No Limit Challenge - er

[gotstang]

RobNoLimit

I Like what You are doing on the Challenger Keep up the good Work and keep the pictures coming of the progress . Gotstang

[RobNoLimit]

It may look like I'm skipping around a bit, and maybe I am, but trust me, I do have a plan. Over the past 10 years or so I have focused a lot on what I consider 'packaging'. There are some components of a car that MUST to be a in a certain position, a certain shape, a size ... and we don't want to compromise on these items in anyway that would hurt performance, drivability, ride quality or the like. Then there are what I call the support systems. Things like brake lines, fuel lines, wiring exhaust, fuel tank, cooling systems..... All of these things also have to be part of the build, but there is a bit more creative room here. And thats where planning and packaging come into play. I spend a lot of thought time during a build thinking about where the brake and fuel ines will be, the tank, battery, and exhaust. We build our own tanks, they can be any shape, I'm pretty good at plumbing brake & fuel lines, but there has to be a pathway for them, batteries are a fixed size and shape, but we can mount them anywhere that makes sense....... and so on.
So, for the Challenger here, no compromise on suspension design, safety, or driveability. Also, I hate seeing a bunch of crap hanging under a car. Can't have it. No no no. In working on the trans tunnel and floor, I realized it would be much easier to fab the center section of the exhaust before I started welding in the tunnel. We are going with a offset three link, so some of that is in the way of the exhaust as well. Here is the 'must have' list. The chassis is 4" tall, so 3" max exhaust hieght (1" min from floor to exhaust), needs to transition from the center of the X outboard of the third link bracing, must drop to 2" total hieght to pass under the third link brace, must have an 'X' or 'H' for sound and torque., must have driveshaft clearance, min gas flow passage is 4.90" sq. (same as 2 1/2" tube), allow for clearance of future brake and fuel lines and batt cables, AND, be easy to install from under the car. Having a checklist makes it easier to meet the goal. Thinking outside the box, or better yet, cutting up the box and using the cardboard for a template, may lead to a packaging solution way different that you thought at first. Here you have it.

[RobNoLimit]

In the chassis, it fits nice and it fills all the boxes on the checklist. The bottom of the transfer box is flush with the bottom of the chassis. There is 1"+ floor clearance, and good clearance all around. The inlets and outlets will be fitted with V-bands for connecting to the head and tail pipes. So now I'll fab up some mounts, and the rear sections of the head pipes, then I can get back to the floor.

I just don't know what to call it.

[mmosley]

How about an X-Box...

[GrabberGT]

Thats just absolutely nuts.... BUT I DIG IT!

[shane38]

It may look like I'm skipping around a bit, and maybe I am, but trust me, I do have a plan. Over the past 10 years or so I have focused a lot on what I consider 'packaging'. There are some components of a car that MUST to be a in a certain position, a certain shape, a size ... and we don't want to compromise on these items in anyway that would hurt performance, drivability, ride quality or the like. Then there are what I call the support systems. Things like brake lines, fuel lines, wiring exhaust, fuel tank, cooling systems..... All of these things also have to be part of the build, but there is a bit more creative room here. And thats where planning and packaging come into play. I spend a lot of thought time during a build thinking about where the brake and fuel ines will be, the tank, battery, and exhaust. We build our own tanks, they can be any shape, I'm pretty good at plumbing brake & fuel lines, but there has to be a pathway for them, batteries are a fixed size and shape, but we can mount them anywhere that makes sense....... and so on.
So, for the Challenger here, no compromise on suspension design, safety, or driveability. Also, I hate seeing a bunch of crap hanging under a car. Can't have it. No no no. In working on the trans tunnel and floor, I realized it would be much easier to fab the center section of the exhaust before I started welding in the tunnel. We are going with a offset three link, so some of that is in the way of the exhaust as well. Here is the 'must have' list. The chassis is 4" tall, so 3" max exhaust hieght (1" min from floor to exhaust), needs to transition from the center of the X outboard of the third link bracing, must drop to 2" total hieght to pass under the third link brace, must have an 'X' or 'H' for sound and torque., must have driveshaft clearance, min gas flow passage is 4.90" sq. (same as 2 1/2" tube), allow for clearance of future brake and fuel lines and batt cables, AND, be easy to install from under the car. Having a checklist makes it easier to meet the goal. Thinking outside the box, or better yet, cutting up the box and using the cardboard for a template, may lead to a packaging solution way different that you thought at first. Here you have it.

bitching!!

now i wanta make my own mufflers lol

[72BBSwinger]

WTFF? Get er dun!

[LM7_67]

Wow, that thing is crazy. W-pipe?

[High Plains Mopars]

I had to make my own mufflers once in a truck that I just couldn't get to quiet down without using multiple resonators. It actually isn't too hard to do and it certainly has a wow factor when people look at it. FWIW, my home made muffler did help significantly with highway droning. Did I give up some power with it, probably, but it was still cool.

[RobNoLimit]

The whole reason for building this crossover is so I could fit the rear section of the head pipes. This is going to be a lot easier without the tunnel in place. I fab these from std exhaust tubing and 2 1/2" mandrel U-bends. I needed a 1/2" step up, and then a 28 degree bend out. From here forward to the header is not to tough. The underside pict looks a little off kilter, but trust me, there nice and even. From the rear you can see some of the fitment issues.

[PhillipM]

I'm so interested to hear that muffler!

[Bryce]

I'm so interested to hear that muffler!

same here

[brawls43]

Loving this project! Are you going to use the wide 5 hubs? That would look sweet!

[RobNoLimit]

More progress. As the floor progresses, we need to place the seat and belt mounts. We got a test seat from Cerrullo and had the car owner come out for a fitment. Things are a bit close, as Jason is a bit taller than normal. I guess the longer arm is how you get a 100 mph fast ball. We tested on the passenger side (it was just easier) for seat height, front to rear slider placement, and headroom. With a little tip in the seat base, and the recline adjusted, we found the sweet spot and tacken in a brace. This will be a big step forward as I can use the seating position to set the pedals and column, and with the seat and belt mounts in place, we can finish the floor.

[dangina]

great work so far! I'm loving some of the ideas here..

[RobNoLimit]

One step closer. This is not such a big deal if your running an LS, or the normal SBC, but for the new Hemi, not so simple. After trying four set of headers, with no luck, it was time to make a move. the decision came down to A) Fab a full set of long tube headers. or B) Start with the best fitting set, and modify. The upside of option 'B' far out-weighed the 'A' option. Yes, we are giving up a few HP, but reasonably, only at higher rpm. Starter, clutch mech. steering.... all came into play. We started with a set of stainless 1 3/4" headers from Headman. They have a nice 3/8" thick flange and the port/tube weld was finished up and port matched (to the OE gasket) from the manufacturer. The drivers side required two tubes to be relocated, while the passenger side only needed one. On other shop projects currently going on here, like Tina's Mustang, the header install took 30 minutes. These took up two months of ordering, waiting, and testing, and then two days of fab time. I am hoping that this is one of the last big hurdles to clear, and that we can pick up the pace now.

[DTM Racing]

LOL...Welcome to my world. Mopars....Not for the faint of heart.

[mmosley]

LOL...Welcome to my world. Mopars....Not for the faint of heart.

So you are telling me that there are cars out there that have headers or other aftermarket parts that fit without modifications? What is that like?

From front to rear... off the top of my head. Just a few examples.

Frame had to be modified so the radiator could fit... when the MFG sent me the first one (as in the first one EVER made for my body style) it did not even come close to fitting. I had them send me the print since they did not believe me. I made notes on the print where the Engineer had not made a dimension clear and left it open for intepretation. The fabricator interpreted something different than the designer intended. I corrected the drawing and sent it, along with the radiator back. Even then, had to notch the pinch weld on the frame and weld the seam, but at least that was as advertised. MFG does not sell this radiator as a catalog part, by request only, due to this requirement.

Motor mounts... driver side sat 3/16" too high. Used a level... notched K-frame ears to allow the mount to sit lower, then had to trim the corner to clear the oil pump.

Milodon road race oil pan... notched K-frame and removed corners of the K-frame mount ears to clear the pan. That and a little more welding...

Headers... really? 2" "bolt in" headers did not clear in about three places and needed some strategic hammer adjustment. They burned any plug boot that dared come close to a spark plug. The "good fitting" tri-y headers only require grinding part of the block for clearance. Next set in this car I will make myself.

Intake... Edelbrock RPM fit perfectly after taking 0.110" off both mounting surfaces. My "new" intake manifold is a discontinued Chrysler part number that has not been made since maybe 1971. When I asked about EFI conversion for it the Mopar guy on the other end of the phone had never seen one in person before and was actually excited about doing the work. As of now it is 1 of 1 with this EFI conversion.

Only Cheetah makes a auto shifter that actually is designed to bring the cable in from the back. The others are a pain. The Cheetah is pretty much race only, not what I wanted, so had to make do with what was available. I am not sure there is a way to route the cable that keeps it from getting burnt. Well at least I don't have to worry about that anymore with a six speed...

Speaking of six speeds... No one makes a kit for this car... so, bought a kit made for a small block car to work with the Ford version of the T-56 Magnum. Several folks told me that it "might" not work for a big block and the GM version of the T-56 Magnum. Of course it worked... perfectly... after sectioning, redesigning, and fabricating additional pieces to make the rear trans mount work.

Fuel tank... design your own, have Rick's Tanks build it for you.

Want to hear the latest joke? I asked a guy about wheels at one of the local establishments. He asked for year, make, and model so he could check his fitment database. Sure... he has not replied back yet. It has been a few months now... should I call him back?

I can't imagine what it would be like to have something like an AMC, a Hudson, or something really oddball or rare. Mopars are hard enough to find parts for, at least some folks out there are trying. Some parts like bumpers, trim parts, tail lights and stuff are at least made now where 10 years ago they were not.

[DTM Racing]

So you are telling me that there are cars out there that have headers or other aftermarket parts that fit without modifications? What is that like?

From front to rear... off the top of my head. Just a few examples.

Frame had to be modified so the radiator could fit... when the MFG sent me the first one (as in the first one EVER made for my body style) it did not even come close to fitting. I had them send me the print since they did not believe me. I made notes on the print where the Engineer had not made a dimension clear and left it open for intepretation. The fabricator interpreted something different than the designer intended. I corrected the drawing and sent it, along with the radiator back. Even then, had to notch the pinch weld on the frame and weld the seam, but at least that was as advertised. MFG does not sell this radiator as a catalog part, by request only, due to this requirement.

Motor mounts... driver side sat 3/16" too high. Used a level... notched K-frame ears to allow the mount to sit lower, then had to trim the corner to clear the oil pump.

Milodon road race oil pan... notched K-frame and removed corners of the K-frame mount ears to clear the pan. That and a little more welding...

Headers... really? 2" "bolt in" headers did not clear in about three places and needed some strategic hammer adjustment. They burned any plug boot that dared come close to a spark plug. The "good fitting" tri-y headers only require grinding part of the block for clearance. Next set in this car I will make myself.

Intake... Edelbrock RPM fit perfectly after taking 0.110" off both mounting surfaces. My "new" intake manifold is a discontinued Chrysler part number that has not been made since maybe 1971. When I asked about EFI conversion for it the Mopar guy on the other end of the phone had never seen one in person before and was actually excited about doing the work. As of now it is 1 of 1 with this EFI conversion.

Only Cheetah makes a auto shifter that actually is designed to bring the cable in from the back. The others are a pain. The Cheetah is pretty much race only, not what I wanted, so had to make do with what was available. I am not sure there is a way to route the cable that keeps it from getting burnt. Well at least I don't have to worry about that anymore with a six speed...

Speaking of six speeds... No one makes a kit for this car... so, bought a kit made for a small block car to work with the Ford version of the T-56 Magnum. Several folks told me that it "might" not work for a big block and the GM version of the T-56 Magnum. Of course it worked... perfectly... after sectioning, redesigning, and fabricating additional pieces to make the rear trans mount work.

Fuel tank... design your own, have Rick's Tanks build it for you.

Want to hear the latest joke? I asked a guy about wheels at one of the local establishments. He asked for year, make, and model so he could check his fitment database. Sure... he has not replied back yet. It has been a few months now... should I call him back?

I can't imagine what it would be like to have something like an AMC, a Hudson, or something really oddball or rare. Mopars are hard enough to find parts for, at least some folks out there are trying. Some parts like bumpers, trim parts, tail lights and stuff are at least made now where 10 years ago they were not.

That about sums up one day at my shop.

[brawls43]

How did this project turn out? Any more updates?