Titanium wheels

[jp455]

Hi all...been a while since I've posted. Been busy with a street going supercar of which by the way I'll post more updated pictures in that thread.

Anyway...for my own curiosity, are there any titanium wheels made? Would it be benefitial in any way? I mean, Ti is more "flexible" than Al or steel...so if the wheels have to be made thicker to make them as stiff they might end up weighing the same as a mag wheel or even an Al wheel. Any thoughts?

[wiedemab]

According to

http://www.matweb.com/search/DataShe...83d77a6&ckck=1

Titanium's density is around 4.65 g/cc

http://www.matweb.com/search/DataShe...c7777d9e10be5b

6061-T6 Aluminum's density is 2.70 g/cc

I'm not sure the cost increase and/or the strength increase would be worth it given it's properties and the application. I'm sure if it made sense some race teams - ie: F1 would be doing it. I'm not aware that they are.

[MarkM66]

I remember years ago Colorado Customs was building Ti wheels. I have not idea what they were charging for them.

[jp455]

That is a very valid point...if they had some sort of benefit the F1 teams would be using them, or the Le Mans teams. I guess I'll try putting an existing wheel design through some fea tests modeling the wheel in Ti.

Thanks guys!

[BADNBLK]

I remember years ago Colorado Customs was building Ti wheels. I have not idea what they were charging for them.

Those Colorado Custom wheels just had Ti inserts, put in the wheel faces, and they charged a ton for it!!

[jp455]

I think CCW has an option to use Ti bolts on their 3 piece stuff...not sure if they still offer it though.

[CarlC]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Did I mention....

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

That does not include if you can even readily aquire a billet large enough to machine, and the special tooling requirements, and the huge amount of machining time...... Yikes.

[Apogee]

If it's good enough for Boeing, why not us? Oh yeah, that's right...because it would cost a bajillion dollars and still not be as light or strong as a carbon fiber composite wheel.

Ti has it's uses but wheels are not near the top of the list. Considering it's right between steel and aluminum with respect to weight and absolute strength really isn't it's strong point either...it's tends to be the toughness, fatigue resistance, and corrosion resistance of Ti alloys that are most notable.

Even though I have no idea what I'd do with them, I always drool when I drive by Oremet's stock yard in Albany, OR with the big'ol billets of Ti sitting there.

Tobin

[68sixspeed]

better choices--- Magnesium; (remember real "mag" wheels); c5 corvettes even had them as an option. Not cheap though, on the vettes the option was 2-3k depending on the year. 2/3 the weight of aluminum- 1.738 g·cm3

[jp455]

Yeah...I didn't really think it through too much, just one of those spontaneous what if thoughts. The whole thing came about though because I DID find a place that sells titanium blocks...from there I just let my mind wander!

[68Formula]

How about carbon fiber?

[blown9746]

they do carbon fiber on motorcycles

[go-fish]

Carbon fiber wheels are definately not street whels. Recommended track use only.
Also they are recommended to only be used a few seasons if ran a full season.
I would imagine the lifespan would be shorter for auto app's. Why not just go with Kenisis or Fikse?
If you are trully wanting something nobody has go with the Hot Wheels from American Racing. Nobody has those LOL

[Steve1968LS2]

I think CCW has an option to use Ti bolts on their 3 piece stuff...not sure if they still offer it though.

I have Ti bolts on my Forgelines.. knocks a pound or so off each wheel.

But mostly it's just cool to say I have someting made of Ti on my car... lol

Lots of race parts are Ti.. yokes, bellhousings, etc.

[blown9746]

Carbon fiber wheels are definately not street whels. Recommended track use only.

Well there are a lot of things (especially for bikes) that are listed as not for street use (pretty much any aftermarket exhausts). There are plenty of people that do run cf wheels such as bst or dymag on street bikes. Too rich for my blood though. I agree an auto application would probably not work though

[jp455]

Well, by now we agree that they are not for our cars, but what about for an application that needs something super tough and not necessarily the lightest weight. Something like say a baja 1000 truck? Then again, I guess its sort of the same argument, if they needed them they would be using them by now. Or maybe the cost/benefit ratio is just not justifiable.

[bbcc]

Just doing a quick flip through one of my books and I see that most Ti alloys are fairly strong. When compared to say, AISI 4140 OQT900, the two have similar yeild and ultimate strenghts. The density between the two isn't even close. The steel is almost twice as heavy per cubic in. as the Ti. The percent elongation is fairly close between most steels and Ti alloys. Like a few of these guys have said, it comes down to cost. Titanuim is about $40/lb and steel is about $9/lb (old figures from 2006). Titanium alloys suck to machine, and is expensive/freaking hard to cast. So, overall, steel looks to be the better choice for most parts. The best thing Ti has going for it is it's low density. Strength of steel + lightweight = costs an arm and a leg. Aluminum on the other hand, is almost half the weight of titanium. It is super easy to machine or cast, yet it has piss all for strength (compared to steel and titanium). So for a well designed aluminum wheel you could have comparable weight, good fatigue resistance, and lower cost than making a titanium wheel.

That is my amature look at the subject. Exotic metals have their uses, but why bother if another metal can do the same job, just as well, with the same weight, for cheaper.

Ryer

[CptKlutz]

Titanium has it's uses, but not for wheels. Things that must be light and strong and are for instance subjected to high temps, subject to stresses from vibration etc. Aircraft exhausts and helicopter rotor heads are good Ti application examples. Golf clubs and wheels are overkill. Magnesium alloy would be a better way to go. But look at Le Mans cars, DTM and other high $$ saloon type cars. There are probably good reasons they run aluminum. Cost/benefit/reliability...

[baz67]

I was at the work of another member here a few years ago and he had a chunk of Ti that needed to be machined that was around 20"x10". If my memory serves me he said the chunk was worth 75k. So for around 300k plus design and machine cost you can have a set.