Creativity Is Dead

[seekins]

I have turned down many sales from overseas. I wont sell to someone that sounds like they will copy it. Patents only protect you as deep as your pockets allow and most that will steal wont care anyway because they know it.



Best thing to do is flood the market with your product, price it fairly and have the best customer service possible. Its a small world...

[trapin]

This is a good thread for anyone who aspires to get into the aftermarket parts business. Be prepared for it. It comes with the job, unfortunately.

[Damn True]

Two out of the last three companies I have worked for had/have significant problems with protection of intellectual property. It usually goes like this:

Sell product "x" to customer in China or Korea.
Discover service requests exceed the number of actual purchased units meaning they have reverse engineered and copied products, deployed them, then requested that we service the copied units.
Then discover identical products or significant feature sets being sold by overseas competitors.

Heck, just last month China had the gaul to publicly get their shorts in a wad about pirate copies of Windows failing:

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5...ksjILmn66gIjbg


At the end of the day, ripping off someone else's product is weak....very weak.

[ProdigyCustoms]

I can see the frustration Steve. We have it happen building cars to.

I met a guy at the show that introduced himself, propositioned me, and his business was to take stuff to China and have it reverse engineered. He pointed out a few things on Larry's car we could copy. It sounds like he just walks down the street holding up the part and screaming..

Anyone build one of these?

I threw his card away.

What really sucks though is when it happens right here in the good ole USA right in your face, with no shame.

[twosaturns]

What really sucks though is when it happens right here in the good ole USA right in your face, with no shame.

that's the point. the USA is the largest market in the world. the counterfeiters only succeed because people buy it. because WE buy it. we live in a walmart controlled society. people want cheap stuff that looks good. the majority are ignorant/not well informed; you put a $90 American made item for sale next to a $30 imported item that looks similar, which will the majority buy?
it's in every industry. I worked in professional bicycle shops for 15 years. usually, the cheapest bike in a shop is around $300. most common comment? "I can buy THE SAME THING in walmart for $100!" the ignorant masses can't honestly tell the difference between a full suspension $1500 enthusiast level mtn bike and a look-a-like 50lb lump in a dept store.
to sum up: the knock-offs will stop when people stop buying them.

[barraza]

.....It usually goes like this:

Sell product "x" to customer in China or Korea.
Discover service requests exceed the number of actual purchased units meaning they have reverse engineered and copied products, deployed them, then requested that we service the copied units.
Then discover identical products or significant feature sets being sold by overseas competitors.

It's been going on for lots of years. I even have heard of Chinese factories that get manufacturing contracts to build products, then run the factory extra shifts to make the same products for sale on the counterfit market. Exact product but cutting the owner out of sales.

For years Zippo lighters has had a large part of their lighters returned for warranty work turn out to be counterfit. Their problem is they have a lifetime warranty!!!

[Nine Ball]

I visited the Fesler booth without a buyer badge. They do not know me personally, but they answered my questions just fine. I'd buy products from them, based on what I saw.

As for creativity being dead, this is nothing new to any industry. Every popular product has had an attempt to be redone better and cheaper.

[zbugger]

... Every popular product has had an attempt to be redone better and cheaper.

Too bad that's not true with gas...

[Fesler built]

I visited the Fesler booth without a buyer badge. They do not know me personally, but they answered my questions just fine. I'd buy products from them, based on what I saw.

As for creativity being dead, this is nothing new to any industry. Every popular product has had an attempt to be redone better and cheaper.

Thanks Nine Ball its just more of the people trying to start stuff and if they or you were at the show you know how we treated people. Now if you were another manufacture its a different story all together.

[Otto-813]

Just a thought, get the thread back on topic.

[Damn True]

Just a thought, get the thread back on topic.

Hey, great idea!

[Fesler built]

X2 X2 X2

[Damn True]

cool

[BMF Machine]

I think this thread may be pointless? Creativity is no were near dead. I was at SEMA in 2005 when twist won product of the year for the shrifter......I felt like that was extremely creative. TwisT is always coming up with new stuff and it is always extremely creative.

Fesler is coming out with extremely creative stuff all the time as well. Marquez die casts their taillights, from what I have seen, Feslers are machined, from what I have seen. I would pay extra for the machined ones in a heartbeat. I would buy Marquez interior panels in a heart beat? Ring makes an awsome hood hinge for two or three types of cars. But they concentrate on building killer cars. Fesler makes hood hinges and trunk hinges for many different applications. Their shops seem relatively huge? They are going to keep on making cool stuff and wicked RideS. Falling asleep and coasting on what your making does not equal progress. Fesler must spend a ton of time trying to make these hinges work on so many different rides. He should be appreciated for it. I already know twist can't stop imagining; look at his hair, he is like Albert Einstien of trick parts! I also know Twist and Fessler have a thousand different headaches trying to succeed in such a flooded market place. That is why I went back to work for someone else. I get paid to take a crap there, plus I can use their toilet paper. Hell with bennefits like that I can not afford to use my own toilet?

So, while some peoples creativity has stalled, I am sure others will continue to thrive! Remember it is BUISNESS! Nobody gives a rats ass if other manufacturers like them are not? They are runing a buisness and trying to succeed. The customer is who they are trying to impress and make happy. It is not easy, not easy at all.

JMO? Creativity is alive and well!

[camcojb]

Marquez die casts their taillights, from what I have seen, Feslers are machined, from what I have seen.

Marquez stuff is all billet, not sure why people think it's cast.

Jody

[96Z28SS]

Marquez stuff is all billet, not sure why people think it's cast.

Jody

I think people think that cause of the 67-68 tail lights they have a cast finish. Its all billet but is then media blasted in the center to give it that cast look.

Thats what i think people get it from.

[BMF Machine]

Cast aluminum can be called "Billet" Actually a casted aluminum part is called a billet. Are they machined from T-6061 Alumn. Or is it a billet cast. It is like the cheap plain billet valve covers at jegs.... They are called billet covers and they are a billet diecasted cover not flat, and do not polish well. Wegner calls their valve covers billet; but they are machine from T-6061 which in it's raw form is billet. After machining it is artwork. I have seen the back side of Feslers and you can see the machine marks, so they are produced on a CNC, very flat and extremely easy to keep polished. I could be wrong on Marquez, but I believe they are not machined in any way shape or form. Correct me if they are. Does Marquez own a CNC shop where they produce their taillights? If so, why can they not change the design up and keep it fresh? Diecasting "Molds" are not cheap nor can they be easily modified. They can produce a ton of nice looking parts in a fraction of the cost of machining the same part. But being a machinist, that is what I appreciate the most....Machining. Whether it is a valve cover, or tailights or emblems on the side of cars. Marquezs 502 and 572....emblems are dicasted and look great. I figured they use the same process on the tailights or they would have a wide variety of styles and more options for other cars? Either way Fessler did not steal an idea? I do not believe Marquez was the first to produce a taillight? Nor was Ring the first to produce a hood hinge? All these companies offer similar yet different parts that essentially do the same thing. Fesler just has a larger variety is all I was really getting at; I guess? But I would love to know Marquez's manufacturing process, I will stand corrected and apologize. I am not stepping on toes or ruffleing feathers. Fact... Diecastings are still Billets and Buisness is BUISNESS and Creativity is not DeaD! I saw Marquez Tail lights on Prodigy in 2005 at SEMA. They looked to be diecasted billets. I have 25 years experience in machining, I hope I can tell the difference if anyone can. They looked good, but I believe Feslers LooK better?JMO; I have made molds, dies, diecasting molds, space shuttle parts.......and a few one off shiznit that nobody would try to duplicate because of time it takes to run something one time. I basically gave the parts away and spent more money to frame the magazines that the cars appeared in? The wall hanging just sit on a futon in my basement office collecting dust. They just remind me that I too, can do anything I want, when I feel like it and make a customer very happy.
Sorry if I upset someone? That is why I put the disclaimer of Just my opinion (JMO)

There really is no need to argue, it's just obvious that Creativity is not dead. Nor will it ever die.

Look at Bruning Auto Design, that is one of the most creative people I have ever seen in my life; and I feel he is just getting started! Not literally but I believe he has a hell of alot of tricks up his sleeve to make some wild one off parts!

And I am not people? I am Kevin. I met the Marquez brothers as well that year(05). They did ask me how I made Prodigies air breather. I said from a 15X15x.5 thick piece of T-6061, about 80 hours on featurecam and looking at logos on-line and basically free handing with my software. I told them about 110+hours in that breather cover. They had no more questions after that. I took them asking as a compliment. They seemed very cool. I paid more for my Prodigy Magazine wall hanging than I charged Frank fo the 5 parts I made for Michaels KilleR RidE. I just wanted to be famous for a day and see if I really could impress with the best. I met and exceeded all my expectations.

[skatinjay27]

Marquez stuff is all billet, not sure why people think it's cast.

Jody

x2...
i like chris and his shop... they build bad ass cars with top shelf quality work no doubt.
yes they make billet hood hinges for many application which NO ONE does... they plan to make plenty billet parts for cars other than camaros which is awesome that someones willing to make trick billet parts for non-camaros cause there is a market for it.
BUT regardless of the exuses or lies. if your a dealer for a company and they come out with parts that are identical to the T that just wrong... people that make the commet they dont mind a company useing a product and a base then making it better and more affordable and agree to a point... but how a marquez's parts being improved??? they are identical except for the name on them. and thats the truth regardless of what anyone says. in my opinion its just a greedy move if your already a dealer for someone and decide to copy thier parts and "make" them your own.


on another note sorry you had to miss the optima challege steveo...
but i completly understand your want to get back to your baby!!! i cant even go 2-3 day.lol

[YancyJohns]

Steve,
All I have to say is your new gauge bezels were BAD *SS. Great innovation. Your bezels,Tiger roll cage and Motorsport Hero wide camera were my favorites.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

now HOW long have i been on here complaining about Biters... thieves... and copycats..


GET YOUR OWN shizz...