orange peel

[Ishmael]

I'm getting an education in painting, this is my second problem in as many passes. I've got orange peel.I got on the sherwin williams site which said my air pressure is too low. I had just finished reading that I shouldn't have my air pressure above a certain level so I tried turning it down only to find out low pressure causes orange peel. Oh well, no more fish eyes. Anyway, do I have to sand down my dash or can I paint over it seeing as it was going to get 3 coats of black before the clear? Or is this going to be too many coats?

[LateNight72]

If one coat orange peeled, it will show through all the way to the last coat of clear, IMHO. That doesn't mean you couldn't bury it with a bunch of clear and wetsand it slick.

[Throttle]

It is impossible to spray basecoat/clearcoat and not have orange peel.. If you want you can sand it between the base and clear or you can wetsand it after you clear it.. I dont like sanding in between caots, some many things can go wrong..

[Ishmael]

Good to know. I put on a second coat with higher pressure and it looks a bit better. I'll try sanding it before clearing it then buff it after clear. Its urethane. Any suggestions for the rest of this procedure?

[Throttle]

Leave atleast 15 min between coats or it will solvant pop on ya..

[LateNight72]

Don't sand the BC!!





(unless you want to put more BC on)

[Ishmael]

OK, Just to make things clear the paint is Duplicolor Paint Shop. I believe that's laquer. So I shouldn't sand the black? I should clear it and then buff it? If I have 3 or 4 coats of black, should I be able to sand that? Forgive me if this is a double post. I thought I responded yesterday but it doesn't seem to be up.
Thanks again,
Scott

[PRRC]

There are a lot of factors that come into play when painting. First and formost will be quality of the gun you are using. other factors are distance from the object you are painting. to close and you will be dumping to much material on the panel and will cause a host of problems. to far away and it will also cause problems. a solid color for the dash should not be much problem. as for the clear you will need it to be as slick as possible. as you wount be able to buff every piece. Gun set up is also key. and pressure at the gun. not at the regulator. a good inline filter system will get rid of any nasty fish eye problems. Heres what we use for a gun set up. Base 1.3 tip solid or metallic. gun at full line pressure . regulated at our filter system. material flow 2.5 turns out. Clear a 1.4 tip same gun set up. use a 50% overlap.

[Ishmael]

I'm using a touch up gun. It isn't at full line pressure not that my small compressor has much pressure - just enough for the gun. I should try to get someone out here who knows what they are doing just to set up the gun.
Anythoughts on sanding black after the 3rd coat?

[PRRC]

We are not running full line pressue to the gun. We run 40 PSI at the gun. We use an Iwata W400 one for base and the other for clear. We never mix the guns.A touch up gun will not spray as nice of a pattern as a regular gun. But if thats what you have then thats ok. sanding any color is the same We cut with 800, then 1000,1500,2000 then buff with a white foam pad(the most agressive) then a swirl mark pad black then blue as a final buff. Its really all in the sanding that makes for a nice panel. switch your sanding pattern when you change grits of paper. It will help identify if the 1000 grit paper is removing the 800 scratches. change paper = change direction.

[LateNight72]

I'm using a touch up gun. It isn't at full line pressure not that my small compressor has much pressure - just enough for the gun. I should try to get someone out here who knows what they are doing just to set up the gun.
Anythoughts on sanding black after the 3rd coat?

Since it is a lacquer you'll be fine to sand the BC (which is actually a top coat), just respray some more on it before you clear it.

[Ishmael]

Thanks for the info guys. I don't get much free time this time of year and this dash is taking me way too much time.

[Paint God]

Orange peel is caused by big droplets of paint coming out of the gun. The smaller you can get those particles the smoother it will collect on the surface. This is called atomization.

It is possible to get it flat without orange peel. You just need to atomize it a bunch. This is not real good for completes because to atomize it that much you are usually waisting a ton of paint and you are going to polish it anyway. When I spray things that are hard to polish (frames, motorcycle frames, small parts, engine blocks, DASHES, inside of door jambs and trunks, etc) I just atomize the hell out of it so I dont need to polish it. These areas usually dont need a bunch or paint anyway.

Increasing the air pressure will increase atomization (smaller particles).

You can also decrease the material (there should be a material adjustment to limit the trigger, or you can just pull the trigger back less) and this will do the same thing but allow you more control.

You can also add reducer. This will chemically break the particles down which will cause better atomization. The thing you need to be careful of is die-back (dull finish once dry) and solvent pop when reducing. The product you are using will tell you what your limits are. I have found that you can go outside of those limits. Just experiment on something else first.

My favorite way to do it is to heat it up (especially with Lacquer). This is the best of all worlds. You dont risk the die back or solvent pop problem because you dont increase the reduction. As a matter of fact I under-reduce it a bit. I place the paint in a metal can (an old coffee can sits on my paint bench for this very reason) and place it on a cheap hot plate. Dont over due it, You are looking for around 120-140 degrees. Then drop it in the gun and run!!!!!!

It is fun to spray completes this way!!!!!!!

[Ishmael]

Cool. Thanks for all the tips guys. I've got a little campbell hausfeld 8 gallon compressor and I think it just makes the minimum pressure for the gun. I ran it wide open last time and had better luck. I'll try heating the laquer a bit while turning down the mix just a tad for the (hopefully) last coat. Then its on to clear.

[JRouche]

Orange peel is caused by big droplets of paint coming out of the gun. The smaller you can get those particles the smoother it will collect on the surface. This is called atomization.

It is possible to get it flat without orange peel. You just need to atomize it a bunch. This is not real good for completes because to atomize it that much you are usually waisting a ton of paint and you are going to polish it anyway. When I spray things that are hard to polish (frames, motorcycle frames, small parts, engine blocks, DASHES, inside of door jambs and trunks, etc) I just atomize the hell out of it so I dont need to polish it. These areas usually dont need a bunch or paint anyway.

Increasing the air pressure will increase atomization (smaller particles).

You can also decrease the material (there should be a material adjustment to limit the trigger, or you can just pull the trigger back less) and this will do the same thing but allow you more control.

You can also add reducer. This will chemically break the particles down which will cause better atomization. The thing you need to be careful of is die-back (dull finish once dry) and solvent pop when reducing. The product you are using will tell you what your limits are. I have found that you can go outside of those limits. Just experiment on something else first.

My favorite way to do it is to heat it up (especially with Lacquer). This is the best of all worlds. You dont risk the die back or solvent pop problem because you dont increase the reduction. As a matter of fact I under-reduce it a bit. I place the paint in a metal can (an old coffee can sits on my paint bench for this very reason) and place it on a cheap hot plate. Dont over due it, You are looking for around 120-140 degrees. Then drop it in the gun and run!!!!!!

It is fun to spray completes this way!!!!!!!

Geeze.. Isint it great to have guys like this here. You just got a schooling on painting, free of charge.. Umm, save this for future reference, its all good info..

Basically the paint will lay down to a certain extent. If it is sprayed with large droplets and is kinda thick it will make puddles, orange peel. So you bump up the air pressure and narrow the needle (careful, dry painting), smaller droplets, they dont puddle. They fill each area. But the higher pressure makes alot of the paint bounce off the panel as waste.. But for a small panel like a dash its not a deal breaker.

And like he said. More solvent in the paint to thin it out makes it lay down after the shoot. So you keep the needle open and shoot a large volume knowing it will flatten out. But be careful there, you will dilute the color coat and it will run. The temp and humidity for the shoot will dictate how much you can thin the paint out. Just a touch of reducer.

But with a small project like the dash go for a little waste and dont thin it out, just bump up the air pressure and almost fog it on. Really, get the droplets small so they flow into each other. But careful, dont wanna dry paint it either. Too much air and not enough paint. Open up the needle for the extra flow of air.

Test cardboard works well to set the gun up. I like the shiny construction paper cause I dont have enough extra metal laying around. Cardboard, like from boxes is really absorbent so its not a good indicator. The semi glossy construction paper you see at the the art stores works well, it has a similar surface as a piece of primed steel..

For the small panels shoot it on with a pretty high volume and higher pressure. Dont dwell, and dont go over the panel before the flash period. Let it settle out (flatten).

But really, PG has all you need for advise, good advice... JR

[Ishmael]

I added this to my favourites.