Original Steering Box

[San Diego Camaro]

Hello All - This is my first post for my new Camaro. I bought a '68 last weekend and among other things am thinking of the options for improving the steering response. It has an original (I think) steering box in it and everything associated with the steering seems original too. I know I can adjust this one to make it a little tighter. But what have you guys done ahead of me to improve the responsiveness? Is a new steering box an option or do you have to go with rack and pinion? Brands?



I'm really just interested in a really great street car. No racing or autoxing in my future with this car.

Thanks,
Paul

[77thor]

AGR makes a good box. Pricey ones include Lee and CPP...
(My future plans include an AGR 12:1 box.)

[ArtosDracon]

There is a nut and an internal hex screw on the top of the box that all you to adjust endplay in the gear. Do this carefully and 1/8 to 1/4 turn at a time and check it. If you go so much as a half turn with no difference at all, then back it off a quarter turn and live with it until you can get a new box. Over tightening this screw will put a side load on the input shaft. If the issue is not in the end-play, then it is most likely in the input shaft and putting a side load on it is going to make it worse. I'm not sure which box the camaro's have, but if it's an 800, you can adjust the input shaft as well. Can anyone chime in on the box type? If it's an 800 I can post how to adjust the input as well. The end-play adjustment is universal to almost all saginaw boxes ever made.

[San Diego Camaro]

Thanks guys!
Fred- Do you know how much play is in the AGR (or other) steering boxes? I'm trying to decided if it is better to just step up to a rack and pinion.
Robert- I already adjusted the hex screw and it seemed to have a need to turn in a lot more than I'd like. I suspect the box is just worn out after 42 years of use. Like you suggest, I'll nurse this one along until I decide on the solution to this problem.
Paul

[JustinB]

I have put a few off the CPP boxes in first gens over the month and everyone has been happy with them. All in all I think they are a pretty good deal at $350.

[Ishmael]

That seems like a real good deal. What is the CPP box based on?

[San Diego Camaro]

I have put a few off the CPP boxes in first gens over the month and everyone has been happy with them. All in all I think they are a pretty good deal at $350.

Justin,
Thanks for that feedback! It is very helpful. When you say "I have put a few of the CPP boxes in" for "$350", does that include the installation???

Paul

[77thor]

... Do you know how much play is in the AGR (or other) steering boxes? I'm trying to decided if it is better to just step up to a rack and pinion.
...

No, not from personal experience. They're supposed to be tight with little play.
Newer boxes have better valving for that rack-and-pinion type feel.

Be careful if you decide to go with a rack and pinion conversion... I have heard some horror stories on that subject.

[ArtosDracon]

Doing a proper rack and pinoin steering system on a car that wasn't build for one is a lot of work. A rack and pinion steering system will generally have much shorter steering arms so that not as much travel is required in the rack, and more often than not they're over-boosted so you loose a fair amount of feel. The short steering arms with the low over-all movement means that they don't need as high of a ratio in the gear as you would with the length of arms typical to box type cars. Getting a rack to do 3"+ to each side and quickly, they usually stuff them with about a 10:1 ratio. That combined with the boost will not give the type of feel that a lot of guys like on the road. It is very capable of the point-and-shoot style of driving, but not very good for intuitive, feel of the car driving.

[San Diego Camaro]

Doing a proper rack and pinoin steering system on a car that wasn't build for one is a lot of work. A rack and pinion steering system will generally have much shorter steering arms so that not as much travel is required in the rack, and more often than not they're over-boosted so you loose a fair amount of feel. The short steering arms with the low over-all movement means that they don't need as high of a ratio in the gear as you would with the length of arms typical to box type cars. Getting a rack to do 3"+ to each side and quickly, they usually stuff them with about a 10:1 ratio. That combined with the boost will not give the type of feel that a lot of guys like on the road. It is very capable of the point-and-shoot style of driving, but not very good for intuitive, feel of the car driving.

Excellent point Robert. I guess I'll stick to the (new) steering box and call it a day.
Paul

[1bad68cat]

Is a 3rd gen f-body box (specifically the IROC box) still a feasible/good idea? I'm on a lean budget?

[ArtosDracon]

IF you can still find one, yeah, they're a good box. Just double check that the stops are pretty close, and make sure if you get it from a yard that it's an F-body box, some yards interchange S10, g-body and late montecarlo boxes, it gets pretty anoying.

[firebob]

Paul, Do an internet search for different kinds of boxes that you can swap in. It took me all day to find the info I was looking for but it's there. I didn't save it or write it down. Sorry. Most of the Sag boxes will mount up. The differences are almost all internal. The later Fbody boxes are good but are becoming scarce. Besides they are a PITA to get out of the car. They are buried up under the front bumper. And even tose cars came with different applications so they are not all the same. They are metric so you will need new lines or adapters for the fittings. Also the rag joint is different so you'll need a different one of those too. If you've got more time than money a trip to the local wrecking yard will be worth you're while. I swapped in a 98 Grand Cherokee box into my 69 Firebird and love it. I think I was in and out of the wrecking yard in about an hour and a half with almost everything I needed. It was easy to get to. Turning radius is nearly identical to stock and the road feel is excellant.

Robert

[ArtosDracon]

Two Roberts giving good advice, too much fun.

The 90's grang cherokees are a great place to find parts, mostly because no one knows there there. The boxes will almost all be 16:1 standard boxes with stops almost identical to the monte boxes. Best part is they have very till if any wear usually. Input spline on everything of this era is 3/4-30, including the GC, montes, f-bodies and S10s, but the GCs ditched the rag joint all together, so if you can snag the steering shaft at the same time, it'll be easier to adapt to your early model steering shaft and allow you to eliminate the rag joint at the same time.