Over heating.

[jtm311]

Guys just finished working out all the bugs on the car, but I'm having an over heating problem.
I want to confirm the fan directions. Right now I'm pushing the air out which I think is incorrect. So tonight I will switch it so it draws the air in across the radiator. Also, do I need any relief hole in the shroud?

You can see the setup in the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNtZWrpGhhE



Thanks,
john

[keithq69]

Beautiful car first off.
You're right, the fans should draw air in through the rad in the same direction the air will be forced through while driving.

[jtm311]

Thanks Keith, I'm happy the way it turned out. I don't know why I was thinking it had to go the other way, but it hit me on the drive into work today that is was back wards.

John

[SkinsandJrfan]

So with the fan on, if you put your hand between the fan and engine, it should be blowing towards the engine rather than pulling away from the engine correct? This now has me 2nd guessing how mine is blowing. Lol.

[jtm311]

So with the fan on, if you put your hand between the fan and engine, it should be blowing towards the engine rather than pulling away from the engine correct? This now has me 2nd guessing how mine is blowing. Lol.

right now mine is blowing out, Which I'm now sure is wrong. It should be pulling in the cooler air.

[jtm311]

It helped to change the direction, however still is a problem.
I've checked the timing again total is set to 34 deg
checked the valve lash
changed to a litter spring in the distributor
left the rad cap of getting flow once thermostattate opChangednaged from a 180 to a 160.
Set the fans to come on at 155 deg.

anyone have any ideas?


John

[sam 74]

your timing sounds right and your thermostat should be good, i'd looking into either a lean condition, not enough radiator, or not enough airflow through the radiator.

[jtm311]

your timing sounds right and your thermostat should be good, i'd looking into either a lean condition, not enough radiator, or not enough airflow through the radiator.

I set the efi to run real rich to rule out a lean situation. The fan is a 2500 cfm. Anyone think by adding a few holes in the shroud would help?

[DarkoNova]

When exactly is it overheating? While driving or when you're stopped at a light or in traffic?

[jtm311]

When exactly is it overheating? While driving or when you're stopped at a light or in traffic?

Matt, she sat for about 5 minutes went up to 185 then I took her for a drive to see if the air flow would lower it, however, she climbed up to about 220 within about a 4 minute drive shut her down after that. keep in mind she has a 160 thermostat

[uraceulose]

You may need more like 4000 REAL cfm. Look into the 93-97 fbody or Lincoln mark viii/ford windstar or Taurus fans.
They are all known to work well.
I used the Camaro fan, steilow uses mark viii fans.
Other than that, better radiator.

The aftermarket 2500 cfm fans don't work worth a crap if you live in a hot climate. (100+ here for just about a month straight now) :/

[DarkoNova]

A lower temp thermostat won't make it run any cooler. It's just there to help the engine warm up faster and increase turbulence in the coolant flow.

Have you burped the system? What kind of fan is it? Does it cover the whole radiator? The shroud should cover the entire core. What kind of pulleys are you using? I don't remember if the water pump pulley is supposed to be smaller or larger than the crank pulley, but I know if it's not the right size, it will cause overheating problems. Hopefully someone will chime in with the right size.

[Murdermerc]

Darko nova is correct . Alot of people put a smaller water pump pulley on to speed up the flow. This can cause a problem if the radiator is not large enough. What happens is the coolant gets forced through the core so quickly it never cools down enough.
If you have a thermal gun test each side of the radiator at the tanks . You should have about a 20 degree temperature difference. If not your water pump pulley could be too small or the radiator needs to be larger.
Also in some cases the lower temp thermostat could be hurting you. Think of it like two separate water sources one in the engine and the other in the rad. The thermostat is the door in between. Once the engine hits the 160 the water in the rad trades places with the engine.
But if the water in the rad hadn't cooled below 160 and the engine side hits 160 when they switch places again the thermostat will just stay open.
Keep us posted on your findings , I'm sure some others will chime in with some other ideas as well.
Paul

[Wheel Werkes]

Those last two post were very good and a great step in diagnosing the issue. Alot of times there are air bubbles in the system like mentioned above. And having the right fans is a huge plus.
Have you ever had problems with the head gasket?

[jtm311]

Ok this should answer some of the questions above. I will try and swap out back to the 180. Also I'm not using the bypass however, the thermostats are bypass versions.
As show below I'm using the March system and have all new parts so should be no problem with head gaskets, no water in the oil thank god.
Can you explain how to burped the system? What I did is raise the front end and filled the system. Also, left the radiator cap off and ran it up to temp and the flow seemed to not have allot of air. One last point, since I'm using the fast EFI I have a temp sensor on the front manifold and my gauge sensor is in the lower block on the pass side both are within 3 deg of each other, if that matters at all.

[DarkoNova]

I want to say that since the pulley is part of a kit, it should be fine, but I've learned never to assume things, lol. Might want to check the part number of the kit and make sure the water pump isn't being underdriven.

Is the thermostat a high performance one? High performance/high flow thermostats are usually required with high flow water pumps (not sure if you have one or not) but they usually have a couple small holes drilled in them to allow a little coolant to flow even when the thermostat is closed. Supposedly it helps the engine warm up faster, but it also helps bleed the system. The way you did it is correct, so you shouldn't have to worry about air in the system.

What kind of radiator and fan setup is that? What brand is the radiator and what brand is the fan? How big is the radiator core, how many rows, etc. How many cfm does the fan claim to flow?

I have a cheap Champion aluminum radiator from ebay, I forget the core size, but I want to say something like 18x24? It's a two row radiator. That, with a Taurus fan that covers the entire core, and a Stage 2 Stewart pump and 180º thermostat keep my engine nice and cool, even in the 105º heat we've been having lately.

[Mingus]

Does the March setup use a standard or reverse rotation water pump?

[jtm311]

A lower temp thermostat won't make it run any cooler. It's just there to help the engine warm up faster and increase turbulence in the coolant flow.

Have you burped the system? What kind of fan is it? Does it cover the whole radiator? The shroud should cover the entire core. What kind of pulleys are you using? I don't remember if the water pump pulley is supposed to be smaller or larger than the crank pulley, but I know if it's not the right size, it will cause overheating problems. Hopefully someone will chime in with the right size.

Matt thanks after reversing the fan flow and changing to the 180 fixed the problem! She idled for about 15 min went to about 190 and no higher. After driving it for about another 15 min she cam right down to 182 and stayed there Now it was not crazy hot last night as it was the past weekend I still want to look at the shroud that I made and the fan. It is a 2500 cfm and someone has already commented that they are not real performance fans. I still wonder if I should have put a louvers in the shroud to allow more air to flow across the rad or may this hurt?

Thanks for all the feedback.

[jtm311]

Does the March setup use a standard or reverse rotation water pump?

Mike the main reason I went with this setup was I already had a standard long water pump. Not the high flow.
Thanks

[SparkyRnD]

the 'louver' concept is for higher speeds, as sometimes if the fan doesn't move enough air, you get a bottle neck effect of air and it 'backs up'. But, if you are keeping cool at highway speeds, then louvers are not needed.