odd-ball efi idea

[gen3bu]

i remember reading an article a few years ago about an engine that turbo city built. i think it was a 383 sbc, small cam (200-220 duration @ .050), headers and a dual carb intake with 2 gm 220 throttle bodies(87-95 gm truck). both tbi's were for a 350 cid stock motor. they burnt a number of chips on the engine dyno to lean it out and it ended up making @ 410 hp @ 5500 and 450 tq from 2000-4500, if memory serves me correctly.

i want to build an engine similar to this for my daily driven 1993 sonoma, and add a nos plate under each adapter plate (100-150 hp each).

has anyone else seen this article? i cant remember what mag it was. i have done searches on aol, a few mags and looked around on turbocity.com.

if you have any info and/or a dual carb sbc manifold to sell please reply.



thanks
kevin

[KacyZ28]

ive always wanted to see a tpi in a truck they make great low end torque for haulin and stump pullin

[gen3bu]

i just sold my tpi setup. i needed a diff a/c bracket, fuel pump, lines, etc,etc...
yes the tpi makes great low wnd but it is limited above 4500rpm with more than 350 cid. what i am talking about is tbi x 2 = tpi tq and carb hp - i hope.

[Kenova]

I've seen a similar setup on a tunnel ram. Everything he used for the install came from Turbo City. I think it was mostly harness and prom chip.
Ken

[Lowend]

The tunnel ram does make a nice fuel injection manifold, BUT not with a TBI style setup.
TBI throttle bodies have in the injectors inside of them which will expose the same problem all Tunnel Rams have... fuel puddling on the walls.

You need to run a conventional downdraft style TB and plumb the injectors into bungs near the intake port.

[Zefhix]

*psssttt*
we're running a dual quad TBI setup on our full-roller 468BBC with the edelbrock low-rise 4x2 manifold. I think it's cool as hell...I'll tell you what, if any, problems we run into.
*but don't tell anyone*

[gen3bu]

got pics?

[Zefhix]

got pics?

shortly. It's in SoCal getting finished and Andy (posts here as Fuelie Fan) is doing the ECM.

The motor will be here this weekend and then I should be getting the whole setup back shortly after

[Fuelie Fan]

we just prototyped the dual quad TB setup on a big block and made just shy of 500hp. And, our billet adapters make it look really sweet. It'll be on a new TV show this fall or winter, about the same time Keith is showing his setup at SEMA. I'll see if I can get pics

[Zefhix]

we just prototyped the dual quad TB setup on a big block and made just shy of 500hp. And, our billet adapters make it look really sweet. It'll be on a new TV show this fall or winter, about the same time Keith is showing his setup at SEMA. I'll see if I can get pics

Nice Andy...Ken was telling me about that! I want pics for my website as well with a web link.... Ooops, I said you posted as Injection Logic...fixed that! I hope you guys are still banking on my car for advertisting as we plan on making some noise with it! With our custom grind full roller setup I hope to be in the neighborhood of 600HP

[gen3bu]

my plans are dual 454 tbi's with tbi to 4 bbl adapters, and dual 4 bbl nitrous plates on a 383. either a cross ram intake or the offenhuaser low rise dual quad intake. motor should make 400-430 hp, and then add 100-300 worth of juice. should be good for a daily driver pick up truck!!!

still looking for an intake. talked to turbo city on the phone last night and he said my cam is way too big for a tbi motor even if it is a 383. they did use the offy dual quad low rise and 2 350 tbi's. he think the article was in super chevy @ 4 years ago.

any subscribers with back issues laying around?

thanks
kevin

[Fuelie Fan]

Without nitrous, I would agree with them that you would want the the small block throttle bodies. the 300 shot changes things though! Just realize that around town you may have slightly non-linear throttle response (hard to modulate 1300 cfm), which depending on your tastes can be annoying or fun as heck.

As for the cam comment...technically if a carb can handle it, so can tbi, becuase they're delivering fuel in a very similar manner. They just don't want to have to try and do the tech support and/or calibrate it remotely, becuase large cams can take a lot of time to get right with efi.

Edelbrock makes small block dual quad intakes.

Overall, what you are describing is certainly doable, but just different enough that you should have someone on your side that is above average with EFI (maybe you meet that requirement yourself?) to get it dialed in. I wouldn't try to mail-order it.

[gen3bu]

i am just trying to find more info on the whole setup. someone esle did it apparently not to its full potential though. i was told that they made it idle and tuned it for wot. i think it had more left in it had they looked for it. the truck runs pretty good with my custom roller cam(220/231 @ .050, .542/.542, 114lca) i agree it is big for a speed density efi system but in @ 30 minutes i had it idling smoothly at 750 rpm(with solid motor mounts) and pulling @ 14-15 in hg, on a stock prom it pulled 8-9 in hg. it went from running 14.3@95 1/4 mile et's to 13.70@101, and it went from 15 mpg to 21+.

i think there is a lot more left in my combo but i want more. isn't that how it always goes though, hahahahahahaha.
kevin

[Fuelie Fan]

that cam doesn't sound too extreme to me in a 383, especially with the wide lobes. sounds like you've already made impressive gains. What is on it currently? TBI?

[gen3bu]

355, 9.8:1, 'k' motor heads (port/polish by me), 2.02/1.60 valves, hyd roller, rev kit, performed 4 barrel with egr, sniper nos kit, custom 1.25" thick tbi to holley adapter, single 1995 454 tbi and injectors.
ran 12.9@106 with a 100 shot on dot tires

does anyone know if a cross ram will fit under a stock s-10 hood?

[Fuelie Fan]

oh so we're talking about two completely different engines? I got confused.

Keith, when will your car be ready to run? You may have to get Ken to tune it, I'm getting shipped out to China for 1-2 months (un)fortunately. Should be fun, but I'm also going to miss out on a lot stuff (like your car) that I wanted to get taken care of.

[BBPanel]

Dual TBI is not a new idea of course. I have dual Holley tbi's from a Tunnel Ram setup that I have mounted to an Offy BBC 2x4 manifold. I got a separate inj driver board from one of the guys on thirdgen.org so I can run an OEM ECU. The first guy I saw do this was the DragginWagon (http://www.geocities.com/dulmoon/Dra...gonMotorsports) - this site seems to be under construction - somewhere I have more details about his build. He is also running an OEM ECU (at least he was before the NOS) - my cam is a CC hyd roller 212/[email protected], 114 LSA, 0.511 lift - just happened to be the exact same cam Dulmoon is running. I may have a pic of the indution setup if you'd like to see it. I plan on putting this engine in a 56 Chevy Panel - just a cruiser with a little sex appeal from the multiple carb manifold - most may not even realize they are tbi's. -Bob

[BBPanel]

This is the Holley Pro-Jection Wiring Harness "Y" Adapter I used to connect the tbi's together:
http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLine/Products/FMS/FMSFIA/534-21.html

[BBPanel]

Here are the comments DulMoon postes about his 91 Caprice Wagon
- I don't think he'll mind since they were on a public board and his
webpage at one time:

" Car: 91 Caprice Wagon (original 305/700r TBI car)

No ETs or Dyno results yet, but coming within the month hopefully.

Car as it stands now has all the creature comforts functioning (i.e.
A/C, PB, PS. Cruise control worked perfectly until recently when I
swapped out the 700R for a beefy TH400. Anti-lock brakes worked
perfect to till I added the huge offset 20's and gear/tranny
change).
The car is driven regularly and gets averages roughly 16-18 mpg
overall. Emissions are no problem either. I have never had cats
and I have always passed nicely.

Engine: GenIV 454 .030 over, Speed Pro mini dome forged pistons,
Chromoly rings, Comp Cams retrofit Hydraulic roller (212/218
duration at .050, .510/.510 lift and a 114 centerline), Comp Cams
roller rockers (1.7s), GM 113cc semi-closed chamber heads with
peanut port intake ports (2.06/1.72 stock valves), GM 3/8ths rods
that have been shotpeened and beam polished for durability. Long
block yields approximately 9.5 compression and 19 inches of vacuum
at the map sensor.

Induction: Offenhauser 2x4 low profile open plenum alum intake,
Dual 350 truck throttle bodies (Blueprinted and match ported, 4.3
injectors, 500cfm each), Dual Stage5 Top Gun Nitrous plates (100-
300hp). Both TBs have functional idle screws and IAC solenoids.
Rear TB is the brain of the pair housing the Map sensor vacuum port
and the TPS sensor.

Ignition: GM Delco '89 454 distributor, MSD coil, MSD 6AL, MSD RPM
activated switch with micro shift lite, MSD cap and rotor, Taylor
spiral core wires, Autolite Nitrous spark plugs.

Electrical wiring/sensors: Factory 91 Caprice wiring harness.
ECM was replaced with a 7747 ECM with Turbo City chip. Only
sensors needed for this ECM are the Map, TPS, Thermostatic
switch and O2 sensor; all of which are the stock 91 caprice
sensors. I have changed them to the 89 454 sensors and no
difference was noticed. I used an inexpensive "splice" kit that
Turbo City offers for the inline IACs.
However, the IACs are not necessary. I have run with the
holes plugged. Very little difference. The TBIs react as Carbs
instead of Injection. "

[Zefhix]

oh so we're talking about two completely different engines? I got confused.

Keith, when will your car be ready to run? You may have to get Ken to tune it, I'm getting shipped out to China for 1-2 months (un)fortunately. Should be fun, but I'm also going to miss out on a lot stuff (like your car) that I wanted to get taken care of.

The car needs to be running with a "limp on trailer" tune from you for the custom stereo/uphoustry shop which is located in Northern Cali and then we were going to drive down to you for the dyno tune around the 2nd week in Sept. Is the setup done? Can I get it from Ken yet? Do you trust him to tune as well as you? When are you being shipped out and what can we do before you go? Just email me back or call me as time is running out anyway. Thanks!