looking to maybe carb an LS1

[DCx]

i really hate all the run around with the elctrical stuff. only reason i want to carb the LS1 is for the aluminum block. so my question is. if i score a clean take out engine that has all the electronics and stuff on it what are my chances of selling say the, stock intake, TB, fuel rails, wiring, and all that stuff. im pretty much after a complete long block, valve covers, coil pack mounts, and what ever odds and ends i need to make it work. it would be going in to a 69 camaro, so im sure im covered when it comes to motor mounts, headers, and other odds and ends. looking to add dart heads, cam, and so on. pretty much all the same stuff i got on my GEN1 engine.

so what can i expect to pay for a LS1 take out? looking to spend maybe $2000 on the engine and salvage what i can in parts in the forums to re coop the cost of the new parts. such as mds wires, rocker arms, and manifold with MSD Box.



its just an idea i got in my head.

thanks

justin

[pist0lpete]

You will be hard pressed to find a low mile LS1 takeout complete for $2000. It is possible but you will have to search. You could find an iron block for the price easily but you want aluminum. As far as doing the carb setup goes its a proven performer and usually gains a little power up top. However, this is at the sacrifice of driveability, part throttle performance, throttle response, gas mileage etc. Not to mention the fact that you still have to run all the wiring and the LS1 computer. For what you pay for the carb and intake and ignition control box you could just about have your wiring harness modified by somebody like speartech and have your car tuned by your local LS1 tuner. Just some food for thought.

[Steve1968LS2]

I still don't get the concept of going with a carb.. you will still need a computer (and wires) to run the coil on plug deal. You'll only save on not having to wire injectors. Also, when cleaned up there really isn't that much wiring. In fact wiring my LS2 was the easiest part of the deal.

And you will be able to sell the extra parts depending on what you get. Not much of a market for LS1 intakes. LS6 intakes yes..

I bought an LS1/4L60e combo for $2800 several years ago, so $2000 today is not out of line - but it won't be easy. You may also want to keep and eye on ls1tech.com (classifieds) since deals pop up there all the time for long blocks and such.

[parsonsj]

you will still need a computer (and wires) to run the coil on plug deal.

Not really. You can go with an MSD setup to run the ignition, or you can get a new front cover and run a distributor. GMPP sells that, or give Wegner a call.

The best reason I can see for ditching the factory computer and EFI is to allow easier tuning. If you use a carb and an MSD ignition, you're back doing tuning just like always with vacuum gauges, reading plugs, etc. It's doubtful (and probably impossible) to get a carb to be as drivable as the factory EFI, but that may a tradeoff lots of guys are willing to do.

jp

[andrewb70]

Selling off the parts that you do not need will not be a problem. There always seems to be a market for stock intakes, TB, etc...

Andrew

[DCx]

From what i gather, the edelbrock intake comes with all the wires to make the ignition work. it also comes with a MSD box that takes pills like the 6AL. MSD just came out with a box that you pulg into a lap top and you tune away. also if i use LS1 headers with no O2s in them cant i hook up wide band for tuning?

here is a PDF for the MSD box
http://static.summitracing.com/globa...0_frm26894.pdf

edelbrock PDF
http://static.summitracing.com/globa...edvictorjr.pdf

very good read
http://www.superchevy.com/technical/...s/0409sc_gmpp/

so i guess im just looking for a good ls1/ls2 long block since i dont need anything else. i already planned on buying MSD wires and coil packs. are stock LS1 heads really all that great? or are after market the way to go? looking to make 500hp or more with off the shelf valve train. i would be reusing my 750 mighty demon.

[Steve1968LS2]

Not really. You can go with an MSD setup to run the ignition, or you can get a new front cover and run a distributor. GMPP sells that, or give Wegner a call.

The best reason I can see for ditching the factory computer and EFI is to allow easier tuning. If you use a carb and an MSD ignition, you're back doing tuning just like always with vacuum gauges, reading plugs, etc. It's doubtful (and probably impossible) to get a carb to be as drivable as the factory EFI, but that may a tradeoff lots of guys are willing to do.

jp

Yea, but how much will all of that cost? the adaptor to run the disty.. the MSD stuff.. the distributor itself.

lol.. tuning the factory ECU is cake once you get used to it.. and with the laptop you don't even have to get your hands dirty ;)

I just don't see the cost benefit.. he will sell of the unused LS1 stuff for pennies and spend $$$$ on all the carb/distributor conversion stuff.

All to gain some top end power and loose daily drivability (and mpg)..

[Steve1968LS2]

so i guess im just looking for a good ls1/ls2 long block since i dont need anything else. i already planned on buying MSD wires and coil packs. are stock LS1 heads really all that great? or are after market the way to go? looking to make 500hp or more with off the shelf valve train. i would be reusing my 750 mighty demon.

Ported and reworked LS1 heads arn't bad.. LS6 heads however are better. The aftermarket heads are better if you are running FI or nitrous since they have thicker/stronger castings.

[parsonsj]

tuning the factory ECU is cake once you get used to it.. and with the laptop you don't even have to get your hands dirty

Once you get used to it? Of course that's true. On the other hand, if one is already used to tuning with a carb, then the carb/MSD/distributor setup is a viable option. And don't forget the cost of upgrading the fuel delivery system to run EFI.

Think of it this way: if I've got an iron block/iron head SBC and I want to step up to an aluminum block and heads plus some more power due to better head design I can go this route. It's cheaper than buying GM or aftermarket aluminum offerings.

Me, I'm not running a carb or the factory ECU: I'm running an aftermarket EFI with FAST's crank decoder and eDIST.

jp

[DCx]

i also have a full built aluminum head, demon carb, yada yada, gen 1 motor in my car that has no miles on it. im just toying with the fact of building it in the corner of my garage out of spare time and money.

either that or i spend a butt load of money on a ricks gas tank, build a new short block, and add a D1SC down the road. either way its money.

it would be pretty cool to add A T56 down the line too. see i built my car totally old school. Iron block, aluminum head gen1 motor, auto gear m22. if i had the chance or the schooling sooner i would have went with the complete LS1 drive train. i cant even re use my clutch as the center force i have now is 10 spline. so considering the swap i would need an entire new drivetrain.

i still cringe at the fact of fuel injection. the painless chassis harness was enough to make me sick of wiring. like i said before. this would be for the weight savings as my car is more of a 1/4 mile type of deal.

it just dawned on me. how the heck would i used the muncie? there isnt a pivot ball on the LSX for mechanical clutch linkage.

[parsonsj]

how the heck would i use the muncie?

Use your existing bellhousing (if it's the big flywheel version). It will bolt to the LS1, minus the bolt hole at 2 o'clock. The spacing is the same. Not so sure about the pilot bushing/bearing, but maybe somebody else knows. If you want to step up, get a McLeod or Lakewood scattershield.

jp

[Ron S]

There have seen stock bottom ends,fuel injected ls1's running low 10's,I've even heard a couple in the 9's on spray.I'm with Steve,why spend the money on all those aftermarket parts,when for about the same money you get the drivability and fuel economy of fuel injection. Ron

[DCx]

i dont want to spend the cash on the fuel system or upgrade to an ECU. i dont care about gas milage.

im using a lakewood bell at the moment.

this isnt a bad deal. sell off the intake, wiring, TB, and what ever else. and come out with a decent engine.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Compl...47524953QQrdZ1

[pist0lpete]

If you can think you can save money by going carb'd I would hate see you dissapointed. It may be possible if you can find all the car conversion pieces used at a great price but otherwise its not gonna save you money. If you are hardcore oldschool and only desire carb'd vehicles than more power to ya and good luck.

[Steve1968LS2]

Once you get used to it? Of course that's true. On the other hand, if one is already used to tuning with a carb, then the carb/MSD/distributor setup is a viable option. And don't forget the cost of upgrading the fuel delivery system to run EFI.

Think of it this way: if I've got an iron block/iron head SBC and I want to step up to an aluminum block and heads plus some more power due to better head design I can go this route. It's cheaper than buying GM or aftermarket aluminum offerings.

Me, I'm not running a carb or the factory ECU: I'm running an aftermarket EFI with FAST's crank decoder and eDIST.

jp

You don't HAVE to upgrade the fuel system much if you're not putting out big power.. a $40 vette reg/filter and a sumped up tank with walboro pump is all you need..

:p

I just don't see it as being cheaper.. but it sure looks hella cool

[Steve1968LS2]

Wireing my engine with my Speartech harness was the easiest part of the install.. took all of 40 minutes to plug it in.. lol

Haven't tired the Painless wire loom.. if you stick with all OEM stuff it's pretty cheap and easy to LSx your ride.. and not THAT expensive.

Back to the point of your thread.. I would try to find a cheap long block minus the stuff you don't need. Then you don't have to hassle trying to sell it. Watch ePay and LS1tech.com ... the deals are out there.

[DCx]

im just keeping my options open.

i would part out or sell my current engine to make up for the cost.

how much did your wiring harness cost? arnt they close to $700 -$1000 just for the harness? also spending $600 on a DSE, ricks, or rock valley tank turns me off also.

[Steve1968LS2]

im just keeping my options open.

i would part out or sell my current engine to make up for the cost.

how much did your wiring harness cost? arnt they close to $700 -$1000 just for the harness? also spending $600 on a DSE, ricks, or rock valley tank turns me off also.

Well you could go budget and sump a factory tank.. a guy here did that deal for $400 or so (can't remember)

Yea, the harness will cost you.. most likely a grand. But how much will all the carb stuff cost you? and you will need a system to control the coil on plug unless you buy the disty adaptor and that costs $$$ as well. In your case it sounds like you already have the carb.. just point out for others that a carbed LSx is not necessarily cheaper.

Please don't think Im trying to talk you out of it.. carb'd LSx engines are cool as hell.. just discussing

[Van B]

Use your existing bellhousing (if it's the big flywheel version). It will bolt to the LS1, minus the bolt hole at 2 o'clock. The spacing is the same. Not so sure about the pilot bushing/bearing, but maybe somebody else knows. If you want to step up, get a McLeod or Lakewood scattershield.

jp

I have the pilot bearing. There were two recesses in my LS2 crank one small diameter and one larger the larger one is toward the back of the crank.

[DCx]

i already have a 750 might demon carb. the msd box that comes with the edelbrock intake comes with the wiring to fire the coil on plug. there is nothing else needed but a carb, the intake, ignition box, wiring harness, coil packs, and 12v. the hook up for the box is just like a 6AL. The box has a tach lead, ground, and 12v power supply. other then plugging the boxs harness to the factory coil packs the wiring is a direct swap from the existing 6AL box i have wired in my car. making it such an easy swap.

the instructions state:


"The manifold includes an electronic Timing Control Module, which picks up MAP, Crank Position, Cam Position, and drives the stock Coil-On-Plug ignition system with the proper ignition timing."

i have looked at many sources on the net that took a fulie LSx, tore off the intake, installed the edelbrock intake, plugged box in to the harness to the coil packs and fired it up.

I posted the links above in PDF form on how to install the box. the edelbrock link has crappy pictures. the msd box has good info but doesnt show the intake install.

all in all sounds simple to me.

i have taken in consideration that i need an electric fuel pump, motor mounts, headers, and odds and ends like water neck, and maybe new power steering lines. see my problem is i have a drive train that needs re worked also. so im going to take a hit on that. as im sure it would be a pain to fab up a bracket for the clutch pivot ball for the mechanical clutch linkage. and the uncertainty of being able to use a muncie. because if i did swap to a t56 in the process i would need a new clutch. i built my muncie using a 10 spline main shaft. wish i had gone with the 26 spline.