Manual or Power LS1 Disc Brakes?

[Coursey]

I am installing the LS1 disc brakes on all 4 corners.

I have a 1966 Nova.

I am trying to decide between a manual or power setup.

I was wondering what you all were using and how you like it.

This is mostly a street drivin car that i would one day like to autocross as well.

Also which master or master/booster is best?

[19,69camaro]

Im looking at doing the same thing hopefully someone will chime in. Are manual brakes that much more responsive as far as feel goes?

[Northeast Rod Run]

I asked a similar question a while back over on Lat-G and I got a lot of good feedback on manual brakes. My engine doesn't pull much vacuum, even with a canister, and I also don't like the looks of all the "extra stuff" that goes with my current power brake set-up.

when I hopefully upgrade my set-up in the spring I will definitely be going to manual brakes. They gave me so much info on there that my head was spinning when they were done with me

[Coursey]

I asked a similar question a while back over on Lat-G and I got a lot of good feedback on manual brakes. My engine doesn't pull much vacuum, even with a canister, and I also don't like the looks of all the "extra stuff" that goes with my current power brake set-up.

when I hopefully upgrade my set-up in the spring I will definitely be going to manual brakes. They gave me so much info on there that my head was spinning when they were done with me

do you have a link to that thread?

[19,69camaro]

Heres a link to the lateral-g thread or one of them http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/show...t=power+brakes

[hifi875]

i am running them on my 69 camaro. running a 1" wilwood m/c w/ prop valve. they have a firm pedal but stop pretty well. i think i should of run a 7/8 m/c instead. for the money they are hard to beat, just make sure you have all the parts if you are buying a take off system

[rfalker1]

I have manual, heard that the only negative is the force required to stop them time after can cause your leg to get pretty tired, so good will hunting. P.S I never like the look of a brake booster in my engine compartment

[BOBBYA312]

Need to make sure you match mas cyl bore to calipers for best stopping power w/o killing your leg

[67CamNKC]

I brought this thread back up from a few months ago......Will going to a 7/8" MC help with the pedal over the 1"? I have LS1 brakes on all 4 corners on my build.

[Nicks67GTO]

I was told that running the LS1 brakes wouldnt work well with manual brakes. Are there a lot of you running them manually? What about with a 7/8" Wilwood master?

[69keith]

use a 98 camaro booster and master cylinder and be done, hiting a car in the a$$ is not worth ur ride

[Gitter Dun]

use a 98 camaro booster and master cylinder and be done, hiting a car in the a$$ is not worth ur ride

Just wanted to confirm, aren't '93-2002 boosters and m/c's compatible?

[69projectKAOS]

Just wanted to confirm, aren't '93-2002 boosters and m/c's compatible?

++1 ^^ interested as well, im running ls1 fronts and wanting to go to power.

[a67]

I was told that running the LS1 brakes wouldnt work well with manual brakes. Are there a lot of you running them manually? What about with a 7/8" Wilwood master?

The 7/8" M/C is recommended with manual LS1 brakes. It properly matches the caliper piston area for the proper pressure.

The other half of successful manual disc brakes is the proper pad compound. Need ones with a decent coefficient of friction. The Carbotech AX6, Wilwood BP20, EBC Blue or Green stuff all have a higher then normal-street-pad frictions.

At a minimum use a FF rated pad. Such as GOOD semi-metallic store bought pad (NAPA, Car-Quest). As such the car here has PBR FF on the rear, and Stoptech FF on the fronts (StopTech Street Performance brake pads - front (D749) [63-309-0749]).

Haven't driven it yet, but will be this Spring/Summer.

Previously it had a 1" bore M/C (7/8" now) with no-name pads on the front and the PBRs on the rear. Took both feet on the pedal to even think about hauling it down. Scary doesn't even begin to describe how it was.

Bob.

[Pete68]

Power brakes are best, you said it yourself, its a street car first and foremost, 2011 Corvette has power brakes, how can you get better feel than that car? I'd rather not have to use both feet to stop the car when Im racing...

[chicane67]

I'm lost... reading this thread. LS1 brakes ? There is no such thing...

However, refering to OEM PBR floating calipers on a specific model year, would make this easier to digest.

Now to the meat of the subject. Personally, I myself only run manul brakes for multiple reasons. But to hear someone say that the power brakes of a production car couldnt be any better... tells me that they obviously have very little experience in the true art of braking. Then the use of the two feet comment, come on now Pete... there is much more to that equation then what you have scantly described. Mostly related to likely component missmatching of the system you are reffering to in your comment.

Reto fitting late model brakes into an early model chassis... has many variables, that will effect the systems performance. Nothing more importantly than a specific systems pressure to volume ratio that it was designed for. What that means in a lay mans term is, the proper line sizing, caliper volumes and master cylinder selection. Just taking a late model OEM PBR type caliper and bolting it onto an early model chassis with a 7/8ths master... is still a bandaid system. The specific pressure to volume ratios, associated to the specific equipment, havent even been addressed. That is where a lot of people get 'lost.' Yes it is somewhat close... but, it could be much, much better.

Honestly, a properly designed manual ABS system is about as good as it can get. If not, a straight up manual system, designed correctly, is in a very close second.

To answer Courseys specifics... I myself would run a manual set up, with 3/16" line for the front and rear systems and a 7/8" master. Utilizing these components will keep you much closer to the optimal pressure to volume ratios in which the system was designed to run with. This will also reduce the need for having to add additional proportioning beyond what should be required, without purchasing more components to make it work correctly. The secret to having an excellent brak system... is... to keep it simple, and do the 'math.'

I ran an OEM iron four piston front on my 64 II with a 15/16" master only because I was still running the 1/4" line to the rear... but it worked pretty damn good with a set of Porterfield R-4S pads on it. I mean... it worked good enough to surprise many a 911 and many a M3 in the canyons of San Diego... and in the Murph on cone killing day.

I will recommend to read the following: Linky

This will give you some more to sponge in your quest of doing it right.

[Pete68]

Thanks Chicane67. You mention manual brakes are good for multiple reasons. Can you explain a bit more? what are the reasons?

I see all sports cars with power brakes, Corvette, Porsche, Ferrari, etc. and I'm wondering why they use power? Is it strictly that it's "easier" or more user friendly? I can see why manual would be good for an all-out race car because it would most likely give you better pedal feel at the expense of pedal effort. But for a "mostly street driven car" that Coursey is describing wouldn't power brakes be much more enjoyable on a daily basis?

If manual brakes were THAT MUCH better wouldn't sports car manufacturers be using them on production cars? Cars like the GT3? GT3 RS?

[Coursey]

I went with a power setup.

It works great. The car will stop on a dime now, and stays in a straight line while breaking, instead of heading for the ditch.

[chicane67]

A couple of the more logical reasons...

Shear simplicity.
Cost effectiveness.
There are way less parts envolved (reduced complexity.)
Modulation.
Pedal feel.
Weight.
They don't care about operational issues due to engine effects (vacuum, power steering, engine running, etc.)
Safety (see above statement.)

Sure you see sports cars with power brakes. It's a creature comfort at best. It's also a great band-aid for a total lack of skill or finesse... and giving up your man card. However, head out to the race tracks... and you will find that even the exotic sports cars have ditched the power and have either gone to manual ABS or have gone to a three master set-up.

Reality... it all comes down to personal preference. I enjoy manual brakes on a daily basis and don't think any thing of it. Power brakes don't make and wont make it any more enjoyable to drive on a daily basis. But for some of us... it's a ten/tenths thing.

[Vegas69]

If you want daily driver pedal feel, don't go with manual brakes. When I say feel, I mean lay your foot on the brake and stop.

The beauty of manual brakes is FEEL. Power brakes tend to be touchy and you could easily induce brake lock up racing. Not a problem with factory cars and ABS.

These cars are fairly raw no matter what you do to them. You can feel everything. I like manual brakes in this application. Power brakes are numb in comparison.