Am I expecting too much?

[Apogee]

...Yes pad Cf is a huge factor but...if the extra pad Cf doen't do it for ya here is more info. Ceramic pads are only for show because of no dusting. Not too good at stopping....

True, in a way, however "Ceramic" in an of itself means very little. I can say that we hear numerous incorrect assumptions on a daily basis regarding pads, specifically "Ceramic" pads, and it's tough to separate hype and marketing from fact without either technical date, personal experience, or preferably both to back it up. For the most part, "Ceramic" pads are being marketed currently as the low-dust, low-noise, low-rotor wear option within most friction manufacturer product lines, optimally suited towards power-assist applications where those characteristics are preferred over initial bite and higher coefficients of friction and therefore brake torques.



Food for thought...every pad compound offered by Carbotech is technically "Ceramic", from their street compounds all the way up to their full race compounds. Similarly, Satisfied, a Canadian friction manufacturer is the same way. Many friction compounds have upwards of 30 or 40 individual components and there is no regulating body that determines what you can or cannot call any given brake pad, so buyer beware.

Tobin
KORE3

[a67]

Bore size to caliper volume will determine overall pedal stroke. Pedal ratio will add a little more pedal stroke just because you will be able to push the M/C harder with the same leg input. If you have a nice solid pedal on a 7/8 master with a 5:1 pr. Then going to 6:1 or 7:1 will be minimal stroke difference.

There is more to it then this. The issue is, will there be enough stroke to activate the brakes on one end of the car when the other end has a leak. IOW, you need to bottom out the piston on the leaking circuit before the good circuit will operate.

Had that issue with the car with the manual brakes on it. Previous owner had too high of a pedal ratio. Which in turn did not allow any braking with one of the circuits leaking.

Bob.

[RSX302]

True, in a way, however "Ceramic" in an of itself means very little. I can say that we hear numerous incorrect assumptions on a daily basis regarding pads, specifically "Ceramic" pads, and it's tough to separate hype and marketing from fact without either technical date, personal experience, or preferably both to back it up. For the most part, "Ceramic" pads are being marketed currently as the low-dust, low-noise, low-rotor wear option within most friction manufacturer product lines, optimally suited towards power-assist applications where those characteristics are preferred over initial bite and higher coefficients of friction and therefore brake torques.

Food for thought...every pad compound offered by Carbotech is technically "Ceramic", from their street compounds all the way up to their full race compounds. Similarly, Satisfied, a Canadian friction manufacturer is the same way. Many friction compounds have upwards of 30 or 40 individual components and there is no regulating body that determines what you can or cannot call any given brake pad, so buyer beware.

Tobin
KORE3

True..I'm sure over the years as like anything else, advancements have been made. I can only speak of past ceramics I've deal with. One in particular was rated only to 500deg with a .3-.35cf. (I no longer see in there lineup, so that may tell you somthing)

So in response, it would be best to state, make sure you pick the right pad for your application. Hard part for people is, what is the right application? For the most part, trial and error. Which is where you try and give the most info to help choose--Or confuse sometimes in my case..lol

[67gtonut]

I thought '67 had a 4 piston front caliper on their disc systems,went to single in 68?

Originally a Drum brake car...... installed a 69+ Single piston style.....

I dont think I can mess with my pedal ratio.....

So I am going to search for a good pad to install

[RSX302]

Originally a Drum brake car...... installed a 69+ Single piston style.....

I dont think I can mess with my pedal ratio.....

So I am going to search for a good pad to install

You can always modify pedal ratios.. but you should definitely try the pads first as they are the easiest and go from there. You will find out what you like or dislike.

[67gtonut]

Yeah...... I know but I will leave pedal ratio alone right now..... seeing as the car is was a manual brake car, and I dont have an exotic setup at the moment.... cant see it being too far off.

The pedal feel is nice now, the car noses over pretty hard under severe braking................ it just feels like the car glides to a stop, so I look for a better/grippier set of front pads....

So for just a cruise night / around town muscle car....... do the Hawk HPS pads serve the purpose?

[Skip Fix]

FWIW if you saw the other thread on friction for pads old Bendix organic pads FF and their semi metallics EE. But from what I remember when I used them the semi metallics were tough on that first morning stop and left ALOT of dust-ie rotor metal, on the wheels.

[67gtonut]

I ordered a set of Hawk HPS pads....

I assume I can just scuff up the current rotors to remove any pad residue from the last set..... correct?

[Skip Fix]

My Hawks do not have any notations on them as to coef.

[RSX302]

I ordered a set of Hawk HPS pads....

I assume I can just scuff up the current rotors to remove any pad residue from the last set..... correct?

Many diffrent pads out there and the manufacture can tell you, but when in doubt, sanding the rotors will never hurt and always work. Also do proper bedding per manufactures recommendation.

[67gtonut]

OK.....In my ongoing effort to figure out why I cant seem to get my car to stop like I think it should...... I think I need to invest in a Brake Pressure Gauge.

This one seems to be the best bang for the buck....

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SSB-A1704/




Anyone else have a kit they recommend?

[Skip Fix]

So for you guys using these brake gauges-how do you get it bled? Is there not soem air in the adapter? My Longacre gauges coem with a T that has a bleeder at the top.

[67gtonut]

OK.... think I found part of the problem.............

me.

Adjusted up the rear drums tighter..... switched back the Rayobestos pads ( didnt like the dust from the Hawks). Sanded the rotors and pads.... bed them in last night....

took car out today........ nice pedal....

and this time did a few panic stops.......... and really stood on the pedal. She stops pretty damn good, rears will now lock , fronts not yet, but it is close.

I think from driving cars all week with power brakes........... I am just not used to how much pressure it takes to lock up a manual brake car.....
I know it sounds stupid, but I think that is my issue.....

Has anyone else ever felt this issue? going from power brake cars 99% of the time to your manual brake "fun" ride.......

[Ron.in.SoCal]

Hey Troy....thx for the early moring chuckle. 33 posts to figure out you're not stomping on the pedal hard enough

[67gtonut]

Hey Troy....thx for the early moring chuckle. 33 posts to figure out you're not stomping on the pedal hard enough

Yeah..... I know...... but I am honest enough to admit it.....

Still cant lock the fronts, but who the hell knows, maybe the pads arent rebedded in enough yet.....

I guess its finally time to admit it............. I just dont like manual brakes..... been trying for years to blame the car, changing things, causing my own issues.....

So now to figure out what kind of power setup to go with.

Thinking a nice slimline 9" booster with a 1 1/8" master. Would like a complete setup, instead of piecing one together.

Glad I could provide the laugh, hopefully other will get a chuckle also...... lol

[Ron.in.SoCal]

You've got a good attitude about it! Throw a hydroboost on it and don't look back...

[Fuelie Nova]

Troy
I went thru exactly the same thing on my 66 Nova, I mean the part about I just had to admit I didn't like manual brakes I installed a hydraboost and love it.
Tom

[DarkoNova]

Yeah, I haven't driven my car in the last 3 years, so when I finally took it out for a drive I damn near rearended the guy in front of me on the freeway offramp. I haven't tried to see if I can lock the wheels up, probably will in the next few days. I wanted to get some Carbotech AX6's, but hopefully my current pads will be fine.

I never understood how you were supposed to use those brake pressure gauges, either. How are you supposed to bleed the system with the gauge there?

[Fuelie Nova]

I found bleeding the gauge was the least of my worries, even with a little air I was desperately low on pressure.
Tom

[67gtonut]

You've got a good attitude about it! Throw a hydroboost on it and don't look back...

Read up some on the Hydroboost........... like to keep the engine compartment as clean looking as possible. Hydroboost does seem to lend itself to that, in the pics I have seen....
Will probably do a conventional vacumn booster.