Mid-Engine Mustang Fastback

[69stang]

Nice project! I love the sketches. I've been looking at the Ford GT/GT40 styling and thinking about adding some cues to my 69 mustang without messing with the factory 69 styling. So far I'm adding air inlets in place of the front turn lights just beneath the bumper all in a one-piece fg bumper/lower pan/air dam unit. I also decided to use the rocker stripe scheme of the Ford GT with just "Ford" in the stripe. Seeing the stripe in your sketches confirms it. I love these kind of projects.

[got_hp?]

WOW , awesome project.......cant wait to see some progress shots on it!!!

cool that you are semi-local to me as well, maybe ill be able to swing by the shop someday and check it out in person!

[Bob Johnson]

I glad you asked, yes we have made some progress on the project. The car is stripped and we have our game plan. It looks like Ford will not release anything GT because of a corporate policy in place. It looks like we will be using the brand new Mendeola transaxle. It is smaller than the GT model and handles up to 750HP. The key to this project is that it will retain its mustang look. It will not look like anything other than a mustang fastback. The plan is to build the entire car in the raw and then drive the HELL OUT OF IT. We will be doing all kinds of testing on it. Our goal is to build the ultimate driving machine. We want this one to be known as a driving car with performance placed first and foremost. Once we have driven it, tested it, and worked out all the bugs then we will take it apart and make it pretty then we will abuse the HELL OUT OF IT AGAIN. This one is going to be fun but it will take some time to do it. It will not be rushed to attend a show, this one will be done to be driven and enjoyed over be rushed to be completed for a show. It will not be pushed anywhere like so many of the cars at SEMA were last week.

Thanks
Mike Staveski

so SVO/Ford didn't release the GT engine and transaxle. they had approached Alan Johnson and myself at Barrett Jackson Jan 2007 with the their idea of doing a mid engine 69 Mustang with the GT engine and transaxle. SVO had done a lot of engineering on the project and was planning on building it but Ford pulled the rug out from under them. They were wanting us to do the project. they were talking about making a run of limited production pieces. I didn't persue it because there was too much doubt as to whether an engine and transaxle could be obtained..Idea was great, lots of engineering done, but that engine and transaxle isn't a cheap combo. Are you doing what they had envisioned? Are you going to use the GT blown engine?

[vipercuda]

so SVO/Ford didn't release the GT engine and transaxle. they had approached Alan Johnson and myself at Barrett Jackson Jan 2007 with the their idea of doing a mid engine 69 Mustang with the GT engine and transaxle. SVO had done a lot of engineering on the project and was planning on building it but Ford pulled the rug out from under them. They were wanting us to do the project. they were talking about making a run of limited production pieces. I didn't persue it because there was too much doubt as to whether an engine and transaxle could be obtained..Idea was great, lots of engineering done, but that engine and transaxle isn't a cheap combo. Are you doing what they had envisioned? Are you going to use the GT blown engine?

Bob, In speaking to Ford last week, I believe we will be using the new blown aluminator engine. It generates about 700 HP but getting the transaxle seems next to impossible without a GT and vin# to go along with it. If we do not go with the GT transaxle, we will use the new Mendeola deal. It is smaller than the GT deal and will handle 750HP.

Mike

[Restomod]

Cant find anyone willing to let you "use" their VIN?

[Bob Johnson]

Bob, In speaking to Ford last week, I believe we will be using the new blown aluminator engine. It generates about 700 HP but getting the transaxle seems next to impossible without a GT and vin# to go along with it. If we do not go with the GT transaxle, we will use the new Mendeola deal. It is smaller than the GT deal and will handle 750HP.

Mike

how does that unit handle shifts that aren't made under full power? How square and noisy are the gears..is it shifted sequentially like a motorcycle? We looked at several of those and they just don't like to be driven sanely. You have to be beating on them hard for them to shift effeciently..plus most are noisy as hell..I just didn't get a warm fuzzy feeling when I talked to SVO..it was obvious they didn't have the clout anymore to get the parts to make the initial car..and those parts aren't cheap..so I decide to build a Cadillac and power it with a Northstar..and guess what help I got out of GM..couldn't even get them to let me buy scrap panels out of the pile they send to a salvage company. Pretty frustrating..This car is way beyond your past builds. Hopefully you are using the engineering the factory did..that's going to be a complex project. Lots of gremlins will surface in all that one off stuff. good luck..you'll be needing it I'm sure..

[96Z28SS]

Anyone have pics of the mid engine Mustang in the PPG booth at SEMA, It had a lamborgini engine and drivetrain in it.

[Benoit23]

I love the idea of this build, I just couldn't afford to lose the use of my rear seat. That's where my kids sit.

I'll be watching the progress though.

[vipercuda]

Bob, In speaking to Ford last week, I believe we will be using the new blown aluminator engine. It generates about 700 HP but getting the transaxle seems next to impossible without a GT and vin# to go along with it. If we do not go with the GT transaxle, we will use the new Mendeola deal. It is smaller than the GT deal and will handle 750HP.

Mike

Latest news on the project from Time Machines--------------
I put a deposit on a GT transaxle with less than 1000 miles on it today out of a wrecked car. I am getting the shifter and linkage from a GT as well. We have decided to use the suspension from a 2001 ACR Dodge Viper that I have at the shop. It has the Nitrogen filled canistered shocks from the ACR car on it as well. The viper had less than 10,000 miles on it too. It should make a very nice package. We really like the adjustability of the viper suspension. It will allow us to fit 20 X 12 rims in the back. I have asked Jason for some additional detail renderings today. So we will have more info & pics to follow soon. This is going to get real fun fast.

Thanks
Mike

[preston]

They list the Ricardo/GT transaxle in the Ford motorsports catalog and say "ofr mid-engine kit cars". So I'm surprised they said they wouldn't sell it to you without a VIN ??

What I can't figure out is I also looked at making a mid-engine mustang and could not figure out how the driver would sit. I think i calculated the driver seat would have to move forward about 8-10", putting you ridiculously close to the windshield.

let's see, the approximate distance from the axle to the block is 8.5" on a G50, and a SBF engine is at least 27" with accessories, its possible you could clear 1-2" off of that length with some cleverness ala Saleen S7. With a bulkhead, that means the seat cannot start until 37" from the rear axle. Assuming the bulkhead angle fits the seat angle, the driver still needs 50" measuring along the floor to fit, which means your new firewall is 87" ahead of the rear axle, leaving only 21" to the front axle. Since my Mustang is far from stock I don't remember where that leaves you in relation to the stock seating position, but I remember when I figured it out it just didn't work very well if you didn't like hitting the windshield with your head.

Between that and the cost of the Transaxle I went the opposite direction and moved teh front engine back 14", and moved the driver back 10" instead !

So needless to say I will be interested in how it works out !

[vipercuda]

They list the Ricardo/GT transaxle in the Ford motorsports catalog and say "ofr mid-engine kit cars". So I'm surprised they said they wouldn't sell it to you without a VIN ??

What I can't figure out is I also looked at making a mid-engine mustang and could not figure out how the driver would sit. I think i calculated the driver seat would have to move forward about 8-10", putting you ridiculously close to the windshield.

let's see, the approximate distance from the axle to the block is 8.5" on a G50, and a SBF engine is at least 27" with accessories, its possible you could clear 1-2" off of that length with some cleverness ala Saleen S7. With a bulkhead, that means the seat cannot start until 37" from the rear axle. Assuming the bulkhead angle fits the seat angle, the driver still needs 50" measuring along the floor to fit, which means your new firewall is 87" ahead of the rear axle, leaving only 21" to the front axle. Since my Mustang is far from stock I don't remember where that leaves you in relation to the stock seating position, but I remember when I figured it out it just didn't work very well if you didn't like hitting the windshield with your head.

Between that and the cost of the Transaxle I went the opposite direction and moved teh front engine back 14", and moved the driver back 10" instead !

So needless to say I will be interested in how it works out !

Preston

Thanks for the comments and thoughts. Have you driven you car yet? You should love how it drives we have built more than 10 cars just as you described and they all drive incredibly well.

With the rear engine concept, I have wanted to do it for 7 years now and believe our plan will work quite nicely. I will post pics as we have them available. We have the mustang stripped, we have the viper chassis stripped as well, I am waiting to receive the transaxle but I can tell you we are quite excited about this unique concept.

Thanks
Mike

[preston]

Yes in fact I'm currently building the 3rd generation of this design.
Current build thread is here: http://forums.corner-carvers.com/showthread.php?t=32889

(lots of arcane suspension discussions that can be skipped, just scroll for the photos).

The name of your shop wasn't familar to me until I checked out your website and I do remember some of your projects now. Looking good !
This obviously won't be some hack project, so I am looking forward to what you'll put together. I have seen a mid-engine mustang but it was a transverse install.

[DarkBuddha]

I like the idea of this project and have had similar dreams for years (since seeing my first Pantera actually) and have been daydreaming about it a lot lately. Seems it's an idea that has finally found its time. BTW, my latest version is highly influenced by my relatively recent involvement with Merkurs (and Sierra Cosworths by association. Now it would be a bit different than my old Pantera-esque ideas, with a front mount mid-engine layout with an AWD system, probably using Sierra 4x4 components and a turbo'd SBF. There are a couple folks that have done SBF Sierra 4x4 conversions on Merkurs, so I know it's viable. Of course the "hard part" (or near impossible for me) would be to fit it to the Mustang chassis. But figuring it's really just a shell anyway, I'd probably look for one of those full fiberglass '70 Mustang bodies that were out a few years ago and do a monocoque or tube chassis.

Ah... to dream is cheap.

[vipercuda]

Preston

Thanks for the comments and thoughts. Have you driven you car yet? You should love how it drives we have built more than 10 cars just as you described and they all drive incredibly well.

With the rear engine concept, I have wanted to do it for 7 years now and believe our plan will work quite nicely. I will post pics as we have them available. We have the mustang stripped, we have the viper chassis stripped as well, I am waiting to receive the transaxle but I can tell you we are quite excited about this unique concept.

Thanks
Mike

Latest Mustang GT update

We have the viper chassis trimmed out. We have ordered the replacement sheetmetal from National Parts Depot. I will tell anyone working on a camaro or mustang they should really consider working with NPD. Their stuff fits and they have it in stock. The transaxle should get here next week too. It is starting to come together.

Thanks
Mike

[BRIAN]

Are there block differences between the GT40 and Cobra or Aluminator engine? KarKraft has has had a new GT40 engine on their site for a long time but it is like $40k?? Just curious as to what makes a $15k engine a $40k GT40 engine? Seams like a lot of cash for updates?

Did Ford release the stand alone harness for the Aluminator?? I have a Cobra engine and know the FAST and BIG3 swap is not that easy of a deal.


Killer project!! Different to say the least.

[BMF Machine]

SiCK ProjeCT!
I hope it turns out well in the end, it will be a work of art!

[fast Ed]

Are there block differences between the GT40 and Cobra or Aluminator engine? KarKraft has has had a new GT40 engine on their site for a long time but it is like $40k?? Just curious as to what makes a $15k engine a $40k GT40 engine? Seams like a lot of cash for updates?

GT engine is all aluminium, as opposed to GT-500 engine which has a cast iron block. The GT engine is dry-sump, which makes for some differences in itself to the block, and also the starter location is different to go with the transaxle. Probably not $25K worth of changes though.


cheers
Ed N.

[vipercuda]

The Ford GT transaxle and shifter arrived today. It is used but only has 780 miles on it. We also made a run to National Parts Depot today as well and got all the sheetmetal for the project. The transaxle looks very cool. Progress..

[preston]

Care to share what you paid for it ?

Did you ever resolve if these are actually available to buy from the Ford catalog ? (Like it says they are).

[vipercuda]

I was told directly by Ford Racing that they can no longer offer anything GT related. Ford Racing could not even get GT parts for a SEMA project this year. I paid $12,000 to get it but it has less than 1000 miles on it. More than I wanted to pay but I needed it for the project. Kar Kraft told me as fast as they get these in they sell them.

Care to share what you paid for it ?

Did you ever resolve if these are actually available to buy from the Ford catalog ? (Like it says they are).