'bu wagon spring rates

[liquidh8]

Hey all, I was wondering what you g-body owners are using for front/rear spring rates. I did a search and saw a few posts, but nothing really compares to my heavy ol' wagon. I have moog 5662's in the front, uncut, and I think I have a case of the wrong springs in the right box. They are really soft. I was thinking about going to 900 lb acfo/hypercoils with the adjustable spacer. And maybe some 250's or 275 in the rear. (has a lot of weight with subs/amps/ etc) It has all the f41 swar bars, and frame/body braces. I'm gonna lose the 2" drop spindles.

[Marcus SC&C]

Holy spring rates Batman! Step away from the 900lb/in springs..slowly. ;) Tell me this. What are you running for shocks? 5662s are as stiff at 579 lbs/in as you need for any street G body. Hell we have customers running 175mph open course road race cars that are running 550lb/in front springs and winning their classes! 180lbs/in should be max in the rear even with the subs etc. Get the rate you want then adj. height with adj. spring perches or thicker spring isolators. I`d be willing to bet your problem is one of dampening,not spring rate a VERY common mistake (and an easy one to make!). Stock spring for the car are in the 350lb/in range. Stock replacement shocks (even some performance ones) are intended to effectively dampen spring within about 20% of that rate. You`re at a much higher rate so many out of the box shocks won`t do a good job of dampening those springs effectively,especially if they have some miles on them. Net result the car feels to soft. Adj. rate shocks would be a big help help in getting the car setup right. We have 5660s (705lb/in) in one of our test cars and if I turn the adj. Varishocks all the way down the car feels soft as a Caddy and bounces all over. Set properly the car is firm but not harsh and works fantastic. Set to full hard it`ll jar your teeth out. When we go over the car again we`re going to drop the spring rates,they just don`t need to be that high. We can get the same performance with a better ride. If adj. shocks are out of the question try to find a set of Bilsteins or Konis for a 2WD 4.3 extended cab S-10,they used the 5662 springs and their rates should match better. The key is setting up the whole package to work well together and not to get get crazy with spring rates or any other one thing. Mark SC&C

[liquidh8]

Thanx Marcus, correction, I have the 5660's, the ones with the 705 lb rate, I have new KYB's gas-a-just's in it front and rear, the rear springs are Bell-tech drops (rate??), supposed to be 1.5 inch, was over 3 inches of drop. I ended up fabbing some spacers for the rear to bring the height back up. (tires almost touched the wheelwells) They also compress real easy. Add a person in the back and it's dragging.

The front on the other hand, It doesn't bounce or anything, It's just when you go over a bump the front end dives till it hits the snubbers. Tires crashing into the wheelwells too. I have the drop spindles, but the MOOG springs are uncut.

I have the 5662's in my Elky with an iron headed big block and it reacts totally different, firm, I like the ride.

BTW, the car is a few lbs shy of 4000 with me and a full tank.

I'll be changing some of that soon. Glass front and rear bumpers, but adding turbo's and associated plumbing. So the car will stay heavy.

I'm just thinking I have a screwed up set of springs.

Everybody is telling me how stiff these springs are, and mine barely keep the car up over bumps, little ones to boot.
Not uncommon luck with me though, but I won't go there

I'll be buying new afco or similar spring and tossing the moogs, but I guess a lower rate the 900. I'd like to know the rate for the bell-techs, so I can go a little higher.

Thanx for the replies.

[liquidh8]

Oh yeah, I had the corrosponding bell-tec nitro-drops in it and the blew out, front and back, in less than 6 months/10,000 miles.

[Marcus SC&C]

It`s possible your springs were misboxed,heck just about anything is possible with Moog springs the last few years. BUT, if your front springs are much softer than the claimed 705lb/in rate how come the KYBs still don`t have enough dampening? As I said our G body with the same spring can duplicate your condition by just turning the dampening down too low. You`re running almost exactly double the spring rate those KYBs were designed to dampen. I`m not suprised by the Nitro Drops we`ve had customers blow them out in one summer. I`d still put a good set of adj. shocks on there before I changed the springs.
If memory serves the Belltechs are progressive rate and not all that stiff (say 130lbs/in and rising or so). If you still want to try Moog springs you can try 5413. It`s an A body wagon spring. They`re 167lbs/in. You may still need your shims as they typically lower a G body just a hair (less than .5"). Mark SC&C

[pav8427]

Althought not right in front of me now, take a good look at a machinist handbook and you will find the formula for figuring out what kind of rate you would have for a coil spring. Probably would be able to find load rate also.

Doug

[liquidh8]

I may pic up the A body wagon springs, not yet though. I don't mind the lowering, I alradey have it lowered. It's just the rear was lower than the front.

I wanna get the front end straitened out. It doesn't bounce around, When I go over a bumps it dives, hits the bump stops, comes way up, then settles back. It doesn't oscillate like a set of worn out shocks do ya know? The KYB's dampen far better the the bell-techs ever did. Though I was looking into the bilstiens that came on the ZQ8 s-10 extremes like you said. Since they were factory with dropped springs. That could be a route to go. I'm gonna pull off the drop spindles, put the stockers back on, cut a coil from the front springs, and use better shocks and try that I guess. Since I don't like how it rides now, I haven't no problems hacking the springs.


Doug, I'll have to search around for something like that.

Jim

[Marcus SC&C]

Jim, a car with 705lb/in springs and say half the correct dampening does oscillate at a totally different frequency than a car with 350lb/in springs and worn out OE shocks. You`re using WAY more travel than you should be,it`s bouncing just more slowly (because you DO have some dampening). You`re gonna have to trust me on this one (or not... ) I help people out with this same thing all the time. ZQ8 application Bilsteins should do a fairly good job of fixing the problem. Also note ZQ8s also use tall "foamy" elastomer progressive rate jounce bumpers (bumpstops) that play a BIG part. Pick a set up,they`re a great upgrade on G bodys. You want GM part# 15956547. They`re cheap and install in 5mins. Mark SC&C

[HILROD]

I had a similar trouble with a wagon. It needed more spring rate in the rear. I never could find a rear spring that would sit right and hold up the heavy back end. Finally I modified the spring perches to hold different spring ends. After that I could back way down on front spring and never rubber the front again. The back would go up and down too much and tranfer the motion to the front and it couldn't keep up. FRANK

[liquidh8]

Mark, I'll be hitting the junk yark tomorrow. I wanna find some blazer spindles with the hubs for the vette brake upgrade. If not, I'm puttting the stock spindles back on. I'll keep the MOOGS, just loose the drop spindle and cut a coil to give me hieght. Then I am gonna price some of the Bilstiens for the ZQ8, depending on the price of them and adjustables, I may buy front adjustables. Definitely gonna get the snubbers though.

Frank, I am getting different rear springs. While at the yard if I find a thirdgen, I'll swipe the rear spring rubbers and the springs. So this way it only has a pigtail on one end. I can cut the spring down some if need be. I wish I knew the factory spring rates for thirdgens though. Anybody??

Thanx guys. I'll be posting on this subject to let yous guys know how I make out.

Jim