Ebay Aluminum Radiator??

[CreepinDeth]

Justin, PM Sent.

Interested in a Champion radiator for my 1970 442's LSX swap.

+1
I like to buy American when I can as well, however, if Champion radiators are comparable to the American brands, adequate for my needs, and HALF the price (or close to it), sorry, but as an American consumer on a budget, I have to look out for myself first.

Unfortunately I also agree.
I'm 100% all for buying American when I can and it's competitive.
However, when buying American = 2x-4x the cost for comparable value I have a hard time doing it.
Alot of chinese products are junk, yes.....but they do have higher quality components they make.
At the end of the day I have to look out for my own best interests with my wallet in the long run here.
I was VERY NEARLY considering just putting a new brass / copper radiator back in my car for awhile there.
BTW I think Spectra is your average Walmart brand replacement radiator vendor.



I am still considering an Alumitech radiator myself......it's not out of the question.
Purely because I do fully believe it's more then likely a better quality product.
I think the one's I'm pricing out are ~$500 for my 1970 442. IF it was $400 it would be easier to swallow......
I priced out Griffin......too much $$$, I priced out Ron Davis.....OMFG too much $$$
So Alumitech wins via the comparable competitors and positive reviews I've read.
But if they are worried about shutting their doors, where does that leave me as a buyer with warranty??

Lets face reality here......
Businesses are in business for themselves, not for the betterment of America.
Wall Street is not bound by loyalty to any country. Neither are banks. Don't kid yourselves.
Many businesses have off-shored purely to fatten their profit margins unnecessarily.
Many Americans are out of work due to corporate profit margins being the driving factor with lower taxes, lower labor costs, etc.

GM, Ford, and Chrysler have shown this countless times themselves.
NAFTA isn't our problem. If you look closely, hardly anything is made in Mexico VS China. ;)
IN fact, oil is our #1 import from Mexico and Canada these days.

The Chinese Trade Agreement since 2000 has been our biggest bloodletting of outsourcing.
Those who removed trade tariffs put US Labor at a HUUUUUUUUGE disadvantage and jobs have been leaving by the millions.
Production costs for the lowest invested cost, tariff free, is how business is done today unfortunately.
Hell GM even put a Chinese engine in the last Equinox and Torrent small SUV's......that made me gag....
All the while they beat the "Buy American" drum buy put all outsourced parts in their cars.

I've purposely bought ONLY Kobalt tools from Lowes for the past 10 years because it was competitive
and 100% American made from Danaher and prior to that it was a Snap On subdivision called Williams.

[brans72]

still waiting a pm myself.

[JustinB]

PM sent.

[Alumitech Reproductions]

People really need to stop buying these China made products based on price and think more about more about trying to keep our jobs and buying American .

there are plenty of companies that build American products for a few bucks more and keep America working .
Ron Davis Wizard cooling Alumitech Reproductions Griffin Radiator .. the list goes on if you look .


Just did a search for grins of Champion radiators on E/bay in the completed listings section not only for my benefit , but to bring to light a sad state of affairs for American business .
for every customer that installs a China made radiator under there hood .. is one less chance a American manufacture has a chance to stay in business, as there are only so many Classic American made muscle cars on the road .
so here is a synopsis of what the figures state .
now keep in mind this is a study of sales on e/bay over a 2 week period of completed sales .

we simply typed in Champion radiator to completed listings across the board of all make cars Ford Chevy Mopar .. search results 6157 .. prices starting at $99.00 ranging to $419.00

out of the 6157 listings .. I was curious how many actually sold ... lots of pages to go threw 31 to be exact at 200 results per page (325 units sold) , a big majority at $144.95 up to $189.00 . under the $200.00 mark .. keep in mind this is over approximately a 2 week

Personally I would not conceder these buyers as the higher end muscle car enthusiast , but many were Chevy and Chevelle , Camaro and classic Chevy truck folks , along with Corvette and Mopar .

If we do the math that’s aprox ( 8450 ) Champion radiators per year from china coming into America and being sold .. so where does the money end up ?

Champion Radiator is fast becoming the Walmart of radiators .

God help the American Manufacture .. if this keeps up folks like my self will be having a going out of business sign in the window .

Anybody putting a China made radiator under the hood of a Classic Americam Muscle car should be ashamed when there are radiators made in America starting at $299.00

If anybody agrees with me . feel free to post your feelings

Don

[DarkoNova]

there are plenty of companies that build American products for a few bucks more and keep America working .
Ron Davis Wizard cooling Alumitech Reproductions Griffin Radiator .. the list goes on if you look .

Anybody putting a China made radiator under the hood of a Classic Americam Muscle car should be ashamed when there are radiators made in America starting at $299.00

Uh, $100 isn't a few bucks. When you're comparing something that costs $200 to something that starts at $300, that's a 33% price difference minimum.

[SIZE="3"]I agree with you on the general concept only. I'd like to buy american.

1) to get a COMPARABLE radiator from an american firm will not run a few doillars more, its usually twice as much or more.

I agree 100%.

Sorry Don, but it's just the nature of the beast. I want to support America, but when I can get the same product for 30% less, I'm going to.

[aronhk_md]

Uh, $100 isn't a few bucks. When you're comparing something that costs $200 to something that starts at $300, that's a 33% price difference minimum.



I agree 100%.

Sorry Don, but it's just the nature of the beast. I want to support America, but when I can get the same product for 30% less, I'm going to.

Actually going from $200 to $299 is a 50% increase, not 30% ...

But the truth of the matter is that the $270 4 core HD radiator I got from champion that they call their monster series capable of supporting 1000 hp................would be more like $600+ at an american company.....which is a 100% increase.

[aronhk_md]

I agree with you on the general concept only. I'd like to buy american.

1) to get a COMPARABLE radiator from an american firm will not run a few doillars more, its usually twice as much or more.

2) a lot of american line production workers got the fat cat attitude. If they couldnt make $18-$28 an hour they screamed, their unions screamed, plants shut down due to strikes, etc. Meanwhile the chinese worker is happy to feed his family. Just so happens he does it on a lot less. This means american products couldnt compete. We got greedy. Shot ourselves in the foot. Now those production jobs dont even exist any longer even at a lower wage, and americans now WISH they had those jobs back even at lower wages.

I dont like seeing whats happened either, but MY wages indicate I either need to buy cheap, or not buy at all. I cannot afford to buy all american made stuff.

[ed1le]

I agree with you on the general concept only. I'd like to buy american.

1) to get a COMPARABLE radiator from an american firm will not run a few doillars more, its usually twice as much or more.

2) a lot of american line production workers got the fat cat attitude. If they couldnt make $18-$28 an hour they screamed, their unions screamed, plants shut down due to strikes, etc. Meanwhile the chinese worker is happy to feed his family. Just so happens he does it on a lot less. This means american products couldnt compete. We got greedy. Shot ourselves in the foot. Now those production jobs dont even exist any longer even at a lower wage, and americans now WISH they had those jobs back even at lower wages.

I dont like seeing whats happened either, but MY wages indicate I either need to buy cheap, or not buy at all. I cannot afford to buy all american made stuff.

+1
I like to buy American when I can as well, however, if Champion radiators are comparable to the American brands, adequate for my needs, and HALF the price (or close to it), sorry, but as an American consumer on a budget, I have to look out for myself first.

[Alumitech Reproductions]

These attitudes that im on a budget, so im going to buy China products cause there cheaper in price, is the the reason America is in the dilemma its in .

If you work for a American manufacture that will stand a good chance of closing there doors ,or have to shift there manufacturing to over seas to compete, due to the fact that everybody is buying Chinese products , then your part of the problem , so when you find your self with out a job as many have , you will know the reason why .

you folks have a lot of money invested in your Classic muscle cars , why not save your penny's and buy American goods and be proud of the fact that you did .. even if it were 30% to 50% more .. in the long run you will be better off .

here are a couple of examples of American made at reasonable prices .
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/JEEP-...Q5fAccessories

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1970-...Q5fAccessories

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1955-...Q5fAccessories

If you look a bit harder you can find good Americam made products at a reasonable prices .

The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of a low price is forgotten !!!

[aronhk_md]

These attitudes that im on a budget, so im going to buy China products cause there cheaper in price, is the the reason America is in the dilemma its in .

If you work for a American manufacture that will stand a good chance of closing there doors ,or have to shift there manufacturing to over seas to compete, due to the fact that everybody is buying Chinese products , then your part of the problem , so when you find your self with out a job as many have , you will know the reason why .

you folks have a lot of money invested in your Classic muscle cars , why not save your penny's and buy American goods and be proud of the fact that you did .. even if it were 30% to 50% more .. in the long run you will be better off .

here are a couple of examples of American made at reasonable prices .
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/JEEP-...Q5fAccessories

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1970-...Q5fAccessories

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1955-...Q5fAccessories

If you look a bit harder you can find good Americam made products at a reasonable prices .

The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of a low price is forgotten !!!

Why would I pay an american company 50% to 100% more for the same product.....or in the case of our automobiles over years past......a lesser product? Sorry, but many of those workers on assembly lines across america were OVERPAID for years, especially for the quality they put out. It had to break at some point.....and now it has. Dont get me wrong......I FEEL for these families without jobs, but the writing has been on the wall a LONG time. People just chose to ignore it, and some werent smart enough to realize. Why do you think for YEARS we talked about how the american auto worker couldnt match the japanese for efficiency or quality? God.........how many years did we need to get it through our heads?

An inflated real estate market just pushed it over the edge. This is a self induced market correction we are experiencing, and yeah we are taking it up the a*s because we ignored it for so long. Same thing goes for our economy......the longer we continue printing new money with no basis for the dollar......and borrowing money from china and the rest of the world.........the less we are going to really own.

YES, I believe we need to try to bring those jobs home again. But as a nation we are going to have to tighten our belts to do it and be COMPETITIVE. I love my 73 trans am. But I drive a little toyota. And for now I'm going to buy a $270 Champion radiator over a $700 Griffin/Howe/Davis one.

It was partly that attitude......oh well, I'll continue to buy american whether its a good product or not, whether its more expensive or not............that GOT us to this spot in the first place. American cars are an example. GM, Chrysler and Ford all continued in their old ways cause the good old american public kept buying. So those companies said....why should we change what we are doing? Now that they've had a swift kick in the *** they are finally doing something to be competitive.....trimming workforces, trimming fat, trying to put out a better product.

I'm going to quote you here. "The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of a low price is forgotten !!!" Well for years as americans we had lots of stuff that was poor quality AND NOT EVEN low priced. It was also the assumption that all stuff from overseas was poor quality.......and it isnt.......that helped bite us, and HARD. So now we can get stuff from overseas often times thats low price and GOOD quality......................but you want us to buy american at higher prices? Not gonna happen. When the rest of america can do what the auto industry is trying to do finally...........maybe we'll get jobs back.

[Alumitech Reproductions]

We can blame the past on the auto industry and unions .. and NAFTA ..surely I agree .. we can pick a part price differences all we want ... pricing .. percentages in cost .
the point of this exercise was to bring to light what we are doing now ..and what can be done about it .
now I know a few of you are taking this personally cause you have already bought China rads , and your trying to defend your actions,
and you seem perfectly willing to support the China economy , and this perpetuates the problem as a hole ... please don’t think im singeing you out , and take it personally.
the point im trying to make here is we all need to look at the big picture as a country and try when we can to stop supporting China
I was in a store shopping for light bulbs , the other day .. picked up a box of G.E. bulbs .. made in china ... picked up a box of off brand
humm made in the U.S.A and at a less price then the name brand G.E . .. surprising .. so when you can try to look for American made
the cost of supporting China is going to cost us everything in the end .. we have to start to make a turning point some where .
as this country did with recycling and gas guzzling cars and energy sources .
I hope somebody here will stand behind me with the Buy American idea .

[MonzaRacer]

Again, I can say that if a guy has a big paying factory job, and I am in the repair industry (Master Technician) and make $25k to $35k and the factory guy gets union pay(figure $50k to $80k) and puts out a $600 Radiator from an aforementioned premium rad company. They build garbage. Had a motorhome with one of their combo rad/intercooler like a $2500 piece, said 6 weeks out as its custom built,,,guess what,,,after 6weeks, they never had even started on it, told us 3 more weeks.
I made a call to Fluidyne and in 4 days later it showed up,, after we measured it, sent pics and tada they replicated it.
AND it was perfect fit. We canceled "other brand" and it shows up 4 weeks later,,, built wrong FROM THEIR part number.
So that American comapny can take a flying leap.
Oh and Fluidyne was a third of the cost.
Oh and lets put $600 rads in the picture for a guy like me,,, that would take me any where a couple of weeks of side jobs or if lucky 2 or 3 months of saving.
I worked in a rad shop, build copper and brass ones, saw a tube and fin machine on tour of Modine factory, spitting out core.
I have done some tig welding but it can be done by robotics but also watched a tig welded rad done in about an hour or two.
Not saying every rad or welder can be that fast, but it doesnt seem to take 2 months plus to make.
Oh and the brand uses epoxy on their crap, pass
figure it this way, IF I buy cheap and it breaks I learn that brand sucks, if I buy cheap and it lasts 16 years,,,well guess what gets bought!
Not knocking some of the higher parts but not everyone can spend a years wages to build a car to have fun on.
JUst putting my own point out there.

[hotroddr]

Anyone try one of the speedway radiators? They start at 109.99. Im considering using a couple in my projects.
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speedw...tors,3557.html

[old66tiger]

I buy American where ever possible. I own one hot rod. Not two, three, four, etc like lots of other guys so I buy only the best parts that I can find. When I have the money, I will be buying a mark 7 unit. In my opinion, I see lots of guys with lots of projects in process and very few done. I prefer to not spread myself that thin and have one nice hot rod with the very best possible.

[hotroddr]

Anyone try one of the speedway radiators? They start at 109.99. Im considering using a couple in my projects.
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speedw...tors,3557.html

I bit the bullet and bought one of the speedway radiators. I made some custom brackets and installed the 31X19" radiator in the firebird this weekend. So far Im very happy with it. It was the biggest radiator they made and it barely fit. In over 100 degree weather it used to run around 225°, now it runs at 195°. The quality is pretty good on the radiator, it is all brazed/welded, I will try to post pictures soon.

[Nothingface5384]

I Bought them for both my cars...3 years in the maverick and its still working awsome...not so good luck on the one for my buick skylark...went through 2 radiators in less then a year due to the core leaking..

i then just stepped upto an american built rad from alumintech and cant be more happier

you can get an alumintech for 495 2 cores at 1' tuving..or for an extra 50 you can get it made with 1.25 tubing

the ebay rads are 7/8 tubing or 3/4 tubing...cant remember
champion radiaor has blown up on ebay..from 2 distributors...champion and monstercooling to everyone and there mother..in result I believe the quality went down hill..

I plan to send mine back so if you think an ab0dy rad can fit i can sell you the new 4 core for 130 shipped

[Nothingface5384]

ps. the lifetime warrenty doesnt mean **** if you have to keep paying for shipping to send your ****ty leaky cored radiator back so they can send you a new one back only to leak in a similar fashion in less then 3 months

[Nothingface5384]

also evertime i went to the car show and seen a car with a champion radiator theyve all been rewelded at the end tank where they apprently leaked....except for the maverick ones oddly..
both mine seem to leak near the center of the core and not near the endtanks live everyone elses ive noticed..

[SparkyRnD]

We are also a sponsor here, and fabricate radiators that usually fall in the $400-$500 range. That price includes a trans cooler and we can build them for most any motor swap, including LS conversions. We use dual 1" wide cores (same thickness as a brass & copper 4-core radiator), and can also make them with 1.25" cores for big motors. You can check out what we make on our website at www.rndfabrication.com.

Also, we are American owned, and make our radiators right here in the USA, by Americans using American materials. Contact me if you have any questions.

[BulldawgMusclecars]

We are also a sponsor here, and fabricate radiators that usually fall in the $400-$500 range. That price includes a trans cooler and we can build them for most any motor swap, including LS conversions. We use dual 1" wide cores (same thickness as a brass & copper 4-core radiator), and can also make them with 1.25" cores for big motors. You can check out what we make on our website at www.rndfabrication.com.

Also, we are American owned, and make our radiators right here in the USA, by Americans using American materials. Contact me if you have any questions.

These are some EXTREMELY nice radiators! I'm now using them exclusively for all my project cars.