Trans Am Racers

[Munster]

I've noticed while watching many older SCCA races from the 68 to 70 era on Speed that there was quite a few Firebirds that were a little off. Being mostly, 69 rear quarter areas, doors and front fenders but with a 67-8 chrome type bumper molded to fit the different 69 fender contour. I've read some thing along the lines of they were trying to look an elidgable year model and such. My question is, is there some people left around that would know if this was wide spread (seems to have been) and maybe the possibility of parts available or the knowledge of how this was done. I like the looks.
This photo shows it a bit but I have seen lots more with the 69 rear quarters in videos. I'm not real fond of the plasticy type nose. Yea I know its not original but maybe.
To me, this would make a great vintage racing resto or P.T. type build base. Thought it would be an interesting thread starter also.

[vanzuuk1]

Thats a cool car, minilites rule...and this may be off topic,but that photo looks like bryar (loudon) and I stood on top of that little building and watched a lot of motorcycle racing in the eighties.

[fast Ed]

Going slightly off-topic too, I remember hearing stories about some of the Firebird racers trying to get away with running Chev engines, saying that's how the cars were sold in Canada. But the truth was only the full-size Pontiacs built for sale in Canada had Chev engines, the Firebirds were pure Poncho up here too.


cheers
Ed N.

[gonein67bird]

That thing is wicked! what time have you seen those races on speed.

[Damn True]

When is the vintage T/A coverage on SPEED?

[Munster]

When is the vintage T/A coverage on SPEED?

The last ones were just before the new year or Christmas and was a marathon of I beleive the show was American Muscle Series. A couple of the other topics where Bonneville salt flats and factory backing in musclecars type stories. But the wife deleted my tivo stuff on them. This episode for vintage scca I watched was old footage and it included lots of sceens that I have seen before but in other shows. When you watch modern vintage racing these Firebird alterations are not seen. Only in old footage. And as in this last paticular shows footage most of the Firebirds were of this type.(69 with chrome type bumpers on 69 fenders)
I'm going to look to see if I can find the Series name for sure, but I beleive it was American Muscle car series.
The great thing about Tivo and vintage stuff is you can pause and peer back in time and notice all sorts of things. Because I was not really impressed by the way the 69 Firebird nose took away from the lines of the car with all the rubber and gaps for impact when I noticed these variations on the scca circut I took notice.
I have already gone over to the darkside and converted my car to Camaro proportions but if Prodigy customs would have been just a little sooner with the final pics of Project Empty Nest i would have stayed with the F.B. because I love the nose on it. They took the time to remove all the this I hated about that nose. I also think grafting a 70 type two head light nose on a 69 would be nice. Just my opinion, (names changed to protect the innocent) ((from flaming))

I still beleive someone could build one of these altered but correct for authenticity cars and have something that would be pretty uninque for the Vintage racing build set. Who knows, not probable but possible if these nose peices were a factory type small # fitment they could be like the cross ram manifold Holly Grail is to the camaro side for the same era. These rare parts are out there just looking for them would be fun. I read in the camaro build book that a system was available for the camaros that made it possible to squirt traction aid or burn-out (tire bleach) on the rear tires. I've always had one of these systems built in my head but who would of known this was available from the factory way back then. Ya, rare, and maybe some myths but this types of thing to me hold a lot of history espescially if you get a story with them from and individual.

[vanzuuk1]

American musclecar did an episode on the trans am series, it was pretty good.

[406 Q-ship]

I can maybe speak for the reason for the funky sheet metal and trim combination on the Firebirds in the late 60's Trans Am Series. Well I know from several Chevy teams that GM would give the teams sheet metal or trim pieces for the previous seasons Z/28's to get updated to appear as the latest models on the showroom floors. I'm sure that Pontiac would do this as well for the cost saving of having to build new cars every season. Penske at the end of the 1967 season was asked by SCCA not to bring back the 67 car due to weight issues, when the Chevy guys showed up at Penske's shop they brought a new 68 Camaro and all the pieces to update the 67 car (Chevy wanted a 2 car team in 68). Penske had to buy back the 67 season car and put on the pieces at GM's request, suprizingly GM didn't supply doors so the 1967 car is easy to spot in 1968 races, and SCCA either didn't notice or didn't care to notice (SCCA did this quite a bit back then).

[Roadrage David]

Some camaro,s where converted to firebirds, and drove around with the chevy powerpland. Pontiac was diveloping the ram air v engine and when reddy GM pulled the plug on that engine. looking underneath the firebird bumper. i see a wide emty gap. could this be a converted 69 camaro?????? it would be cheaper and ez to just fit the ram air hood en de 67/68 bumper on a race reddy camaro. it makes no sence to put a 68 firebird bumper on a 69 firebird..........

[ho428]

They ran some strange combo's back then for sure. I'm currently building a 1968 for HSR. Based loosely on this car (pic)
The FIA 3B class allows 366 Cu in so I'll be running a .060 over Pontiac 350 for now. I had hoped to find a 366 Pontiac Nascar crank and destroke a 400 but so far no luck.
Grey car pic is mine under construction.

[wendell]

Are you sure that's going to fly for FIA 3.1 (3B)? I'm not up on the Ponchos but I thought the '68 were 326s or something.
Care to share more about the project? Vintage racing is about the only thing that gets me off.

Regardelss, hope your jock strap is as tight as your helmet. The HSR stuff is bruetal enough at 5.0L. <366 will let everybody get into a 4.13+ bore, all the air that comes with it and all the RPH that comes with that. Got to count on 650+hp. Good luck and give them hell.

[ho428]

According to the rules I've read and the guys I talked to running in it, 3A is 310 Cu In, 3B is 366 and the next, group 5 is 454 Cu In. The classes were set up for people like me. Those that can't afford real vintage parts or a car with a pedigree.
http://www.hsrrace.com/HSR/HSRHome.nsf/attachmentweb/EJEN-6LXQSE/$file/FIA++Classes+&+Rules.pdf?OpenElement

But most are running illegal anyway. Putting stroker kits in and such. If they force a tear down they can suspend you for a year. But being a Trophy-Hobby gig most in HSR and NASA don't seem to care what you run unless you're winning a lot. SCCA would be another story and SVR is very strict as well.

[wendell]

Gotcha. I mess around with an SRVA Group 6 car. Goes pretty good but it's not easy. Unless it's top secret, maybe open up a thread about your project. I think it would do folks around here good see how to make a first gen tick. There are also some VERY clever folks here that might leak a few tips...

[ho428]

I could definitely use some help and advise for sure, I may start a thread if it'll get some feedback. But this is my first day on this forum, so I'll hold back awhile.
I met a couple of real nice guys last year at RA, they let me take bunches of pics of their cars under, over, inside and out. One sent me his entire build picture journal on his 68 Mustang to reference.
Nothing secret about what I'm doing. Most of my parts are substandard anyway, but I've got almost everything to get it on the track, then I'll start upgrading. Not trying to build a contender right off, I've got a steep learning curve I'm afraid.

[Damn True]

Looks like an exciting project and one I'm sure many of us would like to follow. If you have any intention of maintaining it I'd encourage you to start a build thread.

[PonchoJohn]

It would be pretty simple to add a 67-68 bumper to a 69.
Think about it-
The hoods are the same.
The lower valances dimensions are the same.
Same core support.
The bumper-to-core-support close off panels for the 69 can be substituted for a 67-68.
Basically, get a 67/68 bumper assy (frame mounts, bumper, grilles, etc) and bolt it to the 69.
You will need the bumper's outside rubber seals (they close off the small gap between the bumper and the fender's edge).
Do it and post some pix!