383 or 350

[justasquid]

Hello all. I have a small delima I hope some of you can help me with. I have a 68 camaro that I am planning on installing an LS-1 with a 6 speed, eventually. But, with my current financial state, it looks like I will be rebuilding my 350 instead to save on some money and do the LS-1 later on. I have a fairly limited budget, about 2 grand to build my engine. I am starting off with a good 4 bolt core. At this time, I am not sure what the heads are, but they are the stock heads. the engine is a 300 hp 1970 engine. I ran the numbers awhile back and thats what came back. As far as the performance of the heads, Im just not sure right now.

Heres my question. Should I spend the money on rebuilding the 350, with a pair of aluminum heads and other top end items, or should I spend that money on a 383 rotating assembly and keep the stock top end.

My goal for this engine is 400 hp, give or take a little. I don't mind a choppy idle, in fact, I kind of prefer it. gas mileage isnt too much of a concern right now either. As long as Im getting around 10-12 mpg, I'll be happy as the car won't be driven every day. the engine will be in combination with an automatic. I currently have a turbo 350, but have acccess to a turbo 400 if its needed.

If anyone has any suggestions, I would greatly appreciate any input. Even input concerning combinations for cams and heads would be very helpful.

thanks,

[oestek]

Just did a 383 in a '69 Camaro... for it to be worth it, you need to get a decent set of heads and a good cam. Personally, I'd spend the cash on a complete 5.3 Gen III motor and save the extra $1000 to put towards the trans!

[b-man]

The heads are where the power is produced.

A 350 (355) with a good set of heads and a decent cam will walk all over a 383 with stock heads.

The added cubes of the 383 won't make up for the poor-breathing stock heads. Affordable aluminum heads for the SBC are plentiful and are the best bang for the buck in this instance, take advantage of them.

[cheapthrillz]

You could go carbed LS-1 for a while and save up on the headers, FI, and ecm... Just a thought...

[Steve Chryssos]

Are they legit 1970 heads? They might be worth money to someone with a nut and bolt resto. 383 cranks are inexpensive and will make it easier to reach your 400 HP goal assuming that you spend money on heads.

[badbu68]

Personally, I'd spend the cash on a complete 5.3 Gen III motor and save the extra $1000 to put towards the trans!

I'd go for this, something out of a truck for cheap and that way you could buy headers and mounts and would be set up for the LS swap.

[redhead]

if you had a heavier car I recommend the 383 otherwise build the 355 topend.

[6'9"Witha69]

Spend on the top end now. Suppose you late want a 383, a bottom end redo would require new rods and pistons anyway, Spend it where it will count now (top end) and enjoy. As was said early, the extra cubes will be worthless trying to breathe through stock heads.

[justasquid]

ok, thanks a ton guys.

Another question, does anyone have any experience with Procomp cylinder heads? Ive seen them used on buget builds in magazines and they seem to flow pretty good. Since I am scraping money right now, and they seem to do a good job for the cost, I wonder if they would be a good choice to run with.

My final goal is to run an LS-1, so I don't want to dump a bunch of money into this engine as I know it will be coming out eventually. But I would like it to perform while its in there.

thanks again everyone, I truly appreciate it.

[cheapthrillz]

Don't know if anyone here has any dealings with Patriot heads, but i've heard good things about them from some drag racers. Not sure what all they have to offer, but a few months back, the price was VERY GOOD on them. Not sure what the price looks like now, but might be worth looking into...

[justasquid]

I tried to research the Patriot heads and came up empty as far as reviews on them.

The more research I do, the more confused I get. I wouldn't mind spending the extra money on a really good set of heads if thats what I need. Im just not convinced I need a set of AFR or Dart heads to make a 400hp engine.

I have been seeing some really decent top end packages for around 1600-1800. Being the cam, intake and heads. Holley, Edelbrock and Trickflow all have packages. the only problem is its going to put me over my budget by the time I buy everything else, but I guess I can save up a little more now. I'm sure it will be better in the long run. I just wish I knew of people that ran the Procomp or even the Patriot heads and what the results were.

[Pro Stock]

I tried to research the Patriot heads and came up empty as far as reviews on them.

The more research I do, the more confused I get. I wouldn't mind spending the extra money on a really good set of heads if thats what I need. Im just not convinced I need a set of AFR or Dart heads to make a 400hp engine.

I have been seeing some really decent top end packages for around 1600-1800. Being the cam, intake and heads. Holley, Edelbrock and Trickflow all have packages. the only problem is its going to put me over my budget by the time I buy everything else, but I guess I can save up a little more now. I'm sure it will be better in the long run. I just wish I knew of people that ran the Procomp or even the Patriot heads and what the results were.

I built a 350 several years back that had a set of factory Chevy iron heads that had a 3 angle valve job and blend with a mild Comp Cam hydraulic cam, Corvette aluminum dual plane intake manifold and Holley 750 carb with a set of Hooker 1 5/8 headers that made 414 HP at the flywheel on my dyno. Since you already have the engine you should be able to get this done for $1000-$1500, invest the rest in a 4.10 back gear.

Dale

[tonykim]

Until you're sure that an LS1 is in your future I'd stick with the 350 and save a little and get a good aluminum head like AFR 180. With a mild 270H comp cam and a 750 cfm carb and long tubes you can make 430 hp but most importantly 470 ft-lb of torque. Plus you have room to grow if you later want to stroke the shortblock. the heads will work well even if you stick with the same cam or you can upgrade. Check out the 355 combos on AFR's website... http://www.airflowresearch.com/chevy_dyno.php

I've seen a lot of big cam stock head 350s and they sound good at idle and cruising but for power they run out of steam quick because the cam needs air when the heads fall on their face.

[justasquid]

thanks for the info. that really reasures me. I noticed that the 180 heads and the 195 heads are the same price. Is there any reason not to go with the 195? Is there ever a chance of going too big?

thanks again, really helpful info so far.

[alnoe]

Also, take a look at this article:

http://www.superchevy.com/technical/...ine/index.html

Trick flow has several top end kits which will help you meet your goals easily. And, our top end kits will make great power for a very reasonable amount of money, and we dyno test them in house to make sure that you get what you pay for.

Thanks
Al

[tonykim]

Going with the 195 heads just make sure you have a large enough cam and enough compression ratio.

I think that Trick Flow (TFS) makes really great stuff as well. I have TFS heads on my 93 Fox mustang and they were ported by TEA and make big flow especially at mid lift.

Most important thing is to have a power goal and then make sure the compression ratio, head flow and port volume, and cam will all work together.

[MonzaRacer]

Heck order up a good rebuild kit from northernautoparts.com get some SR torquers or even 72 cc Sportsman IIs from World and tada. 400+

Heck order up a good rebuild kit from northernautoparts.com get some SR torquers or even 72 cc Sportsman IIs from World and tada. 400+
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WRL-012250-1/ times 2
http://www.ohiocrank.com/chevsb_rotate.html call them and see if they will swap out the 383 crank for a 350 but heck even at $595 the 383 rotating assembly is a steal

Heck even an extra 100 bucks gets you even better rods. you dont need a 4 bolt main block but if you got it If its a 70 350 probably has 441, 487,or even 993 heads.

Give up the last three of the casting numbers, those 3 head numbers can be made to run great. Heck I took a set of 991 Truck heads, opened them up to 1.94 from 1.74s and throated them, and even still kept the 3/8ths stem valves. those heads were awesome.
And besides if you get a solid 350-375 lb ft of torque you wont care if the engine makes 400 hp.
Build for low end torque and solid reliability. And you should be able to get a decent cam for cheap the old Sealed Power CS-1013R works well has a great rumble and doesnt even require big heads if you want to save.

[Mkelcy]

Me, I'd find the cheapest rebuilt shortblock I could find (I got one for $400), reuse my topend, get a decent hydraulic cam and not waste money on an engine you're planning on yanking.

[turner69camaro]

Heck you can buy a complete rotating assembly for a 383 for less than $600-700 dollars with a cast crank, i beam rods & flat top pistons. Then add the aluminum heads and make close to 500hp. Then if you want to go with the LS-1 then sell the 383 for good money and buy one. My guess is you won't want anymore than the 383 though. I did a 355 with an eagle bottom end and some Manley 11:1 slugs from the 70's and vortec heads with a solid roller in my shop S10 and it went 11.70's on motors and 10.70's on a 180 shot!

[transamguy79]

i would go with a 350 and have it bored to a 355. a buddy of mine was going to do the 383 but decided to go with the 355 path. and he's running 8 secs now.