Fuel or igniton problem with Accel Gen 7

[Jim Nilsen]

I have been having problems since about 4 weeks ago. I have had starting problems and high rpm issues above 5,000 rpm.

I have had no problems for over 8,000 miles so I know it is not how my system is setup or configured, it has to be a component problem. I am not interested in any debate about how it is setup I have been down that road and the discussions will not help. If you need to know how it is setup that is expected, most everyone here can go through my threads to see how many problems I have been through and how it is configured.

Now for the meat and potatoes of the problem.

I have cleaned my 100 micron filter and replaced my 10 micron filter and there was debris from one of my pieces of fuel cell foam, it is plastic and not the regular soft foam. I had to add it a while back to hold my sump tube in place. The 100 micron filter had about 5-10% of it filled in the bottom of it and the 10micron filter after the pump had a bunch a black filmy crud on it. There had to be some of it go thru the pump but nothing big showed up in the 10 micron filter.

After cleaning and replacing the filters the fuel pressure warning light that would come on with my Racepak finally stopped momentarily flickering even though the pressure ready would only drop one psi. After 80 miles of driving it started to flicker again and maybe a bit more and the pressure would drop 2-3 psi. So I decided to go to the fuel cell and pull out the foam and see what was in the tank that I couldn't possibly see before. I found nothing in the tank other than some small pieces of the foam and decided to check the only rubber hose in my whole system. It looked good with no signs of deterior ation but I decided to replace it with teflon hose and when I cut the rubber hose off I found a block of rubber from part of the seal grommet for my vent that was blocking 60% of the hole. I really thought that would have been the whole problem but when I took it back out to do a datalog it was actually worse. The fuel pressure warning came on a bit more and the fuel pressure reading was dropping a bit more and then going up to 48 or 47 psi which it doesn't normally do. So is it a fuel pump issue?, I am having trouble deciding? A bypass regulator problem?

I have also had a problem with the rotor on my distributor being loose because the shaft is more than likely too small in diameter new.I have fixed it so it doesn't move anymore but at 5,000 rpm who knows? I have a small line that appeared on the terminals that maybe indicate that it is coming in contact with the terminals on the cap? I filed it back just a bit to remove the sheared edge that lined up with the marks on the cap. I only removed .010 to start with and may go more when I get done with this. If it changes anything I will let you all know here.

I can tell you that when everyone at the autocross heard the car run they thought I was hitting the rev limiter but I was at least 1k to 1.5 k from the limiter. My rev limit is 6850 and I was only hitting 5200 at the most. On my last run at the autox it seamed to go higher but I was too busy fighting the wheel because I had no PS. Ya know that no ps will make you turn the wheel a lot less and make you a smother driver!LOL.

So if anyone can tell me from experience that it is my fuel pump,bypass regultor or anything for sure in my igniton I would greatly appreciate the input.

Right now the car still runs and I can make the Heidt's event and still have fun. I don't want to take it all apart if I don't have to and not make the event.

Thanks for listening,Jim

[EFI69Cam]

Just a thought, but black crud in the filter makes me think that something is dissolving in the fuel. I had an early SX pump that was epoxied on the motor windings. The epoxy was dissolved by alcohol or MTBE. SX rebuilt the pump for me and I had no problems after that.

[Jim Nilsen]

Just a thought, but black crud in the filter makes me think that something is dissolving in the fuel. I had an early SX pump that was epoxied on the motor windings. The epoxy was dissolved by alcohol or MTBE. SX rebuilt the pump for me and I had no problems after that.

Thanks for the info Jody, That is one of the things I had talked about with another friend, When rubber,plastic or other compounds break down they lose the voc's which are the liquid part of the rubber or plastic that hold it all together and then the solids break apart into chunks and crumby pieces. With the EPA constantly changing the fuels I have the thought that when they went to the summer formula the new chemical additives started to break down the plastic very large open cell foam, I have seen no problem with the original foam which is completely different and looks more like the foam pads for buffing. It appeared to me from my experience with chemicals and pumps that the 100 micron filter caught the chunks and bigger particles and the 10 micron filter caught most of the chemical debris. This also leads to whether the injectors caught some of it or did it pass all the way through? I have had the inclination to run some injector cleaner but I have the reservation as to what it will do? I would hate to have the problem get worse by adding more chemicals. From what you are saying it could just be the pump itself that is also breaking down internally and the combination of both would be even worse.

When I look at my data logs you can see the fuel and timing looking like a serated edge jumping all over very quickly and when you look at old datalogs it is all smooth lines. It leads me to believe that the fuel is the problem and the ecu is correcting it with the timing and not the other way around. It also makes the most sense that it is the pressure from the pump that is not consistant and pulsing which would account for the datalog being like the edge of aluminum foil where it is cut along with it not having full pressure capability.

It still sounds more like a rev limiter when it happens making one believe it might be the ignition but it is the timing that adjust to the fuel and not the other way around right?



I have removed the large open cell foam to make sure it can't be the problem in the future. If I had the time I would pull the fuel rails and the injectors and inspect them ut I just don't see me being able to do that and make the event.

One other note is that I am running BP fuel. In my brothers Ford F250 he found that he had to start adding actane booster to even get his truck to run right with BP premium about the same time I started to have symptoms,then it all went to downhill but slower,lol.

Thanks again and if you have any other thoughts keep them coming.

[Jim Nilsen]

I just got my electricity back last night due to a blown transformer sinc e Monday morning. I hadn't worked on a car in the dark with a flashlight for years and found it something I don't miss. I have been doing what I can to get things done and have come up with a few things that could be the problem?

I am replacing the fuel pump this morning to see if it is the problem, if it isn't then I have a spare pump which is always good to have on hand anyway.
It has been discussed with a few that it may be my valve springs getting weak but I don't have a spring checker to test it on the car and am wondering if anyone going to the Heidt's event has one and could bring it so I could check them? It takes 10 minutes to pull the valve covers so it isn't a big job.

It could also be that some debri has gotten passed the filters to the injectors and the screens on top are possibly restricted a bit? I will have to wait to do that check when I get back home from the event.

The distributor and possibly the coil might be part of it but it doesn't show any signs before 4,700 that it is a problem but it could be ?

So I am going out and getting the new pump in and see where it gets me.

I have talked to several people who have had the fuel pumps go bad from fuel and the windings or the magnet have been damaged because of it, so with any luck the problem will go away today.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed !

[Blown73]

Hi Jim -

Reading through here, it seems to me that you are on the right track for a fuel problem. The ECU would only react to the fuel pressure fluctuation, so it wouldn't be my first spot to look either. It could be dropping the spark if there is no fuel, making it sound like a rev limiter. I had this issue on my car when I first started running it hard. It was a carb'd motor, but I was losing fuel pressure through a 1/2" line all the way up from tank to carb. I swapped out to the A1000 pump and put a larger line in JIC. The pump was the problem. I spin my motor to 7k without issue now.

However, I would definitely flush your lines out. The 10 & 100 micron filters probably got most of the chunks out, but it really wouldn't hurt your cause to flush the line up to the fuel rail. You could do this with an air hose and just let it have it.

Good luck!

[Jim Nilsen]

Hi Jim -

Reading through here, it seems to me that you are on the right track for a fuel problem. The ECU would only react to the fuel pressure fluctuation, so it wouldn't be my first spot to look either. It could be dropping the spark if there is no fuel, making it sound like a rev limiter. I had this issue on my car when I first started running it hard. It was a carb'd motor, but I was losing fuel pressure through a 1/2" line all the way up from tank to carb. I swapped out to the A1000 pump and put a larger line in JIC. The pump was the problem. I spin my motor to 7k without issue now.

However, I would definitely flush your lines out. The 10 & 100 micron filters probably got most of the chunks out, but it really wouldn't hurt your cause to flush the line up to the fuel rail. You could do this with an air hose and just let it have it.

Good luck!

Talking with a guy at the Hotrod shop who has been using efi for 8 years said to flush out my lines also. Sucking the junk off the top of the injector was also the preferred way also after looking at them under a magnifying glass 1st.

Thanks for the info to concur the track I am on for the problem.

Now off to the track to have all the fun a guy can have with his clothes on and a fuel problem!!

[Jim Nilsen]

Emergency, what emergency LOL. After the weekend of beating on the Cormaro with the high rpm miss and still getting an 18th place I think it is safe to say it was not the emergency I thought it was.

After talking to a bunch of people and finding the miss going up in rpm for a few laps it seems that the problem is injector screens with crap on them and probably some debri left in the fuel lines from the damn fuel cell foam. If I knew before what I know now the rpm I could have had would have made more fun and better times, but it was awesome and I couldn't be happier.

This thread can now be move to the EFI section and I will keep everyone up to date as to how it goes for future reference.

Thanks to all of you who looked and special thanks to those who replied, It made a difference as to my worries and woes about going to the Heidt's event with a car running like it did. my engine builder Jeff Jasieks built one heck of a long block that is holding up to the punishment of the problems I am having and giving the durability that cars like these need.

Jim Nilsen