newbie needs help: LS2 or LS1 for 2nd Gen F Body

[cdoggy81]

I'm new to this site as well as the LSx scene. After a LONG & very HARD personal debate I have decided to forgo the 455 Pontiac carb fed mill for my Pro Touring 1971 TA (2nd Gen F-Body) & go with a LSx setup (including the 4L6xE. Please help me find the best engine/combo for it based on value $$$, performance, & durability. Here is what I plan to add to it regardless of which one I get to reach my streetable goal of ~ +/- 550 HP & 500 TQ.



Port the stock heads ~ 300CFM - to save $ over buying new ones.
Ported intake to match heads. If I get an LS1 I'd buy a new intake or can I port those?
New cam & valve springs - nothing over .600 (maybe the comp 230/232 .591/.595 114*)
Full roller rockers
Headers
Programmer
Anything else you guys suggest???
(Not sure about a larger throttle body or MSD Coil Packs)

I'm sure this topic has been talked to death but please LMK what you all think or suggest. Thanks for the help!

[joeljet]

check ls1tech.com (conversions and hybrids) and nastyz28.com for more info on 2nd gen ls1 conversions, as well as here

[cdoggy81]

I will sign up & post it over there as well. Thanks!

[Rybar]

You might need a more agressive heads/cam/intake setup for an LS1 to get those numbers. It would be easier with an LS2 due to a few more cubes.

[Steve1968LS2]

You might need a more agressive heads/cam/intake setup for an LS1 to get those numbers. It would be easier with an LS2 due to a few more cubes.

Or an LS3 with even more cubes.

[WS6]

You're going to want to start with an LS2 if you want to stay aluminum engine. If you really want to save some dough, build a stroked iron block 6.0. LQ4/9 are the two engines. It'll be a lot less.

Ported LS6 heads are $1500 no reason to port the LS1 heads, that's a waste.

Why stop at .600" lift? Your durations numbers affect how the car will idle and drive more than the lift numbers. Choose your duration numbers and let the lift numbers be whatever they are. You'll need to choose a Comp Cam on the XER grind for the power you are talking.

LSx intakes really can't be ported. Either go with an LS6 if your building anything other than the LS2 or stay with the LS2. If you can afford to, a ported FAST intake and TB will do well, but because of price I would put that at the bottom of the list.

Honestly, we need to be talking what type of budget do you have to work with first. Give us a figure and from there we can break down the price and options components better. Your goal is easy to reach for the most part it just depends how much money do you have to spend. That auto will hold you back though.

[Steve1968LS2]

Keep in mind that if you swap from the LS2 to the LS6 intake you will need new fuel injectors, new fuel rail (logs) and a new TB. FAST was working on a retrofit kit but on mine I needed new injectors, new logs but I was able to use the 90mm GM Throttle Body.

Just things to keep in mind. But Trey is right. What's your budget?

[cdoggy81]

Looking to spend ~ $5000 for a LS2 / 4L6xE engine / tranny combo. Does that sound about right? Budget ~ $3000 for power add-ons so lets say $8000 ready to go. Can we do it???

"That auto will hold you back though"
What's up with the auto?

It's looking like go with the LS2 & stick with the stock intake & TB.

[Steve1968LS2]

Looking to spend ~ $5000 for a LS2 / 4L6xE engine / tranny combo. Does that sound about right? Budget ~ $3000 for power add-ons so lets say $8000 ready to go. Can we do it???

"That auto will hold you back though"
What's up with the auto?

It's looking like go with the LS2 & stick with the stock intake & TB.

Fly by wire is the only way to fly ;)

Possible. If the engine comes with a comp/harness then you can have it rebuilt by Speartech (with basic programming) for a decent amount. You will most likely also need a different oil pan/pickup. $8k is a doable deal if you don't go crazy and sell off parts.

If the engine/trans package comes with all the accesories (starter, alt, etc) then you are in even better shape.

[WS6]

Autos rob more power and handle less power. With the numbers you were talking the auto won't hold up and it will cause you to put less power to the ground. If you stay with the auto, figure at some point in time you'll have to rebuild it. How long it will last all depends on how hard you beat on the car. If you only plan to race it every now and then or only play on the streets every now and then, let it ride and hope it holds up for a while.

If 8k is your budget, you'll need to stick with the LS2 intake and ported LS6 heads. The engine has LS6 heads on it now. You'll need a good torque converter and headers. You can get a good Comp Cams cam and push rods. You can be sitting in the mid 400's with hp at the wheels this way if not a little higher. That's with a broad power band too.

This of course is after you've spent the necessary money getting the parts to simply get the engine in and running. In order to stay within budget, I would recommend you get everything installed and working correctly before you modify for power. These engines are easy to work on. Put them in a huge engine bay such as your bird's and doing cam and heads is easy.

[trapin]

cdoggy81, hate to be the bearer of bad news but you're going to need a lot more than 8 grand. There's a great deal more to this swap stuff than meets the eye. I know because I am living it right now. Here's a look at my little project.

LS1/4L60E salvage - $3250.
TR224/114 (from a member on this board) - $250
Hardened Pushrods (same member) - $50
Stage II LS6 heads - $1135 shipped to my door from Patriot.
LS6 Intake - $325
AutoKraft Oil Pan - $430
Ported TB - $75
Stock Converter - $0
LS2 Timing Chain - $35
Ported LS6 Oil Pump - $140
New head bolts - $146
All Gaskets - $113

That's $5640 right there and I'll be at around 470-480hp when all said and done. Then there's the cost of me getting it into the car and being able to start it and drive it. The budget for that is another $3511 which will bring me to a grand total of $9151 +/- a few hundred. And that's with getting a deal on my pushrods and cam, stock converter, and cheap heads. I can e-mail you a copy of my spreadsheet for this if you need it.

If you go LS2 and want 550/500, expect to pay over 10. And yes....you will need ALL those parts that I listed.

[WS6]

Good break down Tony, thanks for posting that. This just reaffirms my stance of get it in the car and working first and then modify it. All the little stuff adds up time and money wise.

Not trying to discourage you, doggy. I just want to see that car rolling down the road with the new power train it and not sitting on an engine stand waiting on parts and money to catch up.

[cdoggy81]

Thank you guys for all the help. I appreciate all opinions!
trapin, PLEASE email me that list
WS6, you are not discouraging me as I need to hear this stuff.

[merriman44]

Well if your building the engine. The ls2 block is 400 dollars cheaper than the ls1 block. This is because the ls1 is no longer in production. I say go with the LS3 block and go from there. You'll start out with more displacement which will make it alot easier to attain your power goals and still have a very tame car. I find it most impressive when I guy can go win at the track with the car he drives to work in.

[mac71ss]

I am in the same situation, doggy. I am seriously considering a lsx / 6sp for my 71 camaro the only difference is I would like to have a centrufical style blower on it also.

[DCx]

just go with an iron block 6.0 60lbs more for half the price! throw in a cam and a fast 90 with the money you saved and you are rollin. plus you dont have to worry about getting a special ls2 wiring harness because the chaper ls1 harness will work with all the sensor locations. either way you have to get a new oil pan and minor upgrades. trust me i know!

i sold trapin his cam and push rods.

[merriman44]

you ever get a buyer for those heads DCx? Hows that project of yours coming along?

[trapin]

doggy, I have the spreadsheet on my computer at work.

I will fire it out to you first thing Monday morning.

[streetk14]

You might need a more agressive heads/cam/intake setup for an LS1 to get those numbers. It would be easier with an LS2 due to a few more cubes.

I'd have to agree with Ryan here. 550 hp at the flywheel is going to take a fairly aggressive combination on either an LS1 or an LS2. The LS2 will help, but the used LS2s are usually more $$$.

For those kind of power numbers, I'd say you would need a very good set of heads (like AFRs) and a bigger cam. Also, keep in mind that getting the motor running in the car is going to cost more than you might think. The little stuff adds up in the end, but it really is worth it in the end.

Andy

[DCx]

merriman44

i sold those head, gave em away for 180 shipped! needed them to go. im having a battle with myself over what heads to go with. i have a line on some dart 225s for a good deal. might go with those. other than that, i would really like to unload my current SBC and M22!