Insurance update

[TheMonkey]

Steve-

You JUST had this work done.... do you have some documentation of the labor rates you just paid?

[BRIAN]

Guys I dislike SF as much as anybody here but I am just amused at all the ideas people have about Insurance Co's. Makes me understand why everybody has a negative outlook towards them.


If you think all estimators do is hit keys on a keyboard then you have zero idea how to generate an electronic estimate.


99% of the time why a shop is not getting the amount they want to repair a car is there inability to write an estimate. Everybody swears they are the best of the best but the problem is they do not see anything but what happens in their own shop. Ask any Insurance Estimator out there and they will tell you that shops that have ex estimators working their estimates get at least 20% more a claim.

What you paid for labor rates has nothing to do with what you will get. People over pay for things everyday. There are several different rates, paint labor, body labor, mechanical labor, and frame labor. Usually mechanical and frame are the highest although if you add paint and materials paint is the highest.


I agree they owe you above the prevailing rate in your area as you are having specialty work done. Careful how you approach them or you are simply going to be handed a no AP letter and a list of shops in your area that will do it for their labor rate. Very hard to fight that in court as they will have plenty of documentation of why they pay those rates and list of all the shop's that accept them. Heck, if your shop filled out their survey i hope it was at the higher rate he wants.

Remember every angle you are trying that adjuster has heard about 10 times a day. They want to settle the claim as quickly as you do as it is just addl work for them. Ask them what info they need to prove the rate should be adjusted and have your shop write a very detailed estimate. If he knows what he is doing there really shouldn't be that big a difference between the estimate totals.

[formula98]

Hi Steve,

I know it is a pain, but I would get 2 other quotes with standard shop rates. Then they will not have a leg to stand on.

I had to do this in the past.

[MuscleRodz]

Since the driver had claimed undeniable fault, you should be allowed to take the car to whoever you want or wherever you want to work on it. Since you have already had BOS working on the car to start with, SF should know and accept that you want SF to fix the Camaro back to the same standard you just received it in from BOS with receipts to prove what you just paid for in labor rates.

You could tell them you are writing an article about this in a national wide circulated automotive magazine and would be happy to negatively plaster State Farm to say about a million readers. That might get the adjuster attention.

Mike

[vintageracer]

I just cancelled ALL my insurance with State Farm after 20+ years. With no claims they raised my homeowners insurance 27% just this year alone to a new annual premium of $4,000. I live in Tennessee, not Louisana or Florida.

That was it! I started shopping and now have better coverage with replacement cost contents and home insurance for $1,955/yr. State Farm cancelled there replacement coverage endorsement several years ago. The management at State Farm has had their head handed to them with Katrina and are now making customers in other states pay for their mistakes. Having been in top management before I know that State Farm expects to lose "X" amount of customers with their decision. I expect that they "may" end up like Dupont Chemical when they offered their first early out retirement when 3-4 times the amount of people Dupont expected to take the "package" took the offer. This "mistake" cost Dupont heavily in money and "brain drain" in their technical expertise.

I expect State Farm will have the same results. Far MORE people will can cancel their coverage and change carriers than they expect. In my case, they have lost a LOT of revenue. 2 homes, 10 cars, 3 trailers, umbrella liability coverage business insurance and more.

I actually am GLAD State Farm took this action since I would have NEVER shopped my insurance business had they not done this foolish action. Thanks to State Farm I now have better coverage for over 40% less total cost on my TOTAL insurance coverage plan!

"Like a Good Neighbor, State Farm AIN'T There"

[MuscleRodz]

Yeah it is a pain, but I would go get 3 quotes from the three highest priced shops in the area and then take it to BOS.

Mike

[Steve1968LS2]

Guys I dislike SF as much as anybody here but I am just amused at all the ideas people have about Insurance Co's. Makes me understand why everybody has a negative outlook towards them.

.

Surprisingly I do know how it works, I just refuse to let them treat my Camaro like a 97 Toyota. To be honest I've learned a lot from guys like yourself and from these threads. I've also learned a lot doing my current story.

If I was any way at fault I would feel screwed. However, I was 0% at fault and SF is going to loose if they think it's going to go down thier way. I am fully confident that I would win in a court case or even in arbitration since I am only asking to be "made whole" from the loss caused by thier insured party. The car is very well documented and had just left the shop it's currently is at. It's not like it was an old restoration and now I'm demanding that Boyd Coddington or Foose do the repair. Legally they really don't have anywhere to go. Then I have the whole concept of "diminished value" to consider.

I'm sure BOS would take the $48 an hour if they could pad up the labor time like the hack and slash normal body shops do. lol

[BB69]

I will try to expand on my experience and tell you what I was told in more detail.

1. Insurance company wanted to get an estimate as soon as possible. They were going to send someone to my house. Based on advice I got here (and other forums) I insisted that the car be taken to a shop for the estimate. State Farm agreed, and asked where I wanted to take it. I sent it to Reiter's, again based on advice here.

2. When the State Farm adjuster inspected the car at Reiter's, the adjuster said they didn't have very much experience with cars like this, so it would best if Reiter's did the estimate.

3. The guys at Reiter's busted their butts to put together a detailed estimate, including replacement part numbers from aftermarket suppliers. They also brought in a frame guy to estimate the frame damage and repair cost. Reiter's gave the estimate to SF and to me.

4. SF called me and said they were totalling the car based on the estimate. No problem I said, I will be willing to take the $15K the car was appraised for (almost 5 years ago before the work I did). This is when things turned ugly. SF said they didn't believe a 69 Camaro was worth $15K, they thought maybe $12 at the high end. We went back and forth about whether or not I had an agreed value policy. The end result was that SF looked online for 69's and figured that they didn't want to total the car because a replacement of "equal value and quality" would have been at least $25K.

5. Once SF realized they were not going to total the car, they attacked the Reiter's quote. The 2 biggest items were the labor rate, and the amount for repairing the frame. This is also when they started saying that Reiter's would be doing "custom" work, and SF was not obligated to pay for that. Translation, Reiter's explained to SF that the replacement body panels didn't fit, and they would modify them as necessary and make replacements where there was no other alternative. SF said, "the panels are available from GM, they should not need custom work". After a week of arguing and getting to another level of management, someone from SF finally called NPD and asked about the fit of replacement panels. This guy at SF finally admitted that the panels would require fitment. They increased the estimate by $450.

6. During this time, I physically took the car to 2 other shops. Both shops said they would do an estimate, but never did. One simply never called back, the other said they refused to work with SF because of the "agreed" labor rates. I also asked SF where I should take the car. The shop they suggested would not even look at the Camaro; they said they don't do that kind of work.

7. After all this, Reiter's didn't want to touch the car because they knew they wouldn't get paid. They offered to have SF come in and see what was required to make the car right, and SF didn't take them up on it. I was left with no shop willing to work on the car.

8. Once SF said they would not total the car, they put together their own estimate. How did they do this? They took Reiter's estimate and plugged the information into their automated database. The database gave them the "required" time to do each repair. SF decided to repair some items Reiter's quoted as replace, but basically the list of items was the same. The difference was that SF has automated calculations for how much labor each of these items takes. The other big difference was that Reiter's quoted painting the whole car (all 4 fenders/quarters were hit, as were the hood and decklid; front the the doors were also damaged) and SF only quoted painting per the database. SF also did not want to replace the gas tank (it was leaking from the accident; in fact the fire department was called to the scene to clean it up). When I mentioned this, SF agreed they should probably spring for a new tank.

What I would do differently:

1. Read your insurance policy line by line, and ask questions about anything you don't understand.

2. Keep a very detailed build log with receipts and pictures of the work. Have an updated appraisal done whenever you do major work.

3. Make absolutely sure that you have an agreed value policy.

4. Start mentioning to SF that you want to go to arbitration. You may very well have to pay for an estimate of the damages, but so will SF. They will immediately change their tune when you bring this up.

5. Think about suing the other driver for the difference. I really struggle with this one, but if I knew then what I know now, I would have sued him instantly. The difference between what it would have really cost to fix the car, and what I got, was $6000 and probably a year of my time. Just like me, you didn't do anything wrong other than drive your car. I'm not saying you should sue for anything more than the actual loss, only what you will not get from the insurance company.

Sorry for the long response, but as you can probably tell, I am still pretty upset about this. I am going to see my car next week to see what kind of progress has been made. Everytime I see the car, I get pissed.

Ken

[silver69camaro]

I just went through this with State Farm last year, although I didn't have an accident. It came my attention that my "agreed value" policy was not what it seemed, thanks to some online forums. I finally called up my agent:
Me: "If, for any reason, would I get any less than the agreed value on the policy in the event of a total loss?"
State Farm: "Yes, we determine the actual value at the time of the accident."

That did it for me. Although we agreed on a value for the car, they actually determine what it's worth when the time comes. So, if you have a collector car insurace with State Farm, you better watch out.

The lesson here: Go with Haggerty or similiar. The rules may be more stringent, but it's worth it (and cheaper too).

[teamplex65]

I am also shopping State Farm. I have already switched my Life Insurance and am getting ready to drop my 3 cars with no claim ever in 13 years on my wifes and my car. After 1 wreck caused by a 16 year old that simply had to deny he didnt do "what he did" to the cop cost me my good driver discount and my agent didnt go to bat for me simply because we both had SF. I wrote out a 4 page story less than an hour after it happened and all the kid did was simply say "no I didnt" and it was mutual fault so I lost my Good Driver Discount.

My brother in law had a barn that most of the roof was damaged in a storm. The agent said get it replaced asap for the horses protection and we will get it back for you. The installer even waited on payment from State Farm (gotta love small towns). Cost was over $6000 and SF sent them a check for $100.

Just to many stories with SF for me to stick around. Its all about the premiums. I figured Ive spent almost $40,000 with them in premiums and they are going to lose me because of a $900 claim and lack of service.

[rob07002]

This thread really makes it hard to decide who is most evil; Insurance Companies or Big Oil.

[Bow Tie 67]

I dropped State Farm years ago, and am really surprised anyone would use anything other than specialty insurance for your toys.

[Steve1968LS2]

I dropped State Farm years ago, and am really surprised anyone would use anything other than specialty insurance for your toys.

Keep in mind that I don't have State Farm.. State Farm is who the guy that hit me had.

That being said, I'm the damaged party and as such it doesn't matter what State Farm's policy says since it's not my policy. Thier legal obligation is to make me "whole" that is to say to put me back to where I was before the accident that was the sole fault of thier insured.

If I was insured through State Farm and got in an accident that was my fault I would be screwed. Pretty simple.

[Bow Tie 67]

I knew you were smarter than that Steve, but after reading the posts about state farm I kind of lost sight of the fact your insurance is not involved. I can't stand S.F. and as far as loyalty to any insurance company just give me the best rate for decent coverage and good customer service if needed.

[eville]

Have you considered getting your insurance company involved and letting them fight with SF? With my recent incident, I called my insurance company, they're taking care of the repairs and will pursue the "at fault parties" insurance. I'm going to have to pay my $500 deductible until my insurance company recovers the $. I'm probably going to get my rental car reimbursed even though I don't have rental car coverage.

[Steve1968LS2]

Have you considered getting your insurance company involved and letting them fight with SF? With my recent incident, I called my insurance company, they're taking care of the repairs and will pursue the "at fault parties" insurance. I'm going to have to pay my $500 deductible until my insurance company recovers the $. I'm probably going to get my rental car reimbursed even though I don't have rental car coverage.

I will cross that bridge if I have to. Right now SF isn't being difficult. This is just "part of the process". If they get "difficult" then I will explore my many other options.

[John McIntire]

what a friggin hassle. I have SF for my daily driver, and my home, and have no complaints yet. I even had them for my motorcycle when I had it, and they were the cheapest aout of anyone for full coverage. Maybe because I was a long time customer.
The Chevelle is insured through Hagerty, but also never had to deal with them yet for any unfortunate happenings.
I really look forward to the insurance article you are writing for the Mag, because I am sure that there are things in there that I would live to ask Hagerty about in some "what if" situations. All I really gather is that the car is not covered in any racing or "timed events"
I really hope that this does not get dragged out any longer for you, as summer is near and its prime cruising time! I hope that they eventually cave in and come to realize that this hobby isn't cheap, and there is more skill involved then just repainting and replacing a panel. This type of bodywork really is a dying art, and the last few shops that still cater to this are few and far between, well the good ones at least.
If they still give you a hard time, just tell them to go watch barrett jackson, or just browse Ebay. Then they might change their tune!
Good Luck, keep us posted!

[eville]

I will cross that bridge if I have to. Right now SF isn't being difficult. This is just "part of the process". If they get "difficult" then I will explore my many other options.

I figure that's what I pay all that money every year for, this is my first insurance claim, ever in almost 16 years. They deserve to work for it every now and again.

[Steve1968LS2]

I figure that's what I pay all that money every year for, this is my first insurance claim, ever in almost 16 years. They deserve to work for it every now and again.

lol.. isn't that the truth..

Time for a new threat.. with new news