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    Results 1 to 19 of 19
    1. #1
      Join Date
      Sep 2010
      Location
      West of St. Louis. O'Fallon, MO
      Posts
      78
      Country Flag: United States

      handling question

      Since I installed the new tires and wheels, the car wants to dart around on the highway. Do I have an alignment issue or what?

      Tires are Kumho Ecsta MX 200 UTQG.

      Fronts: 245/45/17
      Rears: 275/40/18
      Jeremy Holman
      '73 Camaro RS Z/28. 388 cid, 200-4R Art Carr, C5 brakes, Hydroboost, Budnik Hammers, PTFB GT Springs, Subframe Connectors, Solid body bushings, G Braces, Front and Rear Sway bars.

    2. #2
      Join Date
      May 2002
      Location
      Northern California
      Posts
      10,716
      Country Flag: United States
      Yep, start with the alignment and go from there. Be sure to make note of the old specs. We would like to see them.
      MrQuick ΜΟΛ'ΩΝ ΛΑΒ'Ε


    3. #3
      Join Date
      Sep 2010
      Location
      West of St. Louis. O'Fallon, MO
      Posts
      78
      Country Flag: United States
      I had it aligned but I think they put it to stock specs.
      Left Right
      Camber 1 1
      Caster .4 .2
      Toe .2 .2


      What should I be running?
      Jeremy Holman
      '73 Camaro RS Z/28. 388 cid, 200-4R Art Carr, C5 brakes, Hydroboost, Budnik Hammers, PTFB GT Springs, Subframe Connectors, Solid body bushings, G Braces, Front and Rear Sway bars.

    4. #4
      Join Date
      Jul 2010
      Location
      Sacramento, CA
      Posts
      1,214
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by 73RSZ28 View Post
      What should I be running?
      Toe in. It sounds like that is .2 toe out. Toe out will pre load the tire for turn in, which is good for racing but makes the car follow every little variation in the road. Toe in will load the tire in the opposite direction and make the car track better. Additional positive caster will help the car feel more stable too.
      -James

      1974 Z28 SCCA C Prepared
      1990 Firebird NASA CMC
      2005 Mustang GT SCCA F-Street (new for 2015)
      1989 Civic Si SCCA STC

    5. #5
      Join Date
      Sep 2010
      Location
      West of St. Louis. O'Fallon, MO
      Posts
      78
      Country Flag: United States
      it is toe in. total toe in is .36. I think it could use more positive caster.
      Jeremy Holman
      '73 Camaro RS Z/28. 388 cid, 200-4R Art Carr, C5 brakes, Hydroboost, Budnik Hammers, PTFB GT Springs, Subframe Connectors, Solid body bushings, G Braces, Front and Rear Sway bars.

    6. #6
      Join Date
      Dec 2010
      Location
      Fredericksburg, VA.
      Posts
      3,164
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by 73RSZ28 View Post
      I had it aligned but I think they put it to stock specs.
      I had a similar experience with a local alignment shop. Mind you I have a DSE subframe front and G-link/9" rear. The tech asked what year it was and started looking up specs for a 68 Camaro. When I informed him that he couldn't use the factory settings he said that was the only way he could set the front end. Needless to say I left at that point. It was interesting to learn that some repair shops have policies that require the tech to only use factory specs completely ignoring non-stock suspensions. I finally just decided to buy the tools and do my own alignments.
      Steve Hayes
      "Dust Off"
      68 Camaro

      Support the RPM Act
      https://www.sema.org/rpm-faq.

    7. #7
      Join Date
      Sep 2006
      Location
      Austin, TX
      Posts
      164
      Country Flag: United States
      Not to hijack the thread but JDMan how easy and accurate is it to do your own alignments? How long does it take and which tool do you have?

    8. #8
      Join Date
      Jul 2010
      Location
      Sacramento, CA
      Posts
      1,214
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by sgernon View Post
      Not to hijack the thread but JDMan how easy and accurate is it to do your own alignments? How long does it take and which tool do you have?
      It can be very accurate. I do my own alignments. If it was my car I would keep the steering wheel centered and turn the tie rod adjusters half a turn each side for more toe in and test drive it.
      -James

      1974 Z28 SCCA C Prepared
      1990 Firebird NASA CMC
      2005 Mustang GT SCCA F-Street (new for 2015)
      1989 Civic Si SCCA STC

    9. #9
      Join Date
      Sep 2010
      Location
      West of St. Louis. O'Fallon, MO
      Posts
      78
      Country Flag: United States
      It does pull to the right also.
      Jeremy Holman
      '73 Camaro RS Z/28. 388 cid, 200-4R Art Carr, C5 brakes, Hydroboost, Budnik Hammers, PTFB GT Springs, Subframe Connectors, Solid body bushings, G Braces, Front and Rear Sway bars.

    10. #10
      Join Date
      Jul 2010
      Location
      Sacramento, CA
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      Quote Originally Posted by 73RSZ28 View Post
      It does pull to the right also.
      The cross caster (difference from right to left) is causing that.
      -James

      1974 Z28 SCCA C Prepared
      1990 Firebird NASA CMC
      2005 Mustang GT SCCA F-Street (new for 2015)
      1989 Civic Si SCCA STC

    11. #11
      Join Date
      Sep 2010
      Location
      West of St. Louis. O'Fallon, MO
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      78
      Country Flag: United States
      Where do you shim for positive caster?
      Jeremy Holman
      '73 Camaro RS Z/28. 388 cid, 200-4R Art Carr, C5 brakes, Hydroboost, Budnik Hammers, PTFB GT Springs, Subframe Connectors, Solid body bushings, G Braces, Front and Rear Sway bars.

    12. #12
      Join Date
      Dec 2006
      Location
      Out of the Burbs of Detroit to SoCal, then onto my ancestral homeland, the woods of Cascadia
      Posts
      1,753
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      Same place as camber, upper A-arm bolts, but use different thickness shims front and rear
      Greg Fast
      (yes, the last name is spelled correctly)

      1970 Camaro RS Clone
      1984 el Camino
      1973 MGB vintage E/Prod race car
      (Soon to be an SCCA H/Prod limited prep)

    13. #13
      Join Date
      Sep 2010
      Location
      West of St. Louis. O'Fallon, MO
      Posts
      78
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      Quote Originally Posted by Twentyover View Post
      Same place as camber, upper A-arm bolts, but use different thickness shims front and rear
      I got a handle on that much, what I'm asking is where to put more shims front or rear?
      Jeremy Holman
      '73 Camaro RS Z/28. 388 cid, 200-4R Art Carr, C5 brakes, Hydroboost, Budnik Hammers, PTFB GT Springs, Subframe Connectors, Solid body bushings, G Braces, Front and Rear Sway bars.

    14. #14
      Join Date
      Jul 2010
      Location
      Sacramento, CA
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      1,214
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      Putting more shims in the upper control arm on the rear (near the firewall) bolt will increase the caster. It moves the upper ball joint further towards the rear of the car, it will also move the ball joint toward the center of the vehicle slightly and increase the camber. I would say 1 1/8th inch shim to both rear tires and a 1/4 turn of toe in, and your pull will go away.
      -James

      1974 Z28 SCCA C Prepared
      1990 Firebird NASA CMC
      2005 Mustang GT SCCA F-Street (new for 2015)
      1989 Civic Si SCCA STC

    15. #15
      Join Date
      May 2008
      Location
      Toronto
      Posts
      213
      Country Flag: Canada
      More shims on the rear bolt will tip the ball joint back and give you more caster.
      You need to do it in the right order so you don't mess up either caster or camber when you set the other. Not sure what the order is.

    16. #16
      Join Date
      Jul 2010
      Location
      Sacramento, CA
      Posts
      1,214
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      Well to adjust caster and not change camber you need to take a shim out from the front. The amount of shims to add and remove is a simple trigonometry equation, most good alignment racks will not only let you input your desired end stats, but also calculate how many shims to put in. The the home customer trial and error is usually easier and faster.

      -James

      1974 Z28 SCCA C Prepared
      1990 Firebird NASA CMC
      2005 Mustang GT SCCA F-Street (new for 2015)
      1989 Civic Si SCCA STC


    17. #17
      Join Date
      Sep 2010
      Location
      West of St. Louis. O'Fallon, MO
      Posts
      78
      Country Flag: United States
      Well I took it back to the "big box store" that did the alignment the first time. I requested the specs to be set at 2-3 degrees positive caster, 0-1 negative camber, and 0-1/16" toe in. They would not deviate from the factory specs and kindly gave me a refund. I located a local shop owned by a SCCA guy and he was more than helpful. We ended up at 1.4 degrees positive caster, 0 camber, and 3/32" total toe. He ran out of adjustment on my studs. Also my drivers tire is starting to rub the bottom rear of the inner fender.
      Jeremy Holman
      '73 Camaro RS Z/28. 388 cid, 200-4R Art Carr, C5 brakes, Hydroboost, Budnik Hammers, PTFB GT Springs, Subframe Connectors, Solid body bushings, G Braces, Front and Rear Sway bars.

    18. #18
      Join Date
      Jul 2010
      Location
      Sacramento, CA
      Posts
      1,214
      Country Flag: United States
      Drive better now? Thats what really matters.
      -James

      1974 Z28 SCCA C Prepared
      1990 Firebird NASA CMC
      2005 Mustang GT SCCA F-Street (new for 2015)
      1989 Civic Si SCCA STC

    19. #19
      Join Date
      Sep 2010
      Location
      West of St. Louis. O'Fallon, MO
      Posts
      78
      Country Flag: United States
      Seems to be more stable, time will tell. Some aftermarket control arms are in my future!
      Jeremy Holman
      '73 Camaro RS Z/28. 388 cid, 200-4R Art Carr, C5 brakes, Hydroboost, Budnik Hammers, PTFB GT Springs, Subframe Connectors, Solid body bushings, G Braces, Front and Rear Sway bars.




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