2nd Gen Spindle/Hub Options

[jeffandre]

I will be running 19" wheels up front on my 71 Camaro and would like to know what spindle/hub options I have to give me the best bearing setup (aren't larger bearings better?).



I will be using stock steering components, stock dimension control arms, possibly taller upper ball joints, and custom front brakes so the caliper mounting setup is no big deal, I will have to do some form of custom bracket anyway.

Also the wheels have not been ordered yet so the affects of backspacing due to the spindle measurements and hub thickness are no problem either. Thanks in advance for any advice/help anybody can provide,

[dennis68]

Short of going to a wide 5 set-up the Impala hubs use the biggest of the conventional bearings I beleive.

[Q ship]

Jeff, the Camaro spindles run A6 inner and A2 outer bearings-the outer bearing I.D is 0.750". '81 and up B-body (Caprice) spindles use A6/A3 bearings, the outer I.D is 0.850". The Caprice spindles will bolt right up. The Caprice spindles come in two flavors, for 11" or 12" brakes-for what you're gonna do, it probably doesn't matter, but I had a both when I did my C5 brakes and the 12" set had better mounting points for the adapters.

I know the roundy round racers use a lot of 2nd gen front components, maybe a look through Speedways catalog would be in order?

Light duty C10's use the A6/A3 combo, so they can take a decent amount of abuse and weight.

All the bearing numbers are BCA, by the way-I couldn't find consistent coverage from ACDelco. ACD numbers for a Caprice are S6 inner and S7 outer.

For hubs you could use the '89-'90 1LE rotors, they use the big bearings and have the 4.75x5 bolt circle. I used to have a set....

[Lowend]

Here ya go
http://www.nastyz28.com/2gcog/brake12.html
These use a larger bearing than the F-body spindle. Bigger rotors to boot

[jeffandre]

I will check Speedway catalog I have. The other options sound great too, gotta go look for the parts and prices! I'll print this and the Nastyz28 stuff for reference.

[jeffandre]

Here's what I found so far, so correct me if I am missing something. The 79-81 Camaro's used A6/A3 bearings also, so I may get a set of these and bolt them right up to my 71 (still not sure if I need the taller upper ball joints yet). Is the best part of the B-body 12" brake spindle the fact that the caliper mounting points are further out? I still need to check Speedway for their parts...

I can get 1LE rotors for about $35 each, so that's no problem.

Let me know what you guys think...

[SHANE 73Z]

Jeff,

The Caprice and Late 2G Camaro stuff that use A6/A3 bearing combo. If you are thinking of machining a 1-piecee rotor into a hub the standard 3rd gen Camaro rotor has a shorter "joe" dimension. This means the wheel mounting face is set further in towards the spindle than the 1LE, Caprice, and 2G camaro rotors and allows room for a hat or rotor without messing up wheel offset.

Coleman makes both aluminum and steel hubs that fit the A6/A3 combo.

Another thing most people dont realize is the only difference in the A2/A3 outer bearings is the inside diameter where the rollers ride on the spindle. The outer race (that presses into the hub) is actually the same for A2/A3 bearings.

Shane

[MrQuick]

Wow great info Shane, you've been doing your homework...A+.
Now the Coleman hubs, do they offer a preferable "Joe" too?

[jeffandre]

Jeff,

The Caprice and Late 2G Camaro stuff that use A6/A3 bearing combo. If you are thinking of machining a 1-piecee rotor into a hub the standard 3rd gen Camaro rotor has a shorter "joe" dimension. This means the wheel mounting face is set further in towards the spindle than the 1LE, Caprice, and 2G camaro rotors and allows room for a hat or rotor without messing up wheel offset.

Coleman makes both aluminum and steel hubs that fit the A6/A3 combo.

Another thing most people dont realize is the only difference in the A2/A3 outer bearings is the inside diameter where the rollers ride on the spindle. The outer race (that presses into the hub) is actually the same for A2/A3 bearings.

Shane

Thanks Shane,
I will have to check out the Coleman hub options and see how their dimensions match up to the other hub options we have been discussing. I have not had the wheels made yet so the backspacing is not set in stone.

What is it about the A3 bearing that makes it better? I will have 295's+ up front for autocross and road racing, so I would like the better bearing if it is worth going to the trouble to change spindles. I will have to make or buy hubs anyway for my brake setup so that is not the issue, just the spindle/bearing setup.

[SHANE 73Z]

Just thinking out loud now,

The differences in the bearings:

With the A3 spindle there is more material at the snout of the spindle itself so there would be better heat dissipation from the bearing. But conversely because the A2/A3 uses the same bearing race that would mean the rollers in the A3 have to be smaller than the A2. I think this also slows the speed of the rollers in the bearing for a given wheel speed. Dont know what all of this means as far as the strength of the bearing but these are just some off the cuff observations.

I dont know the "joe" dimensions on the coleman hubs. I do know Andrewb70 is running the steel ones with his front brake kit. Most of the Coleman stuff is for the roundy-round crowd so I think most have a 5 on 5" bolt pattern (with 5/8" studs!) so you may have to have them custom drilled if you go this route.

There are tons of other options too. Vette Brakes makes an aluminum hub that you can bolt a rotor to the backside of, kinda like a Wilwood hub but one piece instead of multiple. I believe this hub has a stock 2G joe dimension.

Touring Classics will be releasing a 2G/C5 kit that has an aluminum hub with a reduced joe dimension to make up the difference for the C5 rotor and they assure me all of the parts will be available separately.

I have been researching all of this stuff because of my want for a nice road race worthy brake setup which cannot be bought off the shelf from most popular vendors.

Take care,
Shane

Take care,
Shane

[yody]

yes, the third gen hubs are skinnier, which is why everyone uses them for the C5 conversion, with the hat rotor the backspacking on the wheel stays the same. I have some aluminum hubs on mine that are from 6061, i think i paid $200 without studs or bearings. Jeff if you plan on using a 295 remember that tire has a lot of sidewall on it, i actually have 2 sets of those on on my rear rims and another laying around if you need them for mock up. Don't know how it will look with such a tall sidewall in the front. I also have an extra set of ccw 505as 19x10 sitting in teh garage, i am thinking of eventually putting them on the front, but haven't messed with it yet, not sure how it will look with 295's on all 4 corners.

[jeffandre]

Just thinking out loud now,

The differences in the bearings:

With the A3 spindle there is more material at the snout of the spindle itself so there would be better heat dissipation from the bearing. But conversely because the A2/A3 uses the same bearing race that would mean the rollers in the A3 have to be smaller than the A2. I think this also slows the speed of the rollers in the bearing for a given wheel speed. Dont know what all of this means as far as the strength of the bearing but these are just some off the cuff observations.

Touring Classics will be releasing a 2G/C5 kit that has an aluminum hub with a reduced joe dimension to make up the difference for the C5 rotor and they assure me all of the parts will be available separately.

Take care,
Shane

I have checked the Coleman and VB products, would likely make a hub out of a 3rd Gen rotor first to get the size and stud setup without costing $400+. I will keep my eyes open for the Touring Classics stuff, but if a good deal comes up for a 3rd Gen rotor setup I will probably take it. Thanks again for the info,

[jeffandre]

yes, the third gen hubs are skinnier, which is why everyone uses them for the C5 conversion, with the hat rotor the backspacking on the wheel stays the same. I have some aluminum hubs on mine that are from 6061, i think i paid $200 without studs or bearings. Jeff if you plan on using a 295 remember that tire has a lot of sidewall on it, i actually have 2 sets of those on on my rear rims and another laying around if you need them for mock up. Don't know how it will look with such a tall sidewall in the front. I also have an extra set of ccw 505as 19x10 sitting in teh garage, i am thinking of eventually putting them on the front, but haven't messed with it yet, not sure how it will look with 295's on all 4 corners.

Cody,
I think it would be killer to have the same all around, rotation and tuning would be cool too, but you would have to nail the fitment. I'll give you a call in a few weeks, I would defintely be interested in mockup stuff, maybe April or May? Where did you get your aluminum hubs? Yeah the tire is 27" diameter, which will be okay when matched up against the rears and it has the same basic sidewall amount as the 275/40/17's I used to have, just a total diameter of 2" more. It might be too tight up there for a tire that tall??? Hopefully I can try one of yours for fitment. I have a 17x9.5 with a 255 tire on it for basic mockup, but I will have to add material to it (cardboard/wood/whatever) to get it to the diameter of the intended tire.