Cost effective 1st gen front suspension

[another69]

I'm looking for advice on upgrading my 1st gen front suspension. I currently have basically stock upper and lower arms with poly bushings, 350# QA1 "coilover" conversion, DSE front swaybar, and the front end is pretty low- less than an inch from the bumpstops. I have 3 deg caster (pos) and 5/8 deg camber (neg). The rear is hotchkiss drop leaves. I also run a rear mount rack for steering.

I've run it this way for a few years, and at high speeds its great, but not very nimble at lower speeds or tight turns. The front tires show wear on the outer edge, so maybe I need more camber. Here are my plans:

1) get rid of the poly in favor of delrin bushings
2) DSE upper arms to allow more camber
3) 450# front springs
4) less caster
5) guldstrand mod?
I'd love taller ball joints, but I want to keep current brakes

[ProdigyCustoms]

Your plan sounds good. If you use the Speedtech upper arms we can show you how to re drill and lower the pivot point of the control arm shaft without going though all the trouble of cutting the control arm bracket off. I would much rather lower the pivot point over using a tall ball joint.

[68Formula]

I'm a little confused why you would want less caster.

You might not need much more negative camber if you do the G-mod (or similar movement of the pivot point).

You didn't mention your toe settings. They could be wrong or you could have a bumpsteer issue affecting your low speed (having the wrong camber curve doesn't help either).

[Nessumsar]

A good resource:
http://www.pozziracing.com/

On my Nova (same suspension) I was running -1.0 camber, 4.5/5 caster, 1/8" toe in. It worked pretty well, although I would have liked to add in some more initial camber for the faster autocrosses.

[another69]

Frank- I'd much rather redrill the upper arm mount as well, as far as I can tell, it seems like what the guldstrand mod is, right? Do you have your own version of it? I'm leaning toward the DSE arms because I want to use the delrin instead of poly bushings, and I've always been really happy with the quality of the DSE stuff. I've never used speedtech, so I can't really comment, but they seem to use a variation of poly. Am I wrong?

I want less caster (I think) because it increases steering effort, and makes the car feel heavy. I'm running a unisteer power rack with about 1/8" total toe. I'm pretty much maxed out with initial camber unless I use longer studs- BTW are longer uca studs even available with the splines??

Jon- how does your setup feel? I know mine feels much better than stock, but there is alot of room for improvement.

How would my dollars best be spent? I don't mind keeping the stock upper and lower arms ( with better bushings) if newer ones won't perform better. I know many of you have tuned these 1ft gen suspensions and probably know what works and what doesn't.

[killer69]

[QUOTE=another69;765132]Frank- I'd much rather redrill the upper arm mount as well, as far as I can tell, it seems like what the guldstrand mod is, right? Do you have your own version of it? I'm leaning toward the DSE arms because I want to use the delrin instead of poly bushings, and I've always been really happy with the quality of the DSE stuff. I've never used speedtech, so I can't really comment, but they seem to use a variation of poly. Am I wrong?

I want less caster (I think) because it increases steering effort, and makes the car feel heavy. I'm running a unisteer power rack with about 1/8" total toe. I'm pretty much maxed out with initial camber unless I use longer studs- BTW are longer uca studs even available with the splines??

the Speedtech arms use Delrin As a bushing material,

less caster will REDUCE the steering effort Slightly 4.5-5.5 positive caster would be considered normal in this case. 1/8 negative toe should be fine
you can always change out the studs and use 1/2 NF bolts, just means you need to have a wwrench on the other side when tightening them.

[37OLDS]

more caster = more stability
less caster = more nimble
not enough caster= twitchy / unstable

Is this correct

Can you have to much caster? would this mean wont turn well? maybee understeer?

[LS1NOVA]

Im very happy with my SC&C stage 2 plus kit, it looks like it would be an option for you too.

[DButler]

I took a look at the SC&C site and their parts seem to be priced fairly well. That may be the way to go, I may possibly go that route myself. Are their products good?

[Mkelcy]

Take a look at this thread: https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...ponents-to-buy It's long, but reviews most of the suspension options, with estimated prices.

[JRouche]

All great info. I wouldnt remove anymore caster. That nice high speed feel you get is in part due to decent caster. As for the tire wear as an indicator. A lil more camber might help to level the tire out in a turn. But whats funny, it will also ADD the the "slow" slugish steering in the heavy low speed turns. Why? Cause you will have more tire on the ground. But more tire on the ground really is the objective.

So then how to lighten the front up some for steering input. I wouldnt mess with the toe settings. Again, high speed stability. You want that. But a thought that hasent been considered is the tire pressures. They really can make a dramatic change on how the steering feels.

I would do what you can to increase the tire patch then really think about bumping up the tire pressure. What tire pressure are you using and how did you come to that number? I usually pressure my tires up to a standard 35psi. Then drive the car for a 100 miles and see how it feels and see if any odd wear patterns develop. 100 miles isnt enough to see on an old tire. Easier with a new tire.

If the car feels steady on the freeway (not too light) I will increase the pressure to 40psi. Do another 100 or so miles and check the wear pattern. Might not be able to any wear at all. Its hard to read these long life tires sometimes. So Ill just go off of how the car feels. Five extra psi will really lighten the front up quite a bit. Sometimes thats too much and it feels like you are rolling on a ball. Then its time to back some psi off. But sometimes with a heavier car 5psi is ok, or even more psi is needed.

And it will get a lil light on the freeway with a hard tire, specially with the grooves in the road. Thats where some heavy caster helps, and maybe some toe adjustments.

I like to go with extremes of tire pressure adjustments so I can actually feel the change. Then dial back on it to get it under control and keep the center of the tire from eating itself up. But I rarely see that with my tires. After some increase of pressure I get a flatter wear pattern and still some rounding off of the outside corner, thats due to hard turns. And its an even rounding of the edge, not any feathering, cupping or ripping of the edge. Its just a uniform wear. Which is to be expected if you are driving fast.

But anyway. Maybe think about bumping up the tire pressure some. You might be surprised to see some added lightness in the turns. Kinda odd but thats something I dont see talked about much here. Where it is a MAJOR factor with some folks, prolly mostly folks that race. JR