Experienced CAD guys

[jus1975]

I have been playing around with a CAD program at work. Its alot different from the ones when I was in high school. More user friendly. I have to have one. What are the best for the buck CAD programs. I will be designing auto and motorcycle parts. A guy at work told me that some CAD programs can show you stress points in a part you design before you machine it.

[jus1975]

We also talked about the 3D scanning services that some companies offer. He was telling me about how some companies scan another part then upload and change the design and claim it for themselves. He was telling of a motorcyle performance cylinder head that is very popular and it started as a scan of a stock head and then altered. Is this possible to do. What could that cost?

[dipren443]

We also talked about the 3D scanning services that some companies offer. He was telling me about how some companies scan another part then upload and change the design and claim it for themselves. He was telling of a motorcyle performance cylinder head that is very popular and it started as a scan of a stock head and then altered. Is this possible to do. What could that cost?

This is accomplished in a multitude of ways. The ones that seem to be the most popular and cost effective are the portable articulating arm CMM's (Coordinate Measuring Machine). Now affordable is a relative term. They are still quite costly. Romer and Faro are the two largest manufacturers. So to answer your question, yes this is possible. The CMM collects data points and interprets/extrapolates the information directly into a 3D model. The more data points collected, the more accurate the 3D model. I have never looked into having a part scanned as we have a Faro arm at my place of work. I am sure someone provides this service for a fee.

There are also non-portable CMM's. These are more common. Many high end machining facilities will use CMM's to perform dimensional checks after completion of a product to certify to drawing specs. If you have any more questions about this, feel free to ask.

Romer Portable CMM:

[dipren443]

I have been playing around with a CAD program at work. Its alot different from the ones when I was in high school. More user friendly. I have to have one. What are the best for the buck CAD programs. I will be designing auto and motorcycle parts. A guy at work told me that some CAD programs can show you stress points in a part you design before you machine it.

What CAD program have you been playing with??? Is it a 2D layout CAD application or a 3D modelling app?

As far as bang for the buck, you really aren't going to find an inexpensive complete CAD package. They just aren't cheap. The cheapest way into a CAD program is to acquire a student edition of one of the following:

Pro-Engineer (3D modelling and 2D layout)
Kubotek Keycreator (3D modelling and 2D layout)
Solidworks (3D modelling and 2D layout)
AutoCAD (2D layout)

You will find that all of the 3D modelling apps will also be capable of generating 2D layout drawings.

The student editions will have some limitations, but can be had for sub $200 prices...

Calculating stress points is accomplished through finite element analysis simulation. No basic CAD apps are going to provide this function.

Programs that perform this function:
Ansys
IDEAS

IDEAS also does CAD work, but the interface isn't very intuitive. Again, the only economical way into one of these programs is to somehow acquire a student edition.

I hope I haven't confused you with all of this info, so feel free to ask any questions.

[B Schein]

I don’t know if there is one program I would call more usurer friendly that the other. A lot of people will say solid works but I disagree. They all have the strong points and week points. The University I attend has Pro-e, Solidworks, Inventor/ AutoCAD on the sever I decide what program I am going to use based on with my intended out come of the part is. Pro-e for things I want to do real engineering analysis on. Solidworks for stuff I need to share with other people I do research with they like it because it is inexpensive compared to pro-e for small businesses, and AutoCAD if I want do quick 2d Machining I can load DWG files straight into mastercam with out any file transfer issues.

On the scanning front it’s not as simple as just scan it and then you have a model you can moodily to you likening. I have had done a lot work with these scanners, Faro Arm ,Coordinate Measuring Machines (CMM) and the like. All these machines give you is raw data and you have to interpolate and manipulate it to your desired out come. The scanner will give you a point cloud when you open this in your cad package it will resemble what you scanned but. It is not a 3d parametric model. You he to uses a reverse engineering module to place surfaces and planes on use part it gets quit complicated and time consuming so I wont go to far into it. A CMM or faro arm is easer to work with it will give points, lines, radiuses or planes that you can use to go back and construct you part still not quick and easy.

The finite element analysis is a dangerous subject. Yes you can get low end cad packages with add in FEA but they are not that good and if you don’t know what you are doing with you can get in trouble because you can get false results if you don’t know that what all the variables mean. I took entire course on FEA we spent the first half of the semester just talking about theory, doing lot hand matrices before we even touched a computer. We mostly used Ansys and Abaqus but we did take look cad program based packages like pro-e mechanica and Solidworks cosmos to see how little you can control in these programs compared to the FEA specific programs.

So the simple answer to you question is there is no simple answer. You need to figure out what you realistically need it for not what you want it for because that can get real expensive in a hurry. Like was mentioned before I would try and get a student edition of Pro-e or Solidworks and see where that takes you. I hope I didn’t bore or confuse you with my complicated response but this my main field of study and something I am very interested in.

[dipren443]

I don’t know if there is one program I would call more usurer friendly that the other. A lot of people will say solid works but I disagree. They all have the strong points and week points. The University I attend has Pro-e, Solidworks, Inventor/ AutoCAD on the sever I decide what program I am going to use based on with my intended out come of the part is. Pro-e for things I want to do real engineering analysis on. Solidworks for stuff I need to share with other people I do research with they like it because it is inexpensive compared to pro-e for small businesses, and AutoCAD if I want do quick 2d Machining I can load DWG files straight into mastercam with out any file transfer issues.

On the scanning front it’s not as simple as just scan it and then you have a model you can moodily to you likening. I have had done a lot work with these scanners and Faro Arm Coordinate Measuring Machines (CMM) and the like. All these machines give you is raw data and you have to interpolate and manipulate it to your desired out come. The scanner will give you a point cloud when you open this in your cad package it will resemble what you scanned but. It is not a 3d parametric model. You he to uses a reverse engineering module to place surfaces and planes on use part it gets quit complicated and time consuming so I wont go to far into it. A CMM of faro arm is easer to work with it will give points, lines, radiuses or planes that you can use to go back and construct you part still not quick and easy.

The finite element analysis is a dangerous subject. Yes you can get low end cad packages with add in FEA but they are not that good and if you don’t know what you are doing with you can get in trouble because you can get false results if you don’t know that what all the variables mean. I took enter course on FEA we spent the first half of the semester just talking about theory, doing lot hand matrices before we even touched a computer. We mostly used Ansys and Abaqus but we did take look cad program based packages like pro-e mechanica and Solidworks cosmos to see how little you can control in these programs compared to the FEA specific programs.

So the simple answer to you question is there is no simple answer. You need to figure out what you realistically need it for not what you want it for because that can get real expensive in a hurry. Like was mentioned before I would try and get a student edition of Pro-e or Solidworks and see where that takes you. I hope I didn’t bore or confuse you with my complicated response but this my main field of study and something I am very interested in.

Brian,

Haha, I gave him the Cliff Notes as I didn't want to frighten him. There definitely isn't a simple answer as you said. Mind if ask what field you are in??

Nick

[bochnak]

I have been using SolidWorks since 99', and ProE since 06'. None of these are cheap. SW is more user friendly IMHO. Check out local community colleges and take some courses for cheap, and gain unlimited lab access.

I have heard good things about the FREE google sketch-up, although have not tried it.

[Paul69camaro]

You guys are right, there is no one answer to this question. Everybody has there own preferences. However I will tell you that SolidWorks is pretty user friendly compared to Pro/E. I just recently graduated and took a class in Pro/E and hated it. But I'm used to SolidWorks since that is what I use at work. As far as FEA programs, the CosmosWorks is great. Some say that it does'nt allow much control but thats probably cause their using the CosmosExpress that comes with SolidWorks and not the full version of CosmoWorks. Just so you know, Pro/E seems to have more market share, meaning that more companies out there are using it. However SolidWorks and some others are giving them good competition (Catia, Inventor). My vote is for SolidWorks although I'm probably biased.

Paul Simmons

[dipren443]

You guys are right, there is no one answer to this question. Everybody has there own preferences. However I will tell you that SolidWorks is pretty user friendly compared to Pro/E. I just recently graduated and took a class in Pro/E and hated it. But I'm used to SolidWorks since that is what I use at work. As far as FEA programs, the CosmosWorks is great. Some say that it does'nt allow much control but thats probably cause their using the CosmosExpress that comes with SolidWorks and not the full version of CosmoWorks. Just so you know, Pro/E seems to have more market share, meaning that more companies out there are using it. However SolidWorks and some others are giving them good competition (Catia, Inventor). My vote is for SolidWorks although I'm probably biased.

Paul Simmons

Paul,

Have you had the opportunity to play with Pro/E's wildfire? It is what I run at work. They have made alot of changes to make the program considerably more user friendly. My time with Solidworks is limited, so I can't really make a good comparison. I would say Solidworks is without a doubt more intuitive in my few experiences with it, though.

Nick

[JMarsa]

I have a friend in staffing and it seems the highest demand in the Detroit area is for Catia v5 designers.

--JMarsa

[dipren443]

I have a friend in staffing and it seems the highest demand in the Detroit area is for Catia v3 designers.

--JMarsa

That doesn't surprise me as I believe GM exclusively uses Catia for design. I do not know about Ford or Chrysler however.

Another thing to note... If we are just talking design and not delving into the analysis portion, my opinion is that it isn't too hard to go from one parametric based design package to another. I liken it to, maybe on a slightly higher level than this, learning the ins and outs of a vehicle you have never driven. The end result will be the same, but how you access certain menus and adjust settings will be slightly different.

Nick

[69stang]

Another thing to note... If we are just talking design and not delving into the analysis portion, my opinion is that it isn't too hard to go from one parametric based design package to another. I liken it to, maybe on a slightly higher level than this, learning the ins and outs of a vehicle you have never driven. The end result will be the same, but how you access certain menus and adjust settings will be slightly different.

That's pretty much been my feelings. I started off with autocad and ProE in 98. A couple of years later we went to SWX but still used ProE and AC. I currently use mostly SWX and occasionally ProE. Wildfire 3 is much more user friendly than it used to be. I've found that most tasks can be done easily in SWX and once in a great while you come across something that can be done better in ProE. I have training and a little unigraphics NX4 experience but in my opinon its harder to master. Then again, I didn't use it enough to become proficient with it. Keep in perspective the how you intend to use the software. ProE, Catia, Ug = high end very powerful Cad programs. SWX, SolidEdge, Inventer = mid range powerful but limited on the most complicated tasks.

[Apogee]

Just as a sidenote, keep in mind that you'll need some screeming hardware to keep up with all but the most basic 3D CAD packages. Big RAM and high-end NVIDIA video cards approved by the software provider. Inventor seems much more sensitive to hardware/video card changes than Solidworks, but that's Autodesk for you. I primarily use Solidworks and it does what I need it to without too many shortcomings.

Catia seems to be losing favor out West...unreasonable maintenance fees if you're not using it to it's fullest capabilties. Plus, with the other mid-range packages now capable of more advanced geometries, they look more attractive in side by side comparisons.

[96Z28SS]

I have a friend in staffing and it seems the highest demand in the Detroit area is for Catia v3 designers.

--JMarsa

You must mean v5 designers.

[96Z28SS]

I do CAD work all day as a designer.
I personally prefer having a laser scan of the object.
You can have a laser scan of half of car for about $3500.
We have a digitizer at work. I just never liked it cause unless you surface the entire thing you never get the entire overall look.

here are 2 pics one is a digitize file that we did, and another of a laser scan. You can see there is a big difference.

[JMarsa]

You must mean v5 designers.

Yes, I edited my post.

--JMarsa