328i vs Camaro?

[cheapthrillz]

guys if you want a fun weekend...head out to the BMW dealer and take the 335Xi out for a spin...i took my old man out and i couldnt wipe the smile off this face all day...and just before we went out in it we were across the street at the Chevy dealer and took both V6 and V8 camaro for a 30min boot each...i told my dad i bet you 100 bucks that BMW across the street will blow your mind even after we drove the 400Hp Camaro SS....i won the bet...my dad is 68 years old and had many a car in his day and he said he has never experienced a more powerful and responsive automobile in his life. Lucky for us no cops caught us because the sales rep gave us permission to drive it like we stole it! and we did

Or for even more fun, come to SC and go to the BMW Proving Grounds for a day of thrashing. I learned a whole new respect for BMW's....

[JEFFTATE]

The old Camaros are great.
BMW's are great.
I just don't think an old Camaro with 425 hp will out handle a 328i.
A heavily modified older Camaro probably can.
But a stock-type suspension probably won't.

You could probably beat him in a straught line , if you had some sticky tires ( like drag radials ),
but if you spin the tires a lot , he may beat you.

[79-TA]

If your figures for hp and weight are accurate, you'll be fine in a straight line, especially from a roll.

For more insurance, get the drag radials you were talking about and take your car to the strip so you can figure out the launch before your friendly competition.


I highly doubt that you're going to square off at a trackday (as in roadcourse) or autocross. If so, there's a lot to address. Nevertheless, you should try such an event out sometime.



And lastly, make sure to bring another friend along as a camera man. A picture's worth a thousand words, and a video even more so.

[BIGX69]

MAN!!! I LOVE THIS FORUMTUFF LUV!!!!!

[79-TA]

ie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unoFG...er_profilepage

That was a 9.0 second 1/8th mile at 80 mph with a very conservative launch (after spinning off the line the race before.) My car weighs no more than 3700 pounds with me in it. Also of note, my car still has 2.73's out back so it was only just getting to 4000 rpm in 2nd gear when it went across the line. Your 3.42's will make a huge difference. How do you know your car's hp and tq ratings? Crate motor? Actual dyno run?


More details on the 328 would be nice. You can always search dragtimes.com to get an idea of what your friend's car would run.

http://www.dragtimes.com/results.php...arch+DragTimes

[76z28]

HA THIS IS A BMW FAN BOY SITE
I HAVE RACED A 328i in my TRUCK A TUNDRA
and beat it with a full tank of gas and my dad sitting next to me
so DONT TELL ME A 328 will whip my ass because i have seen what they can do
and trust me its not alot
its the base series
even my friend a fan boy of bmw says my camaro will whip it
i came on here more over to see what other bmw fan boy would say
and well they all say the same thing

[76z28]

ie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unoFG...er_profilepage

That was a 9.0 second 1/8th mile at 80 mph with a very conservative launch (after spinning off the line the race before.) My car weighs no more than 3700 pounds with me in it. Also of note, my car still has 2.73's out back so it was only just getting to 4000 rpm in 2nd gear when it went across the line. Your 3.42's will make a huge difference. How do you know your car's hp and tq ratings? Crate motor? Actual dyno run?


More details on the 328 would be nice. You can always search dragtimes.com to get an idea of what your friend's car would run.

http://www.dragtimes.com/results.php...arch+DragTimes

yea i have searched and so far i have found 328s running mid 15s
so i think i have him
i bought the kit that was rated at 420 and instead of the cam that was coming in the kit i ordered the bigger one because it would have been a month before i got it(which will work better with my converter anyway)

[76z28]

You know what, kid? We're about as hard as can get into american cars. Every guy in here is pushing their car harder and to higher levels than you know about. I'm sure you've heard of rap--which means you've heard of T.I--Well when it comes to taking and old car and making it go, stop, AND turn as hard as it possibly can--whatchu know about that? CAUSE WE KNOW ALL ABOUT THAT.

Did you even take the time to LOOK at the cars around here? There are two groups of guys, really--guys who a) have the money to buy any damn bmw they want, and still rock old school muscle and b) guys who, if they took all the blood, sweat, tears and time they have into their cars into a second job, could easily buy any damn bmw they want with the amount of money they'd make--but instead, they're out in their garages working their asses off to get every extra second out of their american muscle. We bleed motor oil around here. The guys who say a bmw would walk your ass? They probably know because they've raced them. Since you had to come onto a forum to ask, I'm gonna go ahead and bet you probably haven't gone out and raced the 328. Or, realistically, probably much of anything. Me? I spent an entire day beating on the new 3-series at bmw's performance test track. I ripped it around their road course, I ran it on the skidpad, they even set up a test course for us that was part-dry, part-wet, with everything from 100mph straights to slaloms to hairpin turns in the rain, and I can tell you, after BEATING THE S**T OUT OF ONE WITH MY OWN HANDS (you know, instead of just "riding in one" like you) that they are EXTREMELY capable cars, and I have a whole new respect for even the measliest of the 3 series.

So here's the deal. If you want to stay, want to learn, want to find out what we're all about, feel free. If you want to hop on here with your little f***ing attitude and talk s**t about how we're all stuck up foreign car's asses despite nearly every person in here driving a sick ass vintage american muscle car BY CHOICE, then like cheapthrillz said,

We're not here to make you feel good about your car. We're not here to bash non-american cars just because "you got a reel big moter and yer daddy set up a racin' suspension but yer rippin all that out 'cause you like drag racin'". We're here to give you honest opinions about how your car will handle against other performance cars based on our REAL-WORLD EXPERIENCE. You think we're wrong? Get off your ass, go prove us wrong. Put the f*ck up or shut the f*ck up. That is, if daddy'll give you the keys, of course.

oh and dumb ass its my car
i worked for him so i could have it
i bet you have no idea how an engine works Mr. oil blood
and spell MOTOR right

[Twentyover]

deleted

[smooth68]

oh and dumb ass its my car
i worked for him so i could have it
i bet you have no idea how an engine works Mr. oil blood
and spell MOTOR right

You are a true knucklehead 76z28.....How old are you anyway...15 or 16??..

[cheapthrillz]

You might want to rethink what you said to Formula.... He's about to get his PhD in automotive engineering, so I think he has a clue to how an engine works. He also has a '78 Firebird that would spank your Camaro in ANY event..... Better take a chill pill with the rude comments to everyone or you're going to get hit with the Ban-Stick..... Many of the people on this site have had there cars featured in most of the muscle car magazines. If you love racing and cars and expect to be respected on this site, you might want to appologize to the people to whom you've been rude.

You came on here asking for our opinion and you got it. Sorry it wasn't what you wanted to hear.

[smooth68]

no i dont think the 328i will eat me on a road course
i weight less plus that is what the car was set up to do so it has the right suspension(thats what my dad did when he was young with this car) but now im setting it up for drag which is what im going to use it for

You should also remember, in your own words"i weight less plus that is what the car was set up to do so it has the right suspension(thats what my dad did when he was young with this car)" ....So if your dad set up the suspension when he was young like you said, then you cannot even compare that to the suspension of the newer BMW for road course runs.....So again, like all the rest of the oil-bleeding, American muscle loving, hard working hot rodders on this forum, I also say that you should be able to take him in a drag run, but you dont stand a chance against him on a road course!!!!
Oh, by the way, its "I weigh less" not "i weight less"....since you are so smart and all!:bsjerk:

[formula]

oh and dumb ass its my car
i worked for him so i could have it
i bet you have no idea how an engine works Mr. oil blood
and spell MOTOR right

Well, that depends on what you mean by "how an engine works", doesn't it?

Would you like for me to just explain the simple 4-stroke cycle that every chump with a 76 z28 who thinks his car is the pinnacle of hot-rod tech knows? Or would you prefer I actually go through and explain the energy cycle that an IC engine uses? Or perhaps I should go through and explain the cycles for an internal combustion engine, diesel engine, sterling engine, and Otto cycle engine?

How about this: You tell me what this is and derive all of the equations represented around it, and then I will stop making you look like a complete tool. Bonus points if you can tell me how forced induction would affect the curve.



I mean come on, this is basic thermodynamics, kid. Surely you wouldn't walk around not knowing stuff like this and talk about how much you know about engines, would you?

Oh, that's not what you meant when you said I don't know how an engine works? Then real quick, how about you explain the purpose of cam overlap to everyone. Or maybe what an oversquare engine is. Cathedral-style intake ports? How about basic carburetion tech? Fuel system design? Exhaust tuning based on resonance frequencies? Powertrain efficiency estimations? In-cylinder fuel-flow patterns? Combustion chamber design? Hypereutectic piston design disadvantages? Maybe you'd just like to help us with a pro-con analysis of overhead cam vs. pushrod-style timing systems?

Maybe you wanted to have a discussion about alternative drivetrain configurations? I just finished writing a 6-page analysis that ranks different powertrain and vehicle architectures based on their calculated UDDS, HWFET, and EPA fuel efficiencies, carbon footprint, and overall cost-to-owner over a 5 year period for fuel costs ranging from 3 to 5 dollars. We could always talk about that! Turns out that decreasing the rolling resistance of tires by as little as .002 may be a viable low-cost alternative to more expensive fuel-saving methods! Can you explain what equations might be used for something like this, or how rolling resistance would even be a necessary part of the analysis? If that's not your style, how about you explain the basic operation, advantages and disadvantages of a hydraulic-diesel hybrid drivetrain architecture?

Or maybe you meant how engine design and manufacturing works? How about you just walk us through a typical manufacturing and assembly process for an engine? Or maybe a whole car? The science behind materials selection? Lean manufacturing? Push-vs-pull line architecture? 5s? 6 sigma? Tailor-welding?

Or maybe all you wanted was for me to tell you "gas and air go in, spark make gas go kaboom! and then the engine goes vrooooooooom and things move". Yay! I got it!

I'm gonna go ahead and bet that's the answer you wanted, since you didn't even catch that I WAS MAKING FUN OF YOU when I misspelled motor. I hope all of these multisyllabic words surrounded by proper punctuation don't confuse you--and I also hope that, since this is no-doubt the first time you've ever witnessed half the tech and terms I referenced up there, you'll take the time to google every topic I just referenced and start f*cking learning a few things before you come back on here and act like you're big sh*t again.

[smooth68]

Yea, This too!!! LOL

Well, that depends on what you mean by "how an engine works", doesn't it?

Would you like for me to just explain the simple 4-stroke cycle that every chump with a 76 z28 who thinks his car is the pinnacle of hot-rod tech knows? Or would you prefer I actually go through and explain the energy cycle that an IC engine uses? Or perhaps I should go through and explain the cycles for an internal combustion engine, diesel engine, sterling engine, and Otto cycle engine?

How about this: You tell me what this is and derive all of the equations represented around it, and then I will stop making you look like a complete tool. Bonus points if you can tell me how forced induction would affect the curve.



I mean come on, this is basic thermodynamics, kid. Surely you wouldn't walk around not knowing stuff like this and talk about how much you know about engines, would you?

Oh, that's not what you meant when you said I don't know how an engine works? Then real quick, how about you explain the purpose of cam overlap to everyone. Or maybe what an oversquare engine is. Cathedral-style intake ports? How about basic carburetion tech? Fuel system design? Exhaust tuning based on resonance frequencies? Powertrain efficiency estimations? In-cylinder fuel-flow patterns? Combustion chamber design? Hypereutectic piston design disadvantages? Maybe you'd just like to help us with a pro-con analysis of overhead cam vs. pushrod-style timing systems?

Maybe you wanted to have a discussion about alternative drivetrain configurations? I just finished writing a 6-page analysis that ranks different powertrain and vehicle architectures based on their calculated UDDS, HWFET, and EPA fuel efficiencies, carbon footprint, and overall cost-to-owner over a 5 year period for fuel costs ranging from 3 to 5 dollars. We could always talk about that! Turns out that decreasing the rolling resistance of tires by as little as .002 may be a viable low-cost alternative to more expensive fuel-saving methods! Can you explain what equations might be used for something like this, or how rolling resistance would even be a necessary part of the analysis? If that's not your style, how about you explain the basic operation, advantages and disadvantages of a hydraulic-diesel hybrid drivetrain architecture?

Or maybe you meant how engine design and manufacturing works? How about you just walk us through a typical manufacturing and assembly process for an engine? Or maybe a whole car? The science behind materials selection? Lean manufacturing? Push-vs-pull line architecture? 5s? 6 sigma? Tailor-welding?

Or maybe all you wanted was for me to tell you "gas and air go in, spark make gas go kaboom! and then the engine goes vrooooooooom and things move". Yay! I got it!

I'm gonna go ahead and bet that's the answer you wanted, since you didn't even catch that I WAS MAKING FUN OF YOU when I misspelled motor. I hope all of these multisyllabic words surrounded by proper punctuation don't confuse you--and I also hope that, since this is no-doubt the first time you've ever witnessed half the tech and terms I referenced up there, you'll take the time to google every topic I just referenced and start f*cking learning a few things before you come back on here and act like you're big sh*t again.

[andrewb70]

oh and dumb ass its my car
i worked for him so i could have it
i bet you have no idea how an engine works Mr. oil blood
and spell MOTOR right

Take it easy. I suggest you read the forum rules before posting any further. We've had a fairly light trigger on the ban gun lately. Welcome to the site. Enjoy yourself.

As for the 328 vs Camaro debate, I will put my money on the better driver, especially on a road course.

Andrew

[andrewb70]

You are a true MORON 76z28.....How old are you anyway...15 or 16??..

You take it easy as well, please.

Andrew

[smooth68]

Sorry Andrew...

[cheapthrillz]

Well, that depends on what you mean by "how an engine works", doesn't it?

Would you like for me to just explain the simple 4-stroke cycle that every chump with a 76 z28 who thinks his car is the pinnacle of hot-rod tech knows? Or would you prefer I actually go through and explain the energy cycle that an IC engine uses? Or perhaps I should go through and explain the cycles for an internal combustion engine, diesel engine, sterling engine, and Otto cycle engine?

How about this: You tell me what this is and derive all of the equations represented around it, and then I will stop making you look like a complete tool. Bonus points if you can tell me how forced induction would affect the curve.



I mean come on, this is basic thermodynamics, kid. Surely you wouldn't walk around not knowing stuff like this and talk about how much you know about engines, would you?

Oh, that's not what you meant when you said I don't know how an engine works? Then real quick, how about you explain the purpose of cam overlap to everyone. Or maybe what an oversquare engine is. Cathedral-style intake ports? How about basic carburetion tech? Fuel system design? Exhaust tuning based on resonance frequencies? Powertrain efficiency estimations? In-cylinder fuel-flow patterns? Combustion chamber design? Hypereutectic piston design disadvantages? Maybe you'd just like to help us with a pro-con analysis of overhead cam vs. pushrod-style timing systems?

Maybe you wanted to have a discussion about alternative drivetrain configurations? I just finished writing a 6-page analysis that ranks different powertrain and vehicle architectures based on their calculated UDDS, HWFET, and EPA fuel efficiencies, carbon footprint, and overall cost-to-owner over a 5 year period for fuel costs ranging from 3 to 5 dollars. We could always talk about that! Turns out that decreasing the rolling resistance of tires by as little as .002 may be a viable low-cost alternative to more expensive fuel-saving methods! Can you explain what equations might be used for something like this, or how rolling resistance would even be a necessary part of the analysis? If that's not your style, how about you explain the basic operation, advantages and disadvantages of a hydraulic-diesel hybrid drivetrain architecture?

Or maybe you meant how engine design and manufacturing works? How about you just walk us through a typical manufacturing and assembly process for an engine? Or maybe a whole car? The science behind materials selection? Lean manufacturing? Push-vs-pull line architecture? 5s? 6 sigma? Tailor-welding?

Or maybe all you wanted was for me to tell you "gas and air go in, spark make gas go kaboom! and then the engine goes vrooooooooom and things move". Yay! I got it!

I'm gonna go ahead and bet that's the answer you wanted, since you didn't even catch that I WAS MAKING FUN OF YOU when I misspelled motor. I hope all of these multisyllabic words surrounded by proper punctuation don't confuse you--and I also hope that, since this is no-doubt the first time you've ever witnessed half the tech and terms I referenced up there, you'll take the time to google every topic I just referenced and start f*cking learning a few things before you come back on here and act like you're big sh*t again.

I told you to apologize.... Now look what you've done....

I would like to add: TPS and JIT management systems.... those are good too...

[79-TA]

Well, that depends on what you mean by "how an engine works", doesn't it?

aahh, seeing thermo on this site makes me happy.

Hey now, what are you doing posting diesel P-V diagrams on this site? (or more accurately, the simplified completely reversible air standard compression ignition 2-stroke version with instant heat exchange . . . like you said, basic thermo) Let's keep things pure and stay with the good ol' spark ignition Otto cycle.

For kicks, here's one that models all 4 strokes (it's just whatever came up in a quick google search )

[79-TA]

its the base series

Yea, that's fine, but WHAT YEAR? Some lightly modded 328's can get pretty far into the 14's and even into the 13's.

And remember, it's all too easy to screw up a drag run. There are plenty of high horsepower cars that would have no problem running 12's but end up in the 14's due to an inexperienced driver. For instance, in the second run I made in my Trans Am, I spun off the line against a Nissan 240. I still blew the little nissan away, but my time was a full half second slower than my previous run (a 9.3 compared to a previous 8.8 in the 1/8th.) For some perspective, my commuter Mustang (if it had more aggressive rear gears) could have beaten my 400+ hp car with its measly 225 hp.



Go to the track, get familiar with the staging procedure (ie, don't be a jerk that double bulbs), and figure out which rpm you can consistently launch at without spinning (of course, it's ok to ride out a little bit of mild spin.) If your car is what you say it is, it has no business losing in any straight line contest against a stock 328. However, in drag racing, the quickest car does not always win. If you sleep at the line or redlight, you've lost. Don't be that guy. Get to the track, practice, learn, and have a good time. Oh yea, and get a video of it for bragging rights.




Lastly, drop the attitude. Just because the people on this site note that the 2nd gen suspension was designed 40 years ago doesn't make them BMW fanboys.

Just curious, what tires are you running on your car?