TKO 600 issues....

[69Pony]

Hey guys,

New to the forum - mostly post on Ford / Mustang forums. I have a 69 Mach1 with a 408C stroker and recently replaced my toploader and 9" rear with a Keisler/Tremec TKO 600 and a Moser 9" with 3.89.

I'm having a couple of problems with the TKO that I need help / suggestions on. I have a Keisler supplied hydraulic clutch setup with a stage II+ clutch from SPEC.

1. Reverse is basically a grind feast. I can not seem to put it in reverse w/o grinding the gear. I know it is a non-sync'd reverse so I have to put it in a forward gear 1st but that doesn't seem to work. All forward gears seem fine. I've tried every forward gear ro sync reverse, double clutching, letting the clutch out a bit, revving the engine, etc... Nothing works. Any suggestions?

2. I am having problems with the clutch pedal not coming off the floor under hard shifts. I left the clutch return spring in and Keisler tells me I should pull it out. I would think it only helps with return so before I pull the spring (which Keisler calls a centering clutch spring) I was wondering if any of you all had this problem. Looks like a bear to pull this spring so I want to make sure it's the right thing to do 1st....

3. Wierd thing - I tried hard shifting the other day and could not get it to go into 3rd gear. Like it hit a wall or something. 5500k shifts - 3/4 WOT.....

Thanks for any / all help....

- 69Pony...

[parsonsj]

Pony,

It sounds to me like your clutch isn't fully releasing. I'd check the hydraulics ... bleed the slave again, check your clearances, note where the clutch engages, etc.

Also, did you check your bellhousing alignment? It is possible that the inability to disengage the clutch is actually a problem with the alignment between the engine and transmission.

The TKO gets unhappy more quickly with poor alignment than older transmissions.

jp

[My427stang]

Pony, I have zero issues getting mine into reverse, it drops right in

If it were just hanging up shifting, I would say you may be overcentering the clutch. The way you can check is see if it shifts easier by stopping about 1-2 inches from the floor.

If that helps, its as easy as making a pedal stop.

If that doesnt help, John is spot on with bellhousing aligment. If you didnt do it, do it, if you did, did you have all the bolts in the bellhousing? It will move a lot if you only jig it up with a few bolts holding it in place when you dial it in

[69Pony]

Well the bellhousing is a Lakewood and I had to have a custom spacer created by Keisler so it would fit right. I know the bolts are tight and the correct type but I will go over it again. I have just over 500 miles on it so it needs to go back up on the lift for a bolt check.

Bleeding the slave is a bit tricky since the hose Keisler supplies is a "self bleeding" type but the bleeder is about 2" before the end of the hose just before it enters the bellhousing.

Many posts I've been reading lately about the TKO 600 are less than good. Many people griping about shifting issues and missed shifts. Just wondering if that is happening with others.

[parsonsj]

Lakewood?

Pony, if you didn't align your bellhousing, then stop everything. Do the alignment. That's quite likely the problem. Lakewood bellhousings are notorious for that.

My TKO is awesome. A perfect shifting transmission. No issues here, but I did align my bell, and I've checked the clutch travel at the TOB.

Once your bell is aligned, try this experiment for checking clutch disengagement. Put the car on jackstands (or a lift). With the e-brake off and the rear wheels off the ground, see if you can rotate the driveshaft by hand when a helper pushes the clutch in with the tranny in 3rd gear. It should turn easily.

jp

[69Pony]

This is the Lakewood BH I have. http://www.lakewood-industries.com/P...&minselection=

BTW: The Pony is a 1969 Mach1 with a 408C stroker (587hp/520ftq)

Can you elaberate on what you mean by align the bellhousing? I aligned the clutch with the clutch tool and matched up the alignment holes of the bellhousing with the aligning pins on the engine.

[parsonsj]

Directly from the Lakewood website:

http://go.mrgasket.com/pdf/bellhousi..._procedure.pdf

From Ford Racing: (page down to near the bottom)

www.fordracingparts.com/faq/faq.asp

jp

[My427stang]

Bingo, there we go

Pony, read that stuff above, you have to use a dial indicator and make sure the center of the tranny is exactly centered to the crank.

The scatter shields are very often quite a ways off and need movable downs to get them in the right place

What happens is the input shaft is side loaded and keeps turning when you put the clutch in.

[69Pony]

I will certainly check this weekend. Thanks for the info and I'll let you all know the results. The other issue with the clutch pedal staying down is probably mustang specific. I just don't know about pulling that spring... Any Mustang guys out there with a Keisler and hyd. clutch? I know StreetKing does - anyone know him?

[6'9"Witha69]

If the bell is off enough, it can cause the same type issue. Fix the centering of the bell first.

[69Pony]

I went over my notes and the variance was only .004 (.005 is the max). So I'm just under max. I would think this is fine but will get it up on the lift again and check...

Not really having any shifting / grinding issues in any other gears - only reverse. My problems are that and the pedal staying on the floor during fast shifts. Some say removing the clutch pedal spring will solve the second problem.

[keislerNick]

You dont need the so call centering spring you dont need it with the syle of clutch you are using.

[69Pony]

You dont need the so call centering spring you dont need it with the syle of clutch you are using.

Hey Nick,

69Pony would be me (John Cozzolino). Will be pulling the centering spring this weekend. Also, will be checking the clutch plate to throw out bearing distance to see if thats my reverse grinding issue.

Guys - Nick is a wealth of info at Keisler.

Thanks for all the help Nick - maybe talking to you on Saturday.

[69Pony]

Well a very productive weekend....

The clutch spring was a PITA to remove. Took several hours but its out and the clutch feels great.

The reverse grinding issue has been solved also. Lets just say an adjustment needed to be made - simple stupid fix. Nothing wrong with the tranny or bellhousing.

The only thing bothering me now is I can't get into 2nd on a hard shift. 5800-6000rpm. Might be me.....

[keislerNick]

John I am glad things worked out for you. I was expecting a call on my cell phone this weekend but I figured you got everything working otherwise I would have talked to you. Good work and enjoy the car now call me if you need anything.

[69Pony]

Nick - thanks for the support. It really is night and day now....

Any idea on the lock out shifting into 2nd? I can't get it in with 5K shifts. No grind - just won't go in.... I drop the rpm's down around 4K and it goes in no problem.

Even though it's not grinding, I'm on the high side of the spec for the throw out bearing to clutch measurement. No space since the .25" was too much. Really think a .125 spacer would put me in spec better.

[keislerNick]

John
Let me look into this today and see what I can figure out for you.

[DCx]

i would miss 2nd every time in my 2001 cobra if the revs got over 6000. i junked the stock shifter and replaced it with a steeda tri-ax works like a charm.

i used to hate the tr-3650 in my cobra. its fun now. maybe all you need it a racy shifter.

[keislerNick]

The TR-3650 and the TKO are nothing alike. You can't use the steeda tri-ax on the TKO.

[69Pony]

Well I am trying to keep the "stock" look so I have a Hurst shfter on it.

10" tall with a 7.5" backspacing. Works and fits fine but it might be too much throw I guess. But we're talking 2nd gear here - how hard is it to come straight down?

Very similar to what Keisler sells on their site...
http://keislerauto.com/gm/transmissi...G-0100_ext.jpg


Down for a week while I send the carb out - Pro Systems 950cfm that Patrick is going to re-calibrate since it never really worked for my setup from the beginning.