global west

[redline88]

has anyone used the category 5 leaf springs by global west? i'm thinking about getting the complete setup for my '81 trans am, cost about $869. wondering if any feedback was available before spending that much cash.


thanks.

[Lowend]

Best leafsprings money can buy

[chicane67]

Well... the best shackle kit installed into a leaf spring anyway.

[dgoetz]

They probably are the best leaf sprs set up but they are still just leaf springs. Just sold my complete Cat 5 set up, w/Qa1 adj shocks and DSE offset shackels for $700.00. Less than 1yr old.
The car is used for autocross Solo ll and a little street. Couldn't stop whl hop (clamped sprs) Didn't want to use traction bars because of susp binding. Not good weight trans, lots of over steer. Probably great for drag racing and touring. Axle would shift enough for wheels to hit inside fender wells.
Went to mod tri link from air ride Tech lowered 2" more then there stock kit would allow w/ Qa1's instead of air shocks. No comparison to wagon wheel springs!!

[mpozzi]

They probably are the best leaf sprs set up but they are still just leaf springs. Just sold my complete Cat 5 set up, w/Qa1 adj shocks and DSE offset shackels for $700.00. Less than 1yr old.
The car is used for autocross Solo ll and a little street. Couldn't stop whl hop (clamped sprs) Didn't want to use traction bars because of susp binding. Not good weight trans, lots of over steer. Probably great for drag racing and touring. Axle would shift enough for wheels to hit inside fender wells.
Went to mod tri link from air ride Tech lowered 2" more then there stock kit would allow w/ Qa1's instead of air shocks. No comparison to wagon wheel springs!!

What car were they used on?? And tell us what the rest of the suspension consisted of, please?? What Solo II class did you compete in? And what size wheels and make tires were you running?

Cheers,
Mary Pozzi

[mpozzi]

has anyone used the category 5 leaf springs by global west? i'm thinking about getting the complete setup for my '81 trans am, cost about $869. wondering if any feedback was available before spending that much cash.


thanks.

If I ever get mine shipped to me, I'll install them, drive my car, and tell you . . .

Cheers,
Mary Pozzi

[redline88]

thanks guys, i'll problably go ahead and get them, i have just have a street car that will see the strip sometimes.

mpozzi, keep me posted and let us know how you like yours.

[Taylor1969]

get them from jegs... they are under $800 shipped

[dgoetz]

What car were they used on?? And tell us what the rest of the suspension consisted of, please?? What Solo II class did you compete in? And what size wheels and make tires were you running?

Cheers,
Mary Pozzi

The Car now runs in C Prepared - Check out Welcome to Our Meesenger Board/New Cars, New Member - dgoetz

[David Pozzi]

dgoetz,
You can legally use a three link in CP????
I thought you had to stick with original suspension type and mounting points.

FYI,
I did a test of Hotchkis leaf springs in torsion. They take 27 ft lbs per degree to twist in the car for one spring. They use a stock front bushing, and Polyurethane Energy Suspension type shackle bushings.
David

[chicane67]

They probably are the best leaf sprs set up but they are still just leaf springs. Just sold my complete Cat 5 set up, w/Qa1 adj shocks and DSE offset shackels for $700.00. Less than 1yr old.
The car is used for autocross Solo ll and a little street. Couldn't stop whl hop (clamped sprs) Didn't want to use traction bars because of susp binding. Not good weight trans, lots of over steer. Probably great for drag racing and touring. Axle would shift enough for wheels to hit inside fender wells.
Went to mod tri link from air ride Tech lowered 2" more then there stock kit would allow w/ Qa1's instead of air shocks. No comparison to wagon wheel springs!!

Well... that is why I stated that they are the best bushing and shackle out there.

There are however, much better leaf springs available... and in your case, much better dampers as well. I dont blame you for selling that set-up. The spring has to be designed to address the issues you had with wheel hop and traction. Unfortunately, 99% of the off the shelf leafs available to the mass dont or were not designed to combat these problems.

Leaf springs or not... leafs work if you do them correctly.

JMHO

[MonzaRacer]

dgoetz Had same problem several people I know had when they tried to get some straight line use from them WITH NO ANTI HOP ADD ONS.
With SouthSide Machine bars or Cal Tracs I have see nlimite success. For most people the spring still likes to wrap up but if you use the olde track trick and cut some pipe the same width as the spring and weld a flat plat to it and contour them to springs at rest and make those your spring clamp and do away with stock type spring mounts and add on aset of regular spring cups you will get a slightly stiffer ride, loose some handling and pretty much never wheel hope with a well adjusted double adj shock.
BUT the tiangualted 4 link from ART is awesome. Many will poo poo air ride but I had a 71 Monte Carlo that would ,on cheap street tires, pull consistent ,down the thousandth, 60 foot times. 4000lb+ car, 3.55 gears,mild 350, TCI Saturday Night Special and Street Fighter trans and pulled 2.085-2.089 60 fts. My buddies first gave me s--t about slow 60s but gee whiz I had maybe 350 hp underhood, full 2 1/5 exhaust on daily driver weighing in at 4000lbs + and it ran low 10s first time out in 8th,corrected to 13's in 1/4 and with little more engine/converter would have had 1.60 60 ft and consistent low 8s/high 7's in 8th mile (friend copied my set up in his Chevelle but with more engine and it has ran best of 6.30s then geared it down more and ran5.90s,,, in a steel car ).
The air ride springs work MUCH better than leafs, that why i have Air on my truck too!!!
Good luck
Lee Abel

[dgoetz]

dgoetz,
You can legally use a three link in CP????
I thought you had to stick with original suspension type and mounting points.

FYI,
I did a test of Hotchkis leaf springs in torsion. They take 27 ft lbs per degree to twist in the car for one spring. They use a stock front bushing, and Polyurethane Energy Suspension type shackle bushings.
David

First of all our club is pretty low keyed. I was running SM2 until I changed the rear susp. I thought the rules for SM required org mounting locations thats why I went to CP, I'm running against other cars like late model Camaros with similar sspensions. If I ran at a national level I might even have to run Mod class ( aluminum Eng & engine set back). The people I run against wanted me to move to that class to compete against them. In Mod class i would run by myself and what fun is that? It is still supposed to be fun especially at this level.

[DarkoNova]

FYI,
I did a test of Hotchkis leaf springs in torsion. They take 27 ft lbs per degree to twist in the car for one spring. They use a stock front bushing, and Polyurethane Energy Suspension type shackle bushings.
David

Is that good or bad? What's the rate for stock monos/multis and/or aftermarket springs?

Matt

[chicane67]

Is that good or bad? What's the rate for stock monos/multis and/or aftermarket springs?

Matt

That depends on the springs design, its build and its application.

Aftermarket springs can be built to dial in whatever is required by the application. You can build a spring with a traction bar built right into it... its what and how you manipulate the second leaf's configuration. The second leaf is primarily how you control the location of the IC and the back half of the second leaf controls the axle tramp.

[Lowend]

Chicane
Just curious what you consider to be a better leafspring? The L2 has an extra leaf on the front side and is made from much thicker gauge steel than any other leaf I have seen for our cars.
One thing I can't abide by is GW's reccomendation for Koni shocks, they just don't have the right rates. You really need a tune Bilsten (at least) to make things behave properly.

David, you are allowed to run aftermarket rear suspension designs in CP (the ultimate 1st gen has an odd 4-link setup), but I believe there is a small weight penalty. There is a clause in the rule book that says you are allowed to "clearance the chassis for suspension travel" which can be pretty liberally interprepted if I recall

[David Pozzi]

Chicane
Just curious what you consider to be a better leafspring? The L2 has an extra leaf on the front side and is made from much thicker gauge steel than any other leaf I have seen for our cars.
One thing I can't abide by is GW's reccomendation for Koni shocks, they just don't have the right rates. You really need a tune Bilsten (at least) to make things behave properly.

David, you are allowed to run aftermarket rear suspension designs in CP (the ultimate 1st gen has an odd 4-link setup), but I believe there is a small weight penalty. There is a clause in the rule book that says you are allowed to "clearance the chassis for suspension travel" which can be pretty liberally interprepted if I recall

Thanks, I may autocross my 67 some day and was wondering how much I can get away with...
The guys around here are not going to cut me much slack on the rules I think...

[David Pozzi]

Is that good or bad? What's the rate for stock monos/multis and/or aftermarket springs?

Matt

Matt,
The rate is lower than I expected, I thought it would be around 50 lbs or more. I got 9 degrees pretty easily so they can twist at least that much without any huge binding problems.
I don't have data for other springs, but mono leaf's would be way lower, perhaps a quarter of that, but I'm guessing. Stock multi-leaf springs may not be much lower than the Hotchkis, but that's another guess. If the spring eye bushings were solid aluminum or the Del-A-Lum non-cat-5, it would be a lot stiffer in roll.

The downside supposedly is the stock type bushings twist to their limit, at which point the whole assembly get's much stiffer in roll and the car winds up oversteering, usually on corner exit. I really haven't seen that with the Hotchkis springs. We had much more body roll with the softer shocks, now with stiffer shocks and less body roll there isn't any reduction in corner exit oversteer, but we didn't have any exit oversteer in the first place.

It is thought that stock type bushings allow more twist of the leaf but you lose some directional stability compared to more solid types. Stock bushings cushion acceleration shocks a little which may help keep the tires in contact with the pavement, but it's all speculation and theory.

The cat 5 gives you a solid connection front to rear, but allows a very free twist of the leaf assy. The hoped for result is less corner exit oversteer, and better directional control.
David

[Lowend]

Thanks, I may autocross my 67 some day and was wondering how much I can get away with...
The guys around here are not going to cut me much slack on the rules I think...

Dave - you haven't been to Nat's in awhile. I have seen guys get protested for having the wrong chin spoiler on their S2000... on a 60MPH course.
Those nit-pickers from the east coast are not gonna cut our car ANY slack at Topeka, its legal.
The 3-link is legal in CP

[Norm Peterson]

The 3-link is legal in CP

Absolutely. While the basic suspension types need to be maintained, there's quite a bit of freedom in the details. You can even play around with lengthening/shortening/relocating the wheelbase up to ±1".

17.8.B only restricts the rear suspension type to the retention of a stick axle. Pickup points and linkage components are pretty much unrestricted (you do have to provide a metal barrier between them and the passenger compartment).

Being limited to original suspension arrangement and mounting points sounds more like Street Prepared or Street Touring.

CP has historically been much more tolerant of slightly gray areas than most other classes.

I can't find anything particular regarding engine relocation other than the 51% maximum rear weight limitation and the restriction against relocating the engine or head(s) into the volume provided by firewall recontouring.

Norm