Malitude on Chassis Dyno

[yody]

I'm no leg humper either

yeah i have another name for you!

[camcojb]

Don't like the humping reference at all. No, I doubt he'll be posting here, but he's certainly welcome. In fact this place is slowly driving away a lot of the people who have the most to offer, I'm amazed you guys haven't noticed. Threads like this one with the responses like this one has received.

Jody

[1970cuda]

i have a 64 chevelle and i am glad that he built one because they are
the forgoten a body of the world. not to "hump his leg" but he made it able to compete with any new car on the road and if you have ever driven a stock a body it is like driving a water bed. they are slow and thank god for that because they do not stop. my car is a stock 327= 300 hp car and it ran a 15.4 at 94. i don't care if it only made 500 plus hp. the workmanship is outstanding and if you don't like the car or the man then that is ok because there are millions of other cars out there and 6 billion other people out there. just accept the car for what it is, an outstanding car that the owner built to do everthing the HE wanted it to do and not for us.

[Nine Ball]

This place is going right down the toilet. Too bad, it was pretty cool here, but now a bunch of guys who haven't accomplished anything knocking a guy who has.

speak for yourself. Quite a few people here have accomplished many great things and built many fantastic cars. Just because someone doesn't agree with your viewpoints, that isn't any reason to get your feelings hurt.

Here's some figures: Lets say 750 crank HP times 25% drivetrain loss (he's running a 4L80E which eats a LOT of power, plus the rest of the drivetrain and rear end). That would be 562.5 rwhp, he made 560 rwhp. He was running only 23 degrees of timing I was told, but whatever it was it was very conservative. You put 100 octane back in, put the timing back in and run 17-18 psi and you're back pushing 1000 hp at the crank. It's really simple, you de-tune to make it bulletproof and the power will fall off rapidly. Then take the car to the track with pure street tires and spin them 1/4 of the way down the track e.t.'s will suffer!

Man, that sure is alot of excuses. I've been building cars and racing cars for 14 years now and I've yet to see a "25%" drivetrain loss, even with a 4L80e. Most A4 trannys see 18%, and inefficient ones see 20%. Most manuals see 15%. We also gave you plenty of "normal" examples on that last thread to contradict what your claims here are.

I also agree that twin-turbos are overkill for that power output. There are NA stroked LS1s making that power and doing so reliably. Would have been a much lighter engine setup, for better handling and braking ala "pro-touring".

In the end, the Malitude is a beautiful car, with excellent craftsmanship. Mark does one hell of a job when it comes to building a car and showing us some unique things. This car was built to be a daily-drivable toy, to further showcase Mark's building and design skill. I'm sure many of us would have liked to see the performance end pushed out a bit, but that might be down the road perhaps. I'm sure Charley will enjoy the car and the crowd it will attract.

[B Cichocki]

I'll preface this by saying that I'm neither a Stielow "leg-humper" or basher. I dig his cars. I think the Mule is pretty damn cool, but I'm not in the crowd that thinks it's the be-all end-all of 69 Camaros or Pro-Touring cars in general. As such, I don't have a bias one way or another.

With all of this talk about the Malitude and the muted mud-slinging attached, I have a couple of observations. First, there seems to be a bit of the case of the armchair quarterback. "Hell, I coulda made more power and ran faster than that with my hands tied behind my back, blindfolded, for half the money and without that stupid air conditioning and stereo system." Well you know what, you didn't. It's been clearly stated above what his intentions were for this car, and being a track whore wasn't one of them. That brings me to my second point. I would like to know how many members of this website have actually driven a car with 1000 or more horsepower. Or even a car with 560rwhp. I for one haven't but I think it's pretty safe to ASSume that it's a tad more involved than taking your grandma's Camry down to the drugstore to pick up her prescription. Who in the hell REALLY needs 1000hp in a street car, anyway? You need that to pass up the Buick going 40 in the right lane on the freeway? Come on guys. This is a street car for godssake. He built it the way he wanted to, and if he doesn't want to have to fill it up with 110 octane to go to the store or run around on slicks in case he needs to get to the next stoplight in less than 10 seconds, then that's his prerogative. The car is what it is. A kickass street car with a ton of USABLE power that looks cool, stops and handles well (presumably, based on the parts list), and doesn't make you feel like you just endured the Baja 1000 after cruising the town. When you naysayers build something comparable, feel free to step up. Until then...
-Brian
(Burning bridges as I go)

[Nine Ball]

I would like to know how many members of this website have actually driven a car with 1000 or more horsepower. Or even a car with 560rwhp. I for one haven't.....When you naysayers build something comparable, feel free to step up. Until then...

So, if some of us have driven 1000 hp cars, and have built something comparible, does that make our opinions more valid? I don't think so. They are just opinions, and everyone should be allowed to state theirs.

BTW, I have driven a 1000 hp car (Supra and turbo C5), and I have built similar cars. . But, I wouldn't be so quick to say that if someone hasn't done those two things that they know less than I do, or that their opinions matter less.

[yody]

Jody, i understand your frustaration, but i don't think it is fair for you to bash this site, because of one or two threads, especially since it is your friend. Get over it. "leg humping" was just a joke, don't get your panties in a bundle over it. I also don't think this site is going down hill. I think if these threads were really out of line Ralph or larry would shut it down, i think people are voicing their opinions in a fine manner. However i stil agree with my previous post, that when you become an icon there will be a lot of people that will find something to pick apart. As a matter of fact, in almost EVERY post, it is mentioned how nice of a car and the excellent craftsmanship. What more do you want?? I think that the way people are responding is a little rude because it wasn't mark who actually posted, so people feel free to say what they want. because since the owner didn't post there are no feelings to hurt. I guarantee that if Mark posted this and was a member here, people would be giving him the thumbs up, and maybe making a few suggestions. But since we are examining a CAR without the owner really, people are going to state exactly what they think.

[camcojb]

speak for yourself. Quite a few people here have accomplished many great things and built many fantastic cars. Just because someone doesn't agree with your viewpoints, that isn't any reason to get your feelings hurt.


Tony, didn't say there aren't talented car builders here, because there are. But you are losing the best ones and it will continue with moderating as is being done currently. You keep mentioning hurting my feelings. You are not and cannot hurt my feelings Tony. I'm just disappointed that a site I enjoy and have supported for years is going down so far, so fast. You will never keep the cream of the crop guys here because they will not put up with this bashing crap.


Man, that sure is alot of excuses. I've been building cars and racing cars for 14 years now and I've yet to see a "25%" drivetrain loss, even with a 4L80e. Most A4 trannys see 18%, and inefficient ones see 20%. Most manuals see 15%. We also gave you plenty of "normal" examples on that last thread to contradict what your claims here are.

You evidently have not done a lot of chassis dynoing and have been reading too many magazines. If you haven't seen a 25% loss you haven't done back to back dynoing with a 4L80E my friend! I have.

I also agree that twin-turbos are overkill for that power output. There are NA stroked LS1s making that power and doing so reliably. Would have been a much lighter engine setup, for better handling and braking ala "pro-touring".

You know, the LS-1 is not God's gift to the automotive world. Take your N/A LS-1 with 560 rwhp and 600 rwtq and compare the entire torque and power curve (not just the peaks). It will not hang with the twin turbo. I'm starting to wonder how experienced you are in this arena.

In the end, the Malitude is a beautiful car, with excellent craftsmanship. Mark does one hell of a job when it comes to building a car and showing us some unique things. This car was built to be a daily-drivable toy, to further showcase Mark's building and design skill. I'm sure many of us would have liked to see the performance end pushed out a bit, but that might be down the road perhaps. I'm sure Charley will enjoy the car and the crowd it will attract.

Charley does not own this car.

Jody

[camcojb]

Jody, i understand your frustaration, but i don't think it is fair for you to bash this site, because of one or two threads, especially since it is your friend. Get over it. "leg humping" was just a joke, don't get your panties in a bundle over it. I also don't think this site is going down hill. I think if these threads were really out of line Ralph or larry would shut it down, i think people are voicing their opinions in a fine manner. However i stil agree with my previous post, that when you become an icon there will be a lot of people that will find something to pick apart. As a matter of fact, in almost EVERY post, it is mentioned how nice of a car and the excellent craftsmanship. What more do you want?? I think that the way people are responding is a little rude because it wasn't mark who actually posted, so people feel free to say what they want. because since the owner didn't post there are no feelings to hurt. I guarantee that if Mark posted this and was a member here, people would be giving him the thumbs up, and maybe making a few suggestions. But since we are examining a CAR without the owner really, people are going to state exactly what they think.

I'm bashing the moderating, or lack of, not the site. A while ago this bashing wouldn't have been allowed. I like the site, really support Larry in his effort. But the posts that remain bashing things is affecting the site. I know it is because I've seen the e-mails in the background from people very high up in the car building arena that lurk but don't post because of some of the garbage going on. And there's a long list, most of which you'd love to see participating, very well-known names.

Whatever, your guys site, run it the way you see fit. That's your right. I was trying to point out something that I think threatens it is all.

Jody

[yody]

"I know it is because I've seen the e-mails in the background from people very high up in the car building arena that lurk but don't post because of some of the garbage going on. And there's a long list, most of which you'd love to see participating, very well-known names."


sure, why don't you name some? or contact one of the moderators personally. How come they didn't post before? NOw suddenly since these 2 posts, they know don't want to post? sorry i don't buy it. I agree this thread isnt' really going anywhere anymore.

[camcojb]

"I know it is because I've seen the e-mails in the background from people very high up in the car building arena that lurk but don't post because of some of the garbage going on. And there's a long list, most of which you'd love to see participating, very well-known names."


sure, why don't you name some? or contact one of the moderators personally. How come they didn't post before? NOw suddenly since these 2 posts, they know don't want to post? sorry i don't buy it. I agree this thread isnt' really going anywhere anymore.

Whatever Yody! I'm not going to name them. If they wanted everyone to know their thoughts on this board they would have posted. There are different kinds of people in this world. For the most part the Troy Trepaniers, Mark Stielows, Chip Fooses, etc. are older (didn't say old!) and more mature. They won't participate where they are not comfortable. They'll check out a sight and then decide whether to post or not. The sites that allow most everything to be said are fun to watch, get a laugh out of, but I don't participate. That's for the other guys.

Problem is, the guys that have the most to offer, willing to donate to the site , sponsor it with their business, etc. are in the first group not the second.

Jody

[B Cichocki]

So, if some of us have driven 1000 hp cars, and have built something comparible, does that make our opinions more valid? I don't think so. They are just opinions, and everyone should be allowed to state theirs.

BTW, I have driven a 1000 hp car (Supra and turbo C5), and I have built similar cars. . But, I wouldn't be so quick to say that if someone hasn't done those two things that they know less than I do, or that their opinions matter less.

Aha! The classic example of taking a quote out of context. You took two of my satements that were completely separate and tied them together. [Sarcasm] You're not going to take over for Dan Rather are you? [/Sarcasm] Of course someone's opinion doesn't mean less if they haven't driven or built a car with 1000hp. And I am in no way saying that people shouldn't be able to state theirs. My remark about driving a car with that much power was meant to put this into perspective. No matter what kind of car has it, be it an LS1 Camaro or an SL55 AMG Benz, anything around 560 hp at the wheels is a hell of alot any which way you slice it. ESPECIALLY for something that isn't a dedicated track car. So is it really such a godawful terrible shame that this car isn't making 800 hp at the wheels? Why do we even care how much power this car is making? It's like the people who read tabloids and just absolutely have to know what is going on in Britney Spears' life. Does it affect you at all? Does it make you all feel bad inside that it's not at it's "full potential?" If he wants it at 560, then so be it. Lord knows I'll be able to sleep tonight knowing that it's so grossly underperforming. I'll admit that I'm being a bit of a hypocrite here. Take my car for example. I can tell you right now that it is not going to see a ton of track time. Does it need a procharged big block? Nope. Do I really need 15" brakes with 6-piston Alcons? No way. Is it mainly going to see street duty? You betcha. So why all the hardcore parts if I ain't gonna use em? Because I want them on the car. It's MY CAR. My money, my prerogative. Stielow's car, Stielow's money, Stielow's prerogative to do whatever in the hell he wants without people jumping all over him for not building HIS car as the peanut gallery sees fit. If he wants to put 24" spinners on it, then more power to him. I'm not going to call him out on it in public. I may not like it, but it's not my place to rain on his, or anyone elses, parade. That's MY opinion and I'm sticking to it.
-Brian

[Larry Callahan]

I hate it when threads go the way this one has. I must admit that for some time things have been going down hill with the quality of posts and it's not fun. Although I do think it is fun for some because there seems to be a trend going on. In almost every one of the threads that gets out of hand there is usually one or two people in them who just can't help but to stir things up and it's always the same person or two. I don't remember ever having to ban anyone but it may come to it very soon.

If you don't have something constructive to say don't say it. I have no problem with people putting an opinion out there and even complaining. Everything is not perfect.

If you think your post is just going piss people off and not be constructive, don't post it.

With that said, I am closing this thread.

[Ralph LoGrasso]

I also don't think this site is going down hill. I think if these threads were really out of line Ralph or larry would shut it down, i think people are voicing their opinions in a fine manner.

I'm bashing the moderating, or lack of, not the site. A while ago this bashing wouldn't have been allowed. I like the site, really support Larry in his effort. But the posts that remain bashing things is affecting the site. I know it is because I've seen the e-mails in the background from people very high up in the car building arena that lurk but don't post because of some of the garbage going on. And there's a long list, most of which you'd love to see participating, very well-known names.

Whatever, your guys site, run it the way you see fit. That's your right. I was trying to point out something that I think threatens it is all.

Jody

I'm glad Larry closed this thread, as it got out of hand real fast.

The only people who have the ability to close a thread in the Open Discussion forum are Larry and myself as we're the only moderators of this forum. Unfortunately I was out all day at work and am just now sifting through the thread at 8:50 EST.