and Teflon coated for extra durability.

I also measured the front wheels for the C6 ZO6 brakes that I have coming from Kore3. It's close, but it will clear.

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo98.jpg

Andrew

andrew, i love all of your detailed posts. any chance that you've weighed your wheels when you've had them off of the car?

[andrewb70]

andrew, i love all of your detailed posts. any chance that you've weighed your wheels when you've had them off of the car?

I weighed the wheels when I first got them. The rear 18x10.5" are about 22 pounds.

Andrew

[Conekiller13]

Andrew, the other option is to go to a conventional coil over in the front. That's what I'm doing. I'll be integrating the upper mounts into a roll cage (at least that's the plan) but I was looking at Tyler's upper mounts for the Camaros and while a little tall, I think they could be made to work. With a conventional coil over You pick up a couple different rates for the price of one set of high rate regular coils. One of the reasons I've stayed away from the bolt on coil overs is lack of spring choice. The conventional could give You more travel allowing for a nicer ride too. I'm surprised You have so little caster available. On My car with Global West uppers I was at about +6.5 caster on each side at about -3.1 static camber. With those adjustable uppers do You know what the geometry works out to, specificaly camber curve vs. a fixed length control arm with a specific designed curve?

Oh.........yea. The new brakes are freakin' awesome. The pricing seems unbelievable compared to other systems of that size.

[andrewb70]

Andrew, the other option is to go to a conventional coil over in the front. That's what I'm doing. I'll be integrating the upper mounts into a roll cage (at least that's the plan) but I was looking at Tyler's upper mounts for the Camaros and while a little tall, I think they could be made to work. With a conventional coil over You pick up a couple different rates for the price of one set of high rate regular coils. One of the reasons I've stayed away from the bolt on coil overs is lack of spring choice. The conventional could give You more travel allowing for a nicer ride too. I'm surprised You have so little caster available. On My car with Global West uppers I was at about +6.5 caster on each side at about -3.1 static camber. With those adjustable uppers do You know what the geometry works out to, specificaly camber curve vs. a fixed length control arm with a specific designed curve?

Oh.........yea. The new brakes are freakin' awesome. The pricing seems unbelievable compared to other systems of that size.

Daniel,

When I had the car aligned we could have dialed in more caster. I just didn't see any need for it. We could have also easily added more camber. I actually have a set of shims that I install when autocrossing that increases the camber to about -2.5 degrees and also bumps the caster another .5 degrees, or so.

I haven't done any camber curve analysis with these control arms, but I bet Tyler at ATS, or Marcus at SC&C have. Maybe one of them will chime in and give us some answers.

Andrew

[Conekiller13]

Daniel,


I haven't done any camber curve analysis with these control arms, but I bet Tyler at ATS, or Marcus at SC&C have. Maybe one of them will chime in and give us some answers.

Andrew

That would be cool. Did the ATS spindles not work with GW arms? I got the impression from earlier posts You were unable to get enough caster with those hence the change to the new arms.

[andrewb70]

That would be cool. Did the ATS spindles not work with GW arms? I got the impression from earlier posts You were unable to get enough caster with those hence the change to the new arms.

The ATS spindles didn't work with the Global West arms that I had. GW does make arms that will work with the ATS spindles, but they are different than the arms that I had for the b-body spindle swap. It has something to do with the king pin inclination angle.

The arms that I got were inexpensive, offered easy alignment adjustment, 2 alignment setting, and worked with the ATS spindles. It was a no brainer for me.

Andrew

[Conekiller13]

Makes sense. I suppose that means My arms wouldn't work either since they are as old as Yours. I'm just still not hip on the whole adjustable lenght of the arm bit. Oh well I'm a ways off finacially of upgradding that area anyway .............wheres that damn lottery ticket?

[andrewb70]

Makes sense. I suppose that means My arms wouldn't work either since they are as old as Yours. I'm just still not hip on the whole adjustable lenght of the arm bit. Oh well I'm a ways off finacially of upgradding that area anyway .............wheres that damn lottery ticket?
I suspect that your GW arms would not work either. What is it that bothers you about the adjustable control arms?

I took the car to the track this Saturday. The weather was awesome. Clear skies, dry, and high 60s. I only made 3 passes because my time was limited and there were a ton of people at the track. All passes were made without fooling around with tire pressure or shock settings. Drove it right off the street, into the staging lanes. My first pass netted the best MPH to date; 112.31 MPH. The second pass netted a my best ET to date:

60' 2.064
1/4 12.602
MPH 110.97

This is my last trip to the track for this year and I am very pleased.

Andrew

[Ron S]

With that MPH that thing has probably got a 12teen or 12.0 in it.Get the 60foot down,and that thing could possibly break into the 11's.My Cuda only went 111MPH and went 12.30,and they probably weigh about the same.I've seen acouple of lighter cars get into the 11's at 110 MPH.I do love that car though,you should be proud.Ron

[andrewb70]

With that MPH that thing has probably got a 12teen or 12.0 in it.Get the 60foot down,and that thing could possibly break into the 11's.My Cuda only went 111MPH and went 12.30,and they probably weigh about the same.I've seen acouple of lighter cars get into the 11's at 110 MPH.I do love that car though,you should be proud.Ron

Thanks for the kind words Ron. I am very proud and pleased with the car. It performs very well for having a stock cam and being such a tank. I think my next project will be a T56. PPG makes a close ratio, helical cut, dog ring gear set. I am eager to check it out at the PRI show.

Andrew

[hotrdblder]

ANDREW, killer results congrats
please tell me more about this t-56 gear set

[andrewb70]

ANDREW, killer results congrats
please tell me more about this t-56 gear set

Thanks Jake!

http://www.ppgearbox.com.au/page.asp?parentid=3&parent2id=21&productid=33

Andrew

[tom_a]

Congrats Andrew. As said before I dig the car. Now that you have some miles on the the Falken tires what do think about them?

[andrewb70]

Congrats Andrew. As said before I dig the car. Now that you have some miles on the the Falken tires what do think about them?

Tom,

I have no empirical data on the Falken. I can tell you that they are not noisy on the highway and they are WAY grippier (whatever that means) than my 6 year old Nittos. LOL

Andrew

[cdoggy81]

WOW, didn't know you had the stock cam in there. You can go low 12 easy if you wanted to go with a small A.M. cam.

See you at PRI :)

[andrewb70]

WOW, didn't know you had the stock cam in there. You can go low 12 easy if you wanted to go with a small A.M. cam.

See you at PRI :)

It is a stock LS7 cam. I have plenty of power to go 11.9x. It is a matter of more traction not more power. If I add more power by getting a bigger cam, my ET is likely to stay the same or go down, since it will be harder to launch the car.

Andrew

[cdoggy81]

Didn't know you went with the LS7 cam.

[jv982]

Today I got the exhaust buttoned up. A new Dr.Gas x-pipe was installed and connected the headers to the mufflers. The car is very quiet. Almost too quiet. I has a nice deep tone. It is a hair louder than a new ZO6 Corvette.
Andrew

I searched this thread but did not find any specifics on the rest of your exhaust besides the x-pipe.

There seem to be a bunch of questions in the exhaust section about quiet exhaust systems, and you seem to have figured it out. :twothumbs What kind of mufflers and headers are you running?

[andrewb70]

I searched this thread but did not find any specifics on the rest of your exhaust besides the x-pipe.

There seem to be a bunch of questions in the exhaust section about quiet exhaust systems, and you seem to have figured it out. :twothumbs What kind of mufflers and headers are you running?

The headers are from Edelbrock. They ar ethe new LSx swap headers for 68-72 A-bodies. They have a 3" collector that goes to a dr.gas 3" X-pipe. The mufflers are from a company that I do not believe is in business anymore. It was called Straightline Performance. They are very big, similar to Dynomax Ultra Flows. From the mufflers I have 3" tailpipes. So the system is 3" all the way from the collectors to the exhust tips.

Andrew

[gearbanger]

Andrew, did you ever check the bump steer on the new ATS spindles like you did the B-body stuff. I have pretty much the same setup you had, and I am thinking of doing pretty much the same conversion. Just wondering what the final results were.

[andrewb70]

Andrew, did you ever check the bump steer on the new ATS spindles like you did the B-body stuff. I have pretty much the same setup you had, and I am thinking of doing pretty much the same conversion. Just wondering what the final results were.

I had all the intention in the world to document the bump steer with the ATS spindles, but I just ran out of time. My new brakes came and I put them on the car, then the o-ring in the TOB went out a week before RTTH. I was running out of time and checking the bump steer fell off the "to do" list. I can tell you that I definitely notice a difference when driving the car. I've gone over big bumps with just one side of the car and it tracks straight and true. That was not the case with the B-body spindles.

Andrew

[gearbanger]

Yes, you definitely can notice bump steer with the B-body spindles. I was just wondering actually how much improvement you get. I am not a corner carver, so I am not real motivated to spend all the money to make it just perfect. Oddly enough, I am more interested in doing it so that when I launch at the drags I have less toe in when the front end comes up. Crazy, I know.

[andrewb70]

Yes, you definitely can notice bump steer with the B-body spindles. I was just wondering actually how much improvement you get. I am not a corner carver, so I am not real motivated to spend all the money to make it just perfect. Oddly enough, I am more interested in doing it so that when I launch at the drags I have less toe in when the front end comes up. Crazy, I know.

For steady state cornering the b-body spindles do the job. They are taller and give a better camber curve. However, if you are to hit a bump during a hard corner, the bump steer upsets the car, and that can be dangerous. I would definitely go with the ATS spindles even for drag racing. For the simple reason that you can get excellent, modern brakes, and probably a reduction in unsprung weight. I am not sure about the toe issue that you mention.

Andrew

[gearbanger]

When you launch and both front wheel droop, the tie rods pull in and the wheels toe in creating more drag. Most drag racers set their alignment with the front end jacked up a few inches to compensate. I don't really want to do that because mine is 99% street driven, but it would be cool to fix it with better technology.

[Steve68]

Andrew, I have a set of the "not made" mufflers Rhino Performer RPM mufflers, a lot like Magna Flows, straight thru, had them on a test Nova, quiet, but louder when on the pedal,

[KevMc]

Is that your GTO in the 05 Holley catalog?

[andrewb70]

Is that your GTO in the 05 Holley catalog?

Yes Sir.

I worked at Holley for a while.

In case some of you were wondering where the pictures went, it is all fixed. The issue was tied in with our forum troubles from last week. :machine:

Andrew

[DIK069]

Nice write up Andrew. Learnt a lot.

Would you use the same size clutch master cylinder again ?

[andrewb70]

Nice write up Andrew. Learnt a lot.

Would you use the same size clutch master cylinder again ?

I think with this particular setup, given the rather long stroke of this MC, even a slightly smaller .625" bore MC can be used. However the current .700" seems to work very well when the stroke is reduced, as I did, or if a pedal stop is fabricated.

Andrew

[andrewb70]

Here is a video clip that was made by Brian Finch. Thanks Brian!

RTTH Video (http://hotrodtransformations.com/AndrewB70%20RTTHIV.wmv)

Please right click and save to your local drive.

Andrew

[oestek]

Here's the feature on Andrew's GTO from the RTTH IV event... this video features an interview with the man, plus drag and auto-x footage. Killer car, man!

http://v8tvshow.com/content/view/724/40/

[tom_a]

Here's the feature on Andrew's GTO from the RTTH IV event... this video features an interview with the man, plus drag and auto-x footage. Killer car, man!

http://v8tvshow.com/content/view/724/40/

Very nice work Kevin! Very cool that you do these events etc.
Is the complete video for sale now?

[andrewb70]

Here's the feature on Andrew's GTO from the RTTH IV event... this video features an interview with the man, plus drag and auto-x footage. Killer car, man!

http://v8tvshow.com/content/view/724/40/

Kevin,

I really want to thank you for putting together such a great segment. Thank you!

But next time please only use one camera. They say the camera ads about 10 pounds, you must have been using 5. I have my new years resolution!

Andrew

[oestek]

Very nice work Kevin! Very cool that you do these events etc.
Is the complete video for sale now?

Thanks Tom,

Yes, the video is available and shipping now. 2 versions, in fact... one "production" version that this came from, and a raw cut of all the autocross runs back to back, like 1.5 hours of footage. The link to get the RTTH vid is under the video player window in Andrew's video on our site. We still have to add the auto-x video to the store, but email me if you're interested.

- Kevin

[oestek]

Kevin,

I really want to thank you for putting together such a great segment. Thank you!

But next time please only use one camera. They say the camera ads about 10 pounds, you must have been using 5. I have my new years resolution!

Andrew

Thank you for building a killer car to shoot, Andrew! I'll join you on your resolution. Is that support thread still hot here?

[andrewb70]

Thank you for building a killer car to shoot, Andrew! I'll join you on your resolution. Is that support thread still hot here?

It is a sticky in the Outhouse.

https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38298&page=7

Andrew

[cdoggy81]

I'm glad Kevin added that little comment at the end about the steam vent line. I then went back through the thread & looked at how you did it. I really liked were you put it vs. other locations I've seen so I think I will go that route. Thanks again :)

[oestek]

That was a good trick... heck, there's lots of 'em in that car.

[cdoggy81]

True! A very well documented & informative thread for sure!

[singer69]

Thank you for all the great info here! The info and help I have recieved so far on this forum is priceless. Can't wait till the weather warms up here so I can get started on mine! Thank you again, she is one wicked GTO. -Andy

[ProTouring442]

I suspect that your GW arms would not work either. What is it that bothers you about the adjustable control arms?

I took the car to the track this Saturday. The weather was awesome. Clear skies, dry, and high 60s. I only made 3 passes because my time was limited and there were a ton of people at the track. All passes were made without fooling around with tire pressure or shock settings. Drove it right off the street, into the staging lanes. My first pass netted the best MPH to date; 112.31 MPH. The second pass netted a my best ET to date:

60' 2.064
1/4 12.602
MPH 110.97

This is my last trip to the track for this year and I am very pleased.

Andrew

Andrew,

I LOVE your GTO! In fact, it is one of the reasons I am building my 442, though the 442 will be more of a street car as compared to your GTO.

As for the GW upper arms, why exactly did you need to change them? According to the ATS website, the tall spindles will workwith aftermarket arms:

"Will my aftermarket tubular control arms fit with the AFX spindle?
Yes. The F/X body version of the AFX spindle will fit with any factory or aftermarket replacement control arm. This includes Global West, DSE, Hotchkis, Speed Tech, and others."

In fact, they even recommend the GW B-body upper arms:

"For the A body version of the tall AFX spindle, the upper control arm will have to be replaced. We recommend SC&C or B body spindle swap arms from Global West, Hotchkis, and other similar manufacturers."

I'm not questioning you on this as, Lord knows, you are far more educated than I am on this sort of thing, I was just wondering as to the reasons you felt they needed changing.

Shiny Side Up!
Bill

[trapin]

It may take Andrew some time to answer you...he's on the other side of the planet for the next couple of weeks.

[Steve1968LS2]

Love your car Andrew, it's probably one of my favorite non-Camaros out there.

How did you do your head steam vent? I can't find it in the thread...

[7TSS]

Andrew,

I LOVE your GTO! In fact, it is one of the reasons I am building my 442, though the 442 will be more of a street car as compared to your GTO.

As for the GW upper arms, why exactly did you need to change them? According to the ATS website, the tall spindles will workwith aftermarket arms:

"Will my aftermarket tubular control arms fit with the AFX spindle?
Yes. The F/X body version of the AFX spindle will fit with any factory or aftermarket replacement control arm. This includes Global West, DSE, Hotchkis, Speed Tech, and others."

In fact, they even recommend the GW B-body upper arms:

"For the A body version of the tall AFX spindle, the upper control arm will have to be replaced. We recommend SC&C or B body spindle swap arms from Global West, Hotchkis, and other similar manufacturers."

I'm not questioning you on this as, Lord knows, you are far more educated than I am on this sort of thing, I was just wondering as to the reasons you felt they needed changing.

Shiny Side Up!
Bill

I ran into the same situation when I replaced the B-body spindle with the ATS tall spindle. The GW negative roll arms for B-body spindles would give way too much negative camber since the ATS spindle has more negative camber designed into it. Even GW's website says it won't work with ATS spindles. They have a G-Plus upper arm that will work though.

[ProTouring442]

I ran into the same situation when I replaced the B-body spindle with the ATS tall spindle. The GW negative roll arms for B-body spindles would give way too much negative camber since the ATS spindle has more negative camber designed into it. Even GW's website says it won't work with ATS spindles. They have a G-Plus upper arm that will work though.

Well crud.... those damned arms are expensive! I wonder if it makes a difference that I have no radically lowered my car?

Ah well, I guess I'll figure it out when the time comes... once I find a new job!

Shiny Side Up!
Bill

[cdoggy81]

Steve,
It is in the early posts. He tapped into the water pump.

[andrewb70]

I really haven't had much to report up until now. Yesterday I was looking around on www.chevelles.com, a member posted that he just had his Doug Nash 4+1 converted to dog-ring engagement by Liberty. This got me thinking. The old Doug Nash is very similar to my Richmond 6 spd. I have never been very pleased with the way my transmission shifts. I have dealt with Liberty before on a dog-rign T56 transmission for my RX7, and I was very pleased with the results. So after talking it over with Paul, I decided to get my Richmond done. Gears 1-4 will get faceplated and 5th and 6th will remain synchronized. No need to have dog-rings on cruising gears. Total price will be about $800. I am pretty excited!

Andrew

[Kenova]

I'm guessing it was the syncros you weren't happy with and not the shifter/linkage. How well did it shift as compared to an unmodified T56?
I'm curious, what ratios are you running, and would you change them if you had the opportunity?
Considering the beating your's has taken, I'd say the torque rating is a little on the low side for these transmissions.
I'm thinking about getting one for my Nova. Your's has proved reliable, they have a huge selection of ratios, and I don't have to carve up my transmission tunnel. Would you care to offer any advice or comments?

Ken

[Steve1968LS2]

Damn Andrew.. a red PT GTO was just on Barrett-Jackson.. thought it was yours until I saw it wasn't an LS engine. lol

Hope to see it again when we're out there this year.

[andrewb70]

I'm guessing it was the syncros you weren't happy with and not the shifter/linkage. How well did it shift as compared to an unmodified T56?
I'm curious, what ratios are you running, and would you change them if you had the opportunity?
Considering the beating your's has taken, I'd say the torque rating is a little on the low side for these transmissions.
I'm thinking about getting one for my Nova. Your's has proved reliable, they have a huge selection of ratios, and I don't have to carve up my transmission tunnel. Would you care to offer any advice or comments?

Ken

Ken,

Sorry for the delay in my response. You are correct, it is not the shifter that I have complaints about, it is actually the design of the synchros. As I understand it, the Richmond transmissions use a fairly old, T10 style synchros. It doesn't shift nearly as nice as a T56. Mine has the 2.77 1st gear, and 1:1 5th, with a .62 6th. The gearing is super close and that makes it nice.

Andrew

[1971CHEVELLE]

looks awesome
https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/../%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo129.jpg
Wheels look amazing on there

[Kenova]

As I understand it, the Richmond transmissions use a fairly old, T10 style synchros. It doesn't shift nearly as nice as a T56.

Andrew
For the money they want for them, one would think they would make an effort to update the syncros. I'm not too sure a faceplated tranny would suit me for the street. I'm gettin' old and slowin' down, lol, in which case the old syncros may be just fine for me.
I'm leaning towards the 2.77 1st gear also, but with the .84 6th with a 3.23 to 3.55 rear gear. The highest legal speed near me is 100kph (62mph), although you can usally get away with 120 kph on the bigger highways providing traffic is moving fast enough.

Ken

[andrewb70]

looks awesome
....
Wheels look amazing on there


Thanks you!

Ken,

If modifying the floor is a concern, the Richmond is your only option. I think the Tremec, both the T56 and the TKO are better shifting transmissions, and they are less expensive.

Andrew

[andrewb70]

Drove to the track on Tuesday evening. Didn't make any adjustments to the car at the track. Ran a 12.57@112 and a 12.52@112, then drove home.

Andrew