Pedal Talk

[cheapthrillz]

I wouldn't laugh - I cant even weld so you're a few steps ahead of me...

Does the bottom plate attach to the balance assembly? If not I think it may be dead weight.

If you want additional support. I was looking at the pics in the endine bay. I think I see two bolts located on the firewall under the master cylinder. You coul use those to triangulate the fixture and support it....

I made a quick MS paint drawing... its a side view and uses the plate you have that attatches to the firewall. The side plates are wider where it attatches to the firewall for more weld area. The other gray line is a flat bar that would replace the L pieces you have now. The hole is to access the balance bar adjustment. The green line can be the extra support bars that goes to a mounting point below, near the steering column. You could also make the lines more angular and the hole a triangle if you think it would looke better. It would probably fit the lines of the car better....

Yes, the bottom plate has 4 small bolts that run through my bracket into the tilton bracket. I did that to resist the rotational force that is created from the pivot on the balance bar. As it sits, there are four 5/16 bolts in the angle steel (2 per side) and four 1/4 bolts in the bottom plate.

The main reason I built it like this was for the adjustability. It is more of just a mock up/jig because I can slide the Tilton assembly toward or away from the firewall.

I think what I will do is just get my pedals remounted and buy the two MC's that I think I need and just see how it all actuates. Then try to build a rigid, final bracket.

I don't think that the strap going down to the firewall is necessary. All of the weight of the bracket is supported by the 4 posts coming from the pedal assembly through the firewall.

[Payton King]

sizing on my masters one more time. Once you figure out what size you need drop me a pm. I have every size master that tilton makes that I have bought getting my brakes dialed in. I am now going for a 7/10 front, 3/4 rear. If that works for me, which I think it will, i will have 5/8,7/8 and a 1 inch that have a few miles on them.

What brakes calipers will you be running on your car? What pads? Pedal ratio? I may be able to help you get close on the sizing.

[cheapthrillz]

sizing on my masters one more time. Once you figure out what size you need drop me a pm. I have every size master that tilton makes that I have bought getting my brakes dialed in. I am now going for a 7/10 front, 3/4 rear. If that works for me, which I think it will, i will have 5/8,7/8 and a 1 inch that have a few miles on them.

What brakes calipers will you be running on your car? What pads? Pedal ratio? I may be able to help you get close on the sizing.

Awesome Payton! I will definitely keep you in mind. I am still trying to figure out my MC selection (and I thought that the balance bar was complicated....lol). It sucks not knowing the current weight of the vehicle and it is hard to calculate while in the air with no wheels or tires on it....

The brakes are C6 Z51's from Kore3:

Fronts - 340mm DBA 4000 slotted, Aluminum hubs, C6 PBR twin 45mm piston calipers

Rears - 330mm DBA 4000 slotted, C6 PBR singe 40mm piston calipers

I have also decided that I WILL be running an adjustable prop valve during street use that can be "turned off" for future racing events.

I'm not sure on the pads.... whatever was in the bargain bin at Tobin's place lol

[Payton King]

and balance bar there is no need to the prop valve. You will size the master to your application and use the balance bar to fine tune.

The brakes that you are using have the same piston area as the 6 piston wilwoods I am running on the front and the 4 pistons on the rear.

Depending on the weight of your vehicle and your pedal ratio we are going to be pretty close to the same. I am going to guess that your car is going to be at least 3500 lbs so i would shoot for a pedal ratio of 6.5 to 7.5 :1. I would run as aggressive a pad as you can stand and not tear up your rotors. Hawk HP+ is suppose to be a good pad and not too expensive. I spoke to Tobin the other day and he turned me on to Carbotech. Come to find out they are located about 15 minutes from my house. I am trying there A6x pad. It is an autocross pad with great cold bite, which will be good for cold stops on the street. Suppose to be easy on the rotors but dusty and possibly noisy. Should have them on in a week or so and I will let you know what I think.

I am changing my front master to 7/10 and keeping the 3/4 on the rear. I will take pressure readings for you as well.

[cheapthrillz]

and balance bar there is no need to the prop valve. You will size the master to your application and use the balance bar to fine tune.

The brakes that you are using have the same piston area as the 6 piston wilwoods I am running on the front and the 4 pistons on the rear.

Depending on the weight of your vehicle and your pedal ratio we are going to be pretty close to the same. I am going to guess that your car is going to be at least 3500 lbs so i would shoot for a pedal ratio of 6.5 to 7.5 :1. I would run as aggressive a pad as you can stand and not tear up your rotors. Hawk HP+ is suppose to be a good pad and not too expensive. I spoke to Tobin the other day and he turned me on to Carbotech. Come to find out they are located about 15 minutes from my house. I am trying there A6x pad. It is an autocross pad with great cold bite, which will be good for cold stops on the street. Suppose to be easy on the rotors but dusty and possibly noisy. Should have them on in a week or so and I will let you know what I think.

I am changing my front master to 7/10 and keeping the 3/4 on the rear. I will take pressure readings for you as well.

Tobin and I have talked EXTENSIVELY about the use of a balance bar on the street. We have come to the conclusion that a proportioning valve in the rear system is a good idea for street use. It creates that knee point in your pressure/pressure curve that "factory" automobiles have. It keeps your from under-utilizing your rear brakes when braking less than maximum deceleration. So from that, you have less effort input by the front brakes to stop the car, pad life increases, and overall braking performance at lower deceleration rates increases (brake balance). When you set up your balance bar, you do it to give you the correct braking balance for MAXIMUM deceleration. Make sense? I have a hard time understanding all of this too.....

I think I posted my pedal ratio in this thread somewhere and IIRC it was something like 6.4:1 in the stock location. I do have a little room to increase that if necessary also and maybe get it closer to 7:1. Right now, if I had to guess, I would say the car is around 3800-4000 lbs. I do plan on putting her on a diet, but not immediately.

[The WidowMaker]

tobin and i had the same discussion about using a proportioning valve with my c6z brakes and balance bar setup, but it went way over my head. i even tried pulling up articles online, but got nowhere.

[cheapthrillz]

tobin and i had the same discussion about using a proportioning valve with my c6z brakes and balance bar setup, but it went way over my head. i even tried pulling up articles online, but got nowhere.

What did you end up doing?

[The WidowMaker]

nothing yet. i have the pedals and masters installed, but im still months away from the plumbing. i figure i still have time to decide, and guys like you to do my testing.

[cheapthrillz]

nothing yet. i have the pedals and masters installed, but im still months away from the plumbing. i figure i still have time to decide, and guys like you to do my testing.

Haha....understandable!

If you look back at my post where I quoted all of the stoptech info, it pretty much shows exactly what I am talking about.

[Brad_bb]

If you haven't ruled out stock pedals, there is an upgrade you can do to the stock ones while restoring them. There is a bearing kit available for the clutch pedal shaft to get rid of the stock die cast zinc bushings with plastic inserts and replace them with smooth ball bearings. Smoother pedal that can handle a stiffer clutch. The kit is available from mustangsteve.com Check out his tech article on it. I just got a kit to put on my GTO. Just have to make sure the pedal shaft is long enough. I think a lot of the 60's pedal assemblies had the same dimensions of shaft dia and width. I put a kit on a 65 Comet awhile back.

[cheapthrillz]

If you haven't ruled out stock pedals, there is an upgrade you can do to the stock ones while restoring them. There is a bearing kit available for the clutch pedal shaft to get rid of the stock die cast zinc bushings with plastic inserts and replace them with smooth ball bearings. Smoother pedal that can handle a stiffer clutch. The kit is available from mustangsteve.com Check out his tech article on it. I just got a kit to put on my GTO. Just have to make sure the pedal shaft is long enough. I think a lot of the 60's pedal assemblies had the same dimensions of shaft dia and width. I put a kit on a 65 Comet awhile back.

If you read through this thread, you will see where this is exactly what I did...... It turned out well, but I haven't used it yet to see how well it actually works.

[Brad_bb]

Doh! I only read the first page and didn't see the multiple pages. At least you guys do know about the bearing kit.

[cheapthrillz]

Doh! I only read the first page and didn't see the multiple pages. At least you guys do know about the bearing kit.

The guys over at FordMuscle told me about it, so I contacted Steve and he assured me that it would work..... I hope it funtions properly. Should be better than it was!

[Bjkadron]

Now that you have everything figured out let me throw my $0.02 in here. Another benefit to a prop valve over a balance bar is that you can adjust the F/R prop. on the fly. Which can be usefull figuring out exactly what you like and can be adjusted to suit changing track conditions. Just another thought for all those out there reading this. Btw... What is your friction surface on the pedals? bedliner or something? you might have already said but I didn't see it.

[cheapthrillz]

Now that you have everything figured out let me throw my $0.02 in here. Another benefit to a prop valve over a balance bar is that you can adjust the F/R prop. on the fly. Which can be usefull figuring out exactly what you like and can be adjusted to suit changing track conditions. Just another thought for all those out there reading this. Btw... What is your friction surface on the pedals? bedliner or something? you might have already said but I didn't see it.

Are you talking about running a prop valve instead of a balance bar, or in conjunction with?

The pedal "pad" is actually grip tape. We will see how long it lasts. Shouldn't have to worry about my foot slipping off though!

[Bjkadron]

Are you talking about running a prop valve instead of a balance bar, or in conjunction with?

The pedal "pad" is actually grip tape. We will see how long it lasts. Shouldn't have to worry about my foot slipping off though!

I was refering to just a prop valve. But I suppose it would work either way although you wouldn't have as much control over the turn in on braking as you would without the balance bar. I've been flopping back and fourth with what I want to do with mine but I'm actually leaning towards just the prop valve due to the "on the fly" adjustment and the better braking at less then full force.

Nice trick on the grip tape that stuff is usually pretty tough... Let us know how it works out.

[cheapthrillz]

I was refering to just a prop valve. But I suppose it would work either way although you wouldn't have as much control over the turn in on braking as you would without the balance bar. I've been flopping back and fourth with what I want to do with mine but I'm actually leaning towards just the prop valve due to the "on the fly" adjustment and the better braking at less then full force.

Nice trick on the grip tape that stuff is usually pretty tough... Let us know how it works out.

The Front to rear bias can also be changed on the fly with the Tilton setup.

I can't see a single reason to run a balance bar on the street, but since my car will see track time eventually, I decided to get one because it is the best system for racing.

I am getting a prop valve strictly for use on the street so that my rear pads last longer.

[Bjkadron]

The Front to rear bias can also be changed on the fly with the Tilton setup.

I can't see a single reason to run a balance bar on the street, but since my car will see track time eventually, I decided to get one because it is the best system for racing.

I am getting a prop valve strictly for use on the street so that my rear pads last longer.

I looked through the thread and I thought you were mounting it in the engine compartment? Were you saying that YOUR setup was adjustable or that it could be? I'm slightly confused. even so I can't see reaching to the floor or under the dash to adjust it while driving. Maybe I'm missing something?

Thanks

[cheapthrillz]

I looked through the thread and I thought you were mounting it in the engine compartment? Were you saying that YOUR setup was adjustable or that it could be? I'm slightly confused. even so I can't see reaching to the floor or under the dash to adjust it while driving. Maybe I'm missing something?

Thanks

Tilton sells a remote mount adjuster that can be mounted right beside the prop valve adjuster in the interior in an easily accessible location.

My system is no where near completed, nor the car ready for any type of track event. I'm just planning as of now, while trying to get the car back on the road.

[Bjkadron]

Oh thats cool! I hadn't thought about something like that! I think you just helped me decide!