HOWE tall ball joint question

[BigBlockOlds]

I went to torque down my ball joints and found that when torqued to the factory specs, the nut is too far down on the stud. Being that far down, if I put a cotter pin through the stud, its no where close to the nut, thus there's no way its going to be able to keep it from back off.

Has anyone else ran into a situation like this? I've had people tell me that you can use a thick washer under the nut to get it back where you need it but that seems a bit shady. The last thing I want to do is compromise a critical suspension part.

Thanks guys,

[MarkM66]

Yeah, that's not good.

Are you using your stock spindle? Sounds like it's worn.

[BigBlockOlds]

Yes, its my stock spindle. I double checked the measurement and to get the hole in the stud to be centered within one of the notches in the nut, the nut would need to be raised another 1/4".

Here's a few pictures:









I thought maybe my spindles were worn but if they are, then all the ball joint holes on both spindles are worn the exact same.

When I first assembled everything, I checked to make sure the ball joints were seating properly by using machinist dye on the studs and then tightening everything down.
The patterns looked fine and the ball joints are seating really well in the spindles considering it took a mallet to get them separated again.

[BonzoHansen]

You might want to call Marcus at SC&C to verify, but here was my experience in my 2nd gen.

Same issue as you. I used a washer to bring up the nut. The washer I 1st used either came with the how joints or with the moog joints I also had. I later replaced them with gr8 washers as I found those original ones to be a bit deformed after some use. I had taken them apart for inspection after a thread about the Howe joints needing to be torqued down to 60 ft/pds, not the 83 ft-pds my GM manual called for.

No problems as of last inspection, but I will look again soon as part of the spring time inspections.

[BigBlockOlds]

Hmmmm...

I do have a call into Marcus at SC&C but haven't heard back yet.

I hadn't heard about the different torque value for the HOWE joints. I know my stock specs call for 81ft/lbs for the lowers and 60 or 63ft/lbs for the uppers.
Right now I just torqued them down to 40ft/lbs.

I am looking into the washers since I've heard that seems to be a fairly common fix.

Thanks,

[676869addict]

you could drill another hole 90 degrees from that hole a little lower down

[CRead01]

are you sure that they are the correct taper?

I bought some from sc&c and they accidently sent me the wrong taper and it gave me just the opposite effect. i could barely get the nut on. I would take calipers and measure the top and bottom of your ball joint taper and see if they are close.

[JRouche]

To me it looks like a short nut. But either a taller nut or a thick washer will fix it. I would make sure the pin of the balljoint isnt in the bore of the spindle too far just to make sure. You dont want the flat of the pin (the section past the taper) to be contacting the spindle. If the spindle is clear of the non-tapered part of the pin then I think you are ok. Just raise the nut up with a washer or get some taller nuts. JR

[BigBlockOlds]

Well, I haven't heard back from Marcus but in the meantime I tried a few high grade steel washers and it seemed to work out perfectly.
One washer under each nut and then torqued to spec. Slid the cotter pin in and everything looks kosher.

[Tony_SS]

Did you look for a taller castle nut? I think that'd work too, and might be ideal over using the washers.

[68400BIRD]

The nut does not do a lot after the joint is locked into position. Not saying that you do not need it. I had the same problem on my car. But mine also came with spacers (washers) I installed one or two on each side and never had a problem.

[JRouche]

Did you look for a taller castle nut? I think that'd work too, and might be ideal over using the washers.

I dont see any diff between using washers or a taller nut. Interested to hear why you like a taller nut VS washers. I might be able to learn something here. JR

[BigBlockOlds]

I didn't bother looking for a taller nut because I felt like it would be similar to trying to find a needle in a haystack.
The thick washers were pretty easy to find.

[JRouche]

I didn't bother looking for a taller nut because I felt like it would be similar to trying to find a needle in a haystack.
The thick washers were pretty easy to find.

Zactly!! JR

[MonzaRacer]

Most hardware stores (good old fashion ones) will carry several different height nuts.
As for using washers IF something moves the flat washers can let nuts loosen up. Basicly if you have the nuts torqued, the cotter pin doesnt actually keep it from coming loose it keeps nut from disappearing ,basicly to retain it and allow retorqueing.
Some of the cheaper over the counter stuff comes without proper height nuts. not necessary but if it makes ya happy,,,,.

[Tony_SS]

Most hardware stores (good old fashion ones) will carry several different height nuts.
As for using washers IF something moves the flat washers can let nuts loosen up. Basicly if you have the nuts torqued, the cotter pin doesnt actually keep it from coming loose it keeps nut from disappearing ,basicly to retain it and allow retorqueing.
Some of the cheaper over the counter stuff comes without proper height nuts. not necessary but if it makes ya happy,,,,.

That's what I was thinking.. more chance of it coming loose with a stack of washers underneath there.

Ace Hardware usually has that stuff.. if not then Id go for a solid spacer over the washers. It might 6 1/2dozen the other but that's JMO.