I messed up

[Smock67]

As the title say I messed up when i painted my firebird. Theres a lot of orange peel that just wont go away, i went through to primer in a couple spots so on and so on. So basically I am going to repaint it. The entire car has already been wet sanded down with 1000. I washed it in the sun today and well lets just say it looked better in the garage. I only wanted a driver quality paint job but this isn't even there.



I rushed when i did it ( I know I know big mistake), I painted it in my garage which was taped up and what not but had a lack of space.

Basically what I am asking is since I have decided that is needs a repaint what can i do to make it come out better? Also what do i need to do before i even start painting it again. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[jy211]

are you set on painting it yourself? If not, try a place like USA paint to just have them spray the car...since the cars ready to spray, I don't see how they could charge you much.

[toxicz28]

Don't knock painting it in your garage. I've gotten more crap in paint in "state of the art" spray booths than in garages.

[Alchemist]

For me, it's a challenge to offer a prognosis without pictures to diagnose. If you cut thru to primer then you didn't apply enough topcoat material. Collision repair shops will tell you they only apply 1 or 1-1/2 coats of clearcoat. When you're doing a custom paint job, depending if you're merely applying a single topcoat color or having to apply clear over graphics, you'll need to apply at least 4 passes/coats of topcoat - clearcoat or colorcoat so you have enough dry film build to sand and polish without going thru to substrate!

It would also depend on your spraying technique. Are you the type that "mists" on paint where each pass barely covers the surface or are you a "hoser", someone that floods on the paint?

I posted this info on another forum where someone asked about orange peel and spray guns and I would like to share it with you. Perhaps it may provide some information to help you address your situation.


Alchemist


A quick discourse in paint atomization. The paint material that is atomized inside the gun and shot out onto the panel are little paint droplets. You will "always" have some level of orange peel because of the droplet effect. However you can control the level of O-peel. Initially your first "wet" coat onto the panel will determine the level of O-peel you will have after your last pass.


Orange Peel


What causes orange peel?

• paint material not reduced correctly
• not using the proper reducer for the ambient temperature
• spray gun is too far away from the panel
• improper air pressure at the spray gun
• surface may be too hot causing paint surface to dry too quickly (this can be alleviated with the proper temperature reducer up to a point!)

Now, finally about O-peel. This is the most important tip to minimize O-peel. For me, my guideline is that you must always use a slower reducer for the ambient temperature at which you will be spraying - at least 10 degrees. For example. If it is 70 degrees ambient temperature (AT), you should use a reducer specified for use at 80 degrees. If it's 80 degrees AT - then use a reducer for 90 degree temp. Anything hotter than that I would not be painting because you would have severe O-peel due to the lack of flowout.

The purpose of reducers and thinners (the term reducer, is used for enamels and urethanes, the term thinner is used for lacquers)is to keep the material wet enough to apply onto the surface of which you are painting. Thus, as per my example in the previous paragraph, if you are using a reducer of the same AT of which you will spraying, the paint material will have already started to coagulate and not flow out due to the solvent temp. The reason you need to use a much slower reducer is to keep the paint wet and to allow the droplets to level out, thus minimizing O-peel. Remember, though your AT is 70 degrees, the panel which you are painting is warmer which is why you need the slower reducer. More so, if the panel which you are spraying is under direct sunlight. In which case, the panel is too warm that when the paint droplet hits the panel it won't flow out and self-level!!!

On the opposite end, when the weather is below 60 degrees AT, you will need to use a much faster reducer. This is because the panel will be cooler than AT - of course there are variable to be taken into consideration. If AT is less than 50 degrees, you shouldn't be painting unless you really have to!!

One other note that is a cause for excessive O-peel is improper gun adjustment. If you don't have enough material output (air to paint ratio)per the air pressure you have going into the gun, you will not only produce O-peel but if you're using the wrong reducer you'll be applying paint as if you're spraying sandpaper grit and your panel could look equivalent to 36 grit sandpaper - no joke - I did that when I was teaching myself to paint!!!!

As for paint runs, usually you either have too much material per air ratio, too close to the panel and/or not moving the gun fast enough per pass.

[69keith]

I had three runs after painting my car, but I would much rather have a run than a dry spot...

[minendrews68]

Alchemist is right on. I used to do a lot of painting. Now though, I would block, wet sand the entire car until all orange peel is gone. This will do two things, 1. it will get rid of all your orange peel, and 2. it will help take out any uneven places (if done right). Be sure to let the old (new) paint cure long enough before you repaint, or when you repaint it will lift the old, then you really do have a problem. Your problem can be fixed, it will take some work, but just think of all the experience you've gained.....

[danbob67]

if not first succeed try again but this time with a little more knowledge. dont know how many cars you have painted but you probally are not gonna get the look you want the first time around it takes some practice also being that you already sprayed the car the color you want it to be you wont have to put as much color on for coverage which equals to less material and that means less peel right out of the get go less coats less texture, but of course you have to have enough to cover the primer and have some to buff off if that is the route you are going.

[Alchemist]

Blazed,

May I ask you what type of paint you used to paint your car please? Did you use lacquer (nitro or acrylic), enamel (synthetic or acrylic - with accelerator/hardner or without), urethane (acrylic or poly) or epoxy? Or whatever else you may have used. How long ago was the car painted?

Did you paint the car in single stage or 2 stage (basecoat/clearcoat)?

The reason I ask is that paints have certain characteristics you need to be aware of when doing spot or overall paint repair and it is dependent upon the type of paint employed.

Alchemist

[Smock67]

The car was painted with a urethane its 4th dimension Shermin Williams paint. The car was painted two weeks ago this monday. Its a 2 stage paint Dark tarnished metallic gray off of an 06 solstice.

Thanks everyone for the comments and suggestions. I figure from this point the paint job can only get better. This is the first car i've painted but i've done panels and what not before.

[Sparky67]

I figure from this point the paint job can only get better. This is the first car i've painted but i've done panels and what not before.

Don't get discouraged. My shell has been painted 2 times, and undercarriage twice. It does get better each time you paint. You will see flaws that you missed the time before. We had problems with the bad mix of the clear coat on the re-paint. So we had to re-sand the entire car.

Jeff

http://www.kodakgallery.com/67rscamaro

[Smock67]

Don't get discouraged. My shell has been painted 2 times, and undercarriage twice. It does get better each time you paint. You will see flaws that you missed the time before. We had problems with the bad mix of the clear coat on the re-paint. So we had to re-sand the entire car.

Jeff

http://www.kodakgallery.com/67rscamaro

Not dicouraged at all really. I don't want the paint to be perfect. The paint on my last car was show quality and i was scared to drive it. Then i went autocrossing. I have no need for a perfect paint job just something presentable. I plan to abuse the hell out of this car.

[Sparky67]

Not dicouraged at all really. I don't want the paint to be perfect. The paint on my last car was show quality and i was scared to drive it. Then i went autocrossing. I have no need for a perfect paint job just something presentable. I plan to abuse the hell out of this car.

Well, my painter has been painting cars for a little over 56 years. Most of his cars he drives, but the paint is very presentable. Things will happen to the paint that you don't plan for, so the only fix is to re-sand the car and do a re-paint. My car will be street driven, but we planned that frome the beginning.

Jeff

[Smock67]

I painted the car today and it came out great. The gunmetal looks sweet especially with no clear. The metallic flakes really make it pop. Sure looks sweet. Thanks for all your suggestions and tips guys it really payed off. I took mine time and made sure to keep the gun even and level the entire time. I decided against the clear after i had an epiphany yesterday.

Twisted Karma really is the perfect name for this project.

[Alchemist]

Blazed,

You sprayed the basecoat and decided not to apply the clearcoat?

FYI - your basecoat "requires" a clearcoat to be able to prevent the deterioration of the basecoat. The basecoat is not formulated to be applied as is and will not withstand being put to environmental exposure.

[Smock67]

Hmmmmm So what would you suggest i do now?

[David Sloan]

Hmmmmm So what would you suggest i do now?

Check with your paint rep to see how long you can go before top coating,(you have to put a clear coat on it.)
You may have to wet sand an repaint, ( did you add a cat. to the base)

i'am not really up on Shermin Williams paint.

[Alchemist]

Best to speak with your SW rep or go to the store that supplied the basecoat. Each automotive paint manufacturer has specific instructions for their basecoat paint. Some merely use reducers while others have special reducers/stabilizers/catalysts for their basecoat.

I always suggest reading the product bulletins/tech sheets for the products you will be using.

[Smock67]

Thanks for telling me guys turns out i have a 7 day allowance on applying clearcoat. So I'll be doing that tomorrow morning and i just picked up a buffer so now i'll be able to fully complete the rest of it.

Thanks Alchemist for all your help

[70LS1NOVA]

If you really liked the basecoat look, why don't you consider a flattening agent in your clear and do away with the shine? It seems to be the rage these days.