Head Gaskets?

[RSX302]

I find that many companies seem to have the better head gasket. Being that I haven't had to replace too many (good thing I guess) most of my experience has been with Felpro stuff.

I’m currently running the Felpro MLS on a steel block/aluminum head engine that developed a small coolant leak to #7 cylinder. I was told that these particular gaskets have an issue with water sealing due to the different expansion rates of the metals. I can understand the why, but I’m not to sure if I buy into it because I think Felpro would have figured this into there products in this day and age.

I’m currently leaning toward the SCE Titan as the replacement but wanted to get your experiences before settling.

Thx in advance for your input



Ron

[molyorange 77]

Ron, From my personal experience I had always used Fel-pro and swore by them. But on my boosted engine they would not hold up when boost got over 19psi. My builder suggested the SCE titan and head studs and never had anymore problems and we even bumped up the boost to a MAX 24psi. I was at the end of my rope when I had all of the head gasket problems not to mention the $200 price tag for them, But I had no choice we had to try something and the last I heard the motor is still running at 20+psi. So I say use them and I would even use them on a naturally aspirated engine. Hope this helps. Robert

[Blown353]

I really like MLS gaskets. OEM's use them almost all the time now, even in iron/aluminum applications. The differential expansion rates are not a problem if everything was prepped properly. Case in point: OEM's are usually MLS steel shim gaskets with aluminum blocks & cylinder heads without any problems.

If the block & head prep are done correctly the MLS gaskets are usually bulletproof... and I think your problem lies there.

If you now have a leak chances are there is another problem... either flatness or surface finish. My hunch would be surface finish. If it's too rough the constant differential expansion rates of all the metals will act like a saw and eventually slice away the sealing layer of viton on the outer layers of the MLS gaskets resulting in a coolant leak. The surface finish and flatness requirements for an MLS gasket installation are much more stringent than with standard style head gaskets. My experience has been that many machine shops cannot adequately finish the deck & head surfaces to seal reliably with MLS gaskets. They either have old & worn decking equipment, use the wrong cutters, or lack the knowhow and use the wrong feeds & speeds.

The SCE titan gaskets do look interesting, unfortunately I have had no experience with them. I have had experience with copper headgaskets in the past and they are a finicky SOB. SCE seems to have addressed the main problem with them though which is water sealing by adding additional beads of sealing material. Most guys spray copper head gaskets with copper based form-a-gasket prior to installation to help in coolant sealing.

[HILROD]

I have the SCE Titans on my Camaro. They still seep coolant just ever so slightly when warming up. Never into the motor just a few small tracks down the block. Not as bad as plain copper ones. Had I known and used Hylomar with them I think they'd be perfect.

[RSX302]

Thanks guy's very much...appreciate the input.

I'm running 1/2" ARP studs and the AFR Heads checked in true with a 20ra finish.

I still need to check the block deck flatness and ra. I'm sure the flatness is ok, but you may have a point with finish on this side. SCE states they need better then 50ra. At a glance, the block deck has nice thick mill marks, but I'm not sure if its worse then 50ra. I will check it this weekend. The mill marks go directly from the water port to the cylinder, so I think it's a very good possibility. If it is worse then 50ra, I will check with SCE to see what they suggest. I'm not familiar with Hylomar, but I'll check it out.

Thanks again for everyone's input. I really don't want to do this again.

[RSX302]

Yes...I do know about Hylomar...what a DOMAS I am...I hate getting old

[HILROD]

SCE now has the Titans with an O-ring built in. I don't need them, my block is O-ringed. They'd seem to work great with bigger boost. Also SCE recomends Hylomar with standard copper gaskets, which I've used, the instructions said to install the Titans dry. That's what I get for reading!

[66chad]

I have the titan head gasket and have had no problem with up to 22 psi.

[MonzaRacer]

Another trick for al/fe head block combo is to add some insurance and get a package of the coolant tabs from a GM dealer(specificly caddy) and use then religiously.
I have been using Cometic MLS for a while and have less isue with them over Felpro and MLS wants a finer RMS finish on the head/block.

[RSX302]

Right on guy's!!! great info...much appreciated!

HILROD - I was looking at the new SCE Titan with the built in O-ring. SCE told me if I was staying under 20psi, I would be good without the o-ring. With the impellers I currently have in the turbos, I won’t be able to produce more then 20psi anyway. I’m currently running around 13 psi with a 10 psi spring on pump gas, but plan on putting the 15 psi spring in and bumping to 100 oct. I’m thinking I’ll use Hylomar just as an insurance policy.

IMO, I’m thinking boost might not be a good reference to go by. Since hp is based off of major amounts of compression, I would think a horsepower per cube number would be more accurate to go by? The only reason I think that is because 20psi of boost with 7:1 cr is going to be less hp then 20 psi boost with a 9:1 cr

66Chad - With 22psi boost, what hp/ci are you running?

I figure I’m running about 2.5hp/ci. Which is peanut’s compared to the king of horsepower!! Did you see Kenny Duttweiler’s record horsepower 286 sbc on SCE’s website? (1833hp @ 9300rpm w/43psi boost) 6.4 hp/ci. Absolutely amazing…I can’t believe it held together http://www.scegasketsonline.com/news/page.php?id=13

MazdaRacer – That’s good to know about the finer finish with MLS’s. By chance, do you know what the finish ra number is? More so as a reference, so when I check the finish this weekend, I’ll know if that was/could have been the problem.

[1969CamaroRS]

I have always like the Fel-pro gaskets, used them exclusively on my motor.

[66chad]

Ronracer - its a 406sbc the boost went down to I think 18-20psi with intercooler. Two days ago lost my clutch on the dyno the tuner thinks it will be good for 700-800 rwhp. I just listed some engine specs. on the manual transmission tread. I did run it for 2 months with alot of boost but never went to the dyno.

Remember if you go with the Titans to follow the specs. on torqueing the heads again after starting and warming the motor up.

[RSX302]

Head gasket update---

Installed the Cometic MLS gaskets with Permatex High Tack Gasket Sealer last year and still running strong. I ended up with better then 20ra on both block and heads. Bulletproof? so far so good...It made it thru the hard day in Nevada (Ultimate Street Car Invitational), I hope I didn't just jinks it... I've heard that the Permatex is the stuff to make this set-up bulletproof along with the low ra and 1/2" studs for the Ford 10 bolt. Well nothing is bulletproof!! LOL

[MonzaRacer]

Well the fact is all the new engines are looking for nearly mirror smooth surface, if I remember it was 8to 12ra for most Ford alum. head to cast block situations.
The gasket maker will be able to tell you whats best.

[RSX302]

Well the fact is all the new engines are looking for nearly mirror smooth surface, if I remember it was 8to 12ra for most Ford alum. head to cast block situations.
The gasket maker will be able to tell you whats best.

Gasket makers are saying better then 50ra. I found the smoother the better...hence your 8-12ra...thats the ticket! If I remember correctly, I checked in at 10-16ra.

[heavychevy000]

SCe Gskets is currently bankrupt

I find that many companies seem to have the better head gasket. Being that I haven't had to replace too many (good thing I guess) most of my experience has been with Felpro stuff.

I’m currently running the Felpro MLS on a steel block/aluminum head engine that developed a small coolant leak to #7 cylinder. I was told that these particular gaskets have an issue with water sealing due to the different expansion rates of the metals. I can understand the why, but I’m not to sure if I buy into it because I think Felpro would have figured this into there products in this day and age.

I’m currently leaning toward the SCE Titan as the replacement but wanted to get your experiences before settling.

Thx in advance for your input

Ron