Need help building a trailer

[Matt@RFR]

Hey guys. My Dad and I need to build a flat bed tandem trailer for hauling:

2300# race car

2500# roadster



Steel

Maybe up to a 4000# truck now and then

What I have so far is that I want to use 3x5x.120 rect tubing for the two framerails and one stringer up the middle, an A-frame front end, and probably "half" torsion bar axles.

We need help on whether or not to run brakes. If they're really a good thing to have, we've got no problem with buying them. Just don't wanna spend the money if we don't have to.

Also, have any of you had experience with walking beam suspensions?

[homerneedspeed]

brakes are worth it i've driven all around this country towing a 3300lb car on a 1700lb trailer and wouldn't want to do it without. it makes it alot easier on the driver and tow vehicle.

[68protouring454]

matt, yes do brakes, i believe it is federal law anything over 3000 lbs needs to have brakes, along with 2 axles. i really like the torsion type axles, full width ones, not sure what half ones are, they arelike 3-400 each out here with brakes, they are great cause you can keep trailer low, and be able to open doors, when car is on trailer, cause the wheel wells won't be way high, goodluck
jake

[JohnUlaszek]

I spent a fair amount of time researching and designing a torsion bar axle trailer for a military application and found the following book a real asset

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846

[myclone]

Brakes are deffinately a good thing on a trailer.

Ive done a LOT of towing and learned that trailer brakes make towing more pleasurable rather than a white knuckle experience the entire time so you can actually enjoy your time behind the wheel. Ive used everything from a home built POS trailer with no suspension or brakes to 40' enclosed trailers which tought me a few things.

1. Trailer brakes can be used to stop "sway" in heavy cross wind.
2. They can be used to hold the trailer during odd ball loading/unloading situations.
3. In a panic situation youve got enough to worry about without having to worry about a loaded trailer making things worse or harder to control.
4. Most states require brakes on trailers over a certain GVW, length, axle count, and/or all the above.
5. Should you get into an accident while towing, even if it isnt your fault, the insurance company can and very likely will come after you in court for "unsafe operation" of a vehicle to recoupe their losses if youve violated any of the applicable laws above by not having trailer brakes.
6. You can use a smaller (within reason) tow vehicle which is cheaper all around if you only tow occassionaly.
7. Those ppl that would normally bum your trailer all the time rather than buy their own cant use yours since it has brakes and requires something other than the typical "4 flat" wiring connector. The more odd ball the connector you use the better as less ppl can help themselves to a trailer you built/paid for. Voice of experience here after loaning my trailers out to "friends" only to have it come back bent/broken/mangled.

I cant really think of any down sides to having brakes other than maintenance which is negligable compared to the things most ppl around here seem to be capable of.

[Matt@RFR]

Thanks guys!

Brakes it is then. So hydraulic or electric? Discs or drums? From what I've been reading, drums should do me just fine on all four wheels...But I'm super confused about hydraulic vs. electric. The only thing that makes me dislike hydraulic is that the actuators look like they would try to apply the brakes if you were backing the trailer up a hill. Do they have lock-outs for that? How do the electric brakes work? Basically, I know nothing about trailer brakes!! I'm only building this one trailer, so I really don't want to have to do hours of reading on the subject!

I've also not been able to find a decent outlet for all these parts I'm going to need. Some places carry some stuff, and others carry the rest... I need to order fenders, tires/wheels, suspension...well, everything, so I can finish my drawing of it and get to work. Who would you reccommend?

[myclone]

Thanks guys!

Brakes it is then. So hydraulic or electric? Discs or drums? From what I've been reading, drums should do me just fine on all four wheels...But I'm super confused about hydraulic vs. electric. The only thing that makes me dislike hydraulic is that the actuators look like they would try to apply the brakes if you were backing the trailer up a hill. Do they have lock-outs for that? How do the electric brakes work? Basically, I know nothing about trailer brakes!! I'm only building this one trailer, so I really don't want to have to do hours of reading on the subject!

I've also not been able to find a decent outlet for all these parts I'm going to need. Some places carry some stuff, and others carry the rest... I need to order fenders, tires/wheels, suspension...well, everything, so I can finish my drawing of it and get to work. Who would you reccommend?

This is my personal opinion and Im sure others have diff views on the elec vs hydro brakes deal so take what I say FWIW. Both systems have their pros and cons but for me personally electrics are my favorite.

Ive used trailers with hydraulic brakes (aka "surge brakes") in the past and the thing I hated most was that to actuate them the tow vehicle has to brake first to compress the actuating mechanism in/on the trailer tongue which can be an issue for a few reasons. On newer trucks with 4whl anti lock brakes this isnt as big of an issue but on an older truck with only rear anti lock (or no anti lock at all) you can get into a panic stop situation that the front tires lock which doesnt transfer enough resistance to the tongue of the trailer to compress the surge brake mechanism. Hence the only stopping system that you have is the rear drums on the tow vehicle which is about as effective as opening the door and dragging your butt on the road. The above situation is gets worse the smaller/shorter wheel base of the tow vehicle and slick road conditions (rain). When I first started towing years ago I started with an 88 chevy short bed reg cab 2wd pick up and a ~2200lb (empty) surge brake equipped trailer which made for some VERY white knuckled panic stops and emergency manuevers around other idiot drivers. On wet roads with the above set up if I had to stop quickly the front brakes had a tendancy to lock and with all the weight behind me the skidding front tires didnt provide enough grip to cause the trailer tongue/surge brakes to apply which meant I had to be VERY good at modulating the brakes between lock up and max stopping power to get any braking help from the trailer. Modulating the brakes easy enough to do when youre planning for it but when a little ol lady pulls out in front of you or a kid on a bike darts out in front of you most everyones brain goes numb and you stand on the brakes with everything youve got and before you remember to modulate the brakes to get the trailer brakes to apply youve already ran over what you were trying to stop for. Basically in a panic situation you need all the brakes you can get taking affect RIGHT NOW not a few hundredths of a second later to make complete use of the stopping distance you have.

The surge brake systems Ive been exposed to are sorta high maint due to the springs, sliders, master cyl, etc that need servicing not to mention most if not all that stuff is mounted on the tongue of the trailer and gets pelted/covered with road crud thats kicked up by the rear tires of the tow vehicle. The surge brake trailer I owned eons ago required frequent slatherings of the mechanism by WD40 to keep all that stuff from developing what I call stiction (sticking friction) which delayed the actuation of the trailer brakes even more if I got lazy and didnt give the mechanism its monthy hosing down of lubricant. IMO that deal is just a messy, grimey, rusty, conglomeration of monkey work that was a PIA to maintain and not as effective as I liked when it was called upon to apply the trailer brakes.

Adjusting the two systems is night and day IMO. With elec brakes you can change both how quick elec brakes apply as well as how much they apply all from the drivers seat of the tow vehicle by turning a knob or two on the cotroller. With surge/fluid brakes its done by messing with heavy springs, adjusting bolts, etc while standing outside in the pouring rain/snow and probably on a night you forgot your flashlight (BTDT).

Last gripe about hydro/surge brakes... For a DIYer it would seem to me to be quite a bit easier to run a few wires than to plumb brake lines and mount the actuating system/master cyl for fluid brakes. If you can hook up a basic car stereo you can wire a trailer for lights/elec brakes in ~1/4 the time and expense it would take to plumb a trailer for the fluid braking system.

The one plus for fluid brakes that I can think of is that they are completely independant of the electrical system of the tow vehicle. Should you allow the trailer plug to become severely corroded, unplugged, or the wiring to become damaged you still have trailer brakes (hopefully) where as elec brakes become ineffective if the wiring and/or connections become compromised at some point. Granted with electrics you still have the "break away" system that you DEFFINATELY should install that will apply the brakes should the trailer become detached from the tow vehicle since it has its own battery back up but as long as the trailer is attached to the truck the brakes wont apply if only the electrical system is compromised.

For backing up I like electrics as Ive wired a switch mounted next to my controller that I can kill the power to it so they wont apply when backing up. Most newer controllers have that function built in where as you wont need an extra switch to turn it off because it functions automatically when the tow vehicle is put in reverse by by being tapped into the back up light ckt. Mines an older unit that doesnt have that function hence the need for a seperate switch to kill the power when in reverse.

Backing up a hill with surge brakes was a PIA with my old set up since there was no way to turn the trailer brakes off and if the hill was steep enough the brakes would apply really hard and the whole operation would turn into an effort in futility.

Disk vs drum.. Ill prolly get clobbered for this statement considering the site Im on but I like drums on my trailers for one reason and that would be protection of the mechanism by the drum from elements, road debri, and anything else that could get in there. Granted discs have a list why they are better than drums a mile long for an auto but for a trailer which is usually something thats forgotten about until needed drums have never let me down so far (not to mention they are cheaper all around).

Who to buy the stuff from? Even though most of their stuff isnt made in USA (which I dont like since I love my Made in USA stuff!!!) www.northerntool.com has just about anything you would need once you have the basic frame built.

HTH and sorry for the lengthy ramblings but I had some spare time to kill

[myclone]

Couple more things I forgot (lots of fee time this evening).

Electrics allow you to wire up the system so that the trailer brakes can be locked while loading/unloading. This is effective when loading/unloading in slippery conditions (ie dew on the grass) since a 2wd tow vehicles rear axle becomes unloaded and tends to skid when first pulling up on the back of the trailer. Combine slippery surfaces with an incline of some type and youve got a possible scary ride on your hands (you dont want to be in a non running car half way up on a trailer when the whole mess starts sliding down the back yard of the guy you just bought if from toward another house/trees/kids/swimming pool...trust me).

Electrics also allow you to wire the system up so that when disconnecting the trailer from the tow vehicle and the hitch refuses to let go of the ball you can lock the trailer brakes and do a few at idle reverse to drive gear selections to "jiggle" the trailer so it will let go of the ball. BTDT too.

Since Im a one man operation the above two advantages of electric brakes are a God send for me but if you will always have a bud or helper with you to keep one foot on the tow vehicles brake pedal to prevent slippery surface run aways or help shake the trailer loose from the ball then its not that important but I doubt anyone has a willing partner every single time that a trailering adventure takes place.

My .02

[woodman13]

What size trailer you planning to build? I may have missed it in all the knowledge.... I have built 9 car trailers(4 dove/beaver tail and 5 enclosed) in the last 6 years and I always use disk brakes on atleast 1 axle. When you decide the size trailer you want add 15% to it and relook at it. In my experience, you usually wish you had a bigger trailer before you wish you had a smaller trailer.

My first was a 16' dovetail car hauler, I decided this was too small(towed a longbed 4X4 to the deer lease) and built a 20' steel floor dovetail. After taking up racing, I needed something more secure for my tools and parts and built a 28' enclosed. To me that was the best size trailer and I wish I built that one to begin with....lol


Just some rambling from the sands of Iraq and too much coffee!

Good luck with your trailer build!

[bnoon]

Not sure if anyone else does this, but...

When choosing axles, go 140% over your max load so that you can tow the trailer with only 3 wheels if needed. We had an axle snap off one time (due to a bad wheel bearing) on one of our 6 place snowmobile trailers. We shifted the weight a little bit to try to make it even on all 3 wheels and we were able to still go down the highway at a reduced speed to make it back to the shop instead of being stranded on the side of the road because we had planned ahead using the 140%. I know it's a little harder shifting weight in a car trailer, but you can always shift tools around/etc to even it up if something really bad like this happens. At least you have a shot...

To make it easy, say your load is 1000 pounds with twin axles/four wheels. 140% would be 1400 pounds, 350 on each 4 wheels. Remove one wheel and you still have a 1050 pound carrying capacity for the remaining 3 wheels.

[harshman]

Matt-
I was a general manager for Fleming Trailers in Phoenix. I have a lot of experience in this and to sum it up, state law will require you to have a minimum of things on a home made trailer including lights, brakes, and so on. Go to the DMV to get info prior to building. To sum it up, yes you will be required to have brakes on at least on axle (we always had them on both axles). This will be determined by your GVW. Don’t bother on disks or hydraulics because disks will fail faster and hydraulics are going to be a legal nightmare. Simple electric drums will do fine. I’d look into Dexter brand and go with 2,500 lb to 3,000 lb with tires and wheels to fit this weight class. Any other help, PM me if you would like.

andrew

[MrQuick]

Yeah lots of good info, if your gonna build one...build a good one. I think a 22ft enclosed is nice.
Another great supply source is www.rigidhitch.com great wholesale $$ too.

[David Pozzi]

My open trailer is 24' hitch to end. This is a little long but has room up front for a tool box or to shift the car forward if needed. The other advantages are the rear of my Camaro sits just forward of the rear of the trailer. If I am backing up and hit something, the trailer hits first and the car is protected. The longer the trailer from hitch to wheels, the less pitching and sway problems you will have because the tow vehicle has more leverage and the tounge weight will be less. I've towed mine at 80mph with a half ton pickup and it's stable.

The trailer as it came had just planks over crossmembers and two 4' ramps. They bolted in place in the center rear of the trailer under the car. When I put wide wheels on my Camaro for autocross, the rear tires were wider than the frame rails, so I had to build raised runners sitting on top of the frame rails. I needed longer ramps too because the car was too low, and the trailer "bed" was now about 3" higher.

My trailer was originally built with 2 five inch channel (one on each side) for the frame, with wood planks down lengthwise for runners, plywood covered the center area in-between the runners. I added two more inner channels about 3' apart, and decked the tops of the two "runners" with step plate. Then I made two 10' ramps that slide out of the decked runners, they pull out like a drawer. The center area under the car is 4" lower with plywood. The center being 4" lower allows easier tie down hookup. The rearmost panel is removed so I can crawl under and hook up the rear tie-downs more easily . The rear of the runners has a beaver tail so the ramps are at an even lower approach/length.
5" channel is not needed with all the extra metal I added, 4" would work well and be much cheaper, or use sq tube but it's more costly. I extended the decking over the outer frame rails to wider past the frame rails and be flush with the outer edge of the fenders. Flip up hinged fenders would allow you to open the car door when on the trailer, I didn't do that one.

If you get axles a little heavier than you need, then the tires and brakes will be larger too and both tire and brake life will be greater/safer.
Electric brakes with electronic controller, do all four wheels for sure.

[BB69]

I bought my trailer about 1.5 years ago. I picked the one I did because it has some nice features. For instance, mine has a box built into the floor of the trailer at the front. I keep all my straps in this box, which has a lock on it. However, if you do this, make sure you seal it up well. Mine doesn't seal well, and the box got full of dirt and road grime. Next, mine has ramps that simply pull out. They have a spring loaded pin that holds them in, but when you pull the pin they slide right out until they stop. I don't have to pull them out from the side and then position them and lock them in place. When I'm done, I just slide them back in. Although you probably were already going to do it, paint the underside of your trailer. I can't believe how many of the major trailer makers don't paint them. I would use liberal amounts of POR 15 (or the generic brand that I buy that is identical). Spend money on the electrical connnections as well so they are weather tight. I would also build cages around the lights, or build them into the frame so they aren't as easy to break. Last thing, put a jack on the tonque that is rated higher than what you think. Sometimes, the ability to raise the fronf of trailer, while attached to tow vehicle, just another inch will mean the difference between getting the car on the trailer without scraping. The jack is much easier and convenient than having blocks of wood around.