My LS1 Build.....

[trapin]

I will, Buddy. By the way...PM sent.

[WS6]

For $800 even if the runner volume is 230+ that's a deal I would jump on if you trust the guy. By trust I mean that he hasn't played with the flow test in order to show better than it actually is. If later on you desire more and have the budget you can get the AFR or other heads and simply swap out the heads.

Do be careful as I have no idea if at one time the 5.3 switched from perimeter to center bolt valve covers. The 97-98 ls heads were perimeter and the 99 up were center bolt.

[trapin]

Thanks for the advice, Trey.

Interestingly I'm getting a different opinion from the folks at LS1tech. Here's what a moderator had to say over there.....

5.3s will bump up your compression a lot. There are
chamber volume based CR posts in the Internal section.
You need to be somewhere that fuel quality is high, to
want the 5.3s on a 5.7 stock long block. If all you have
is 91 octane, I wouldn't.

310 is a mighty high flow number for a stock head even
ported. Couple of things. One, to get that high you may
have sacrificed things that make for decent low- to
mid-RPM torque and fuel economy (mixing from swirl).
Two, that high a number may have come from a
funny flow test, at lifts higher than a sane cam will
give you or at higher than the cam you mean to use,
will open a valve.

For the amount of work done and the parts on it,
the price seems fair. But whether these heads fit
-your- motor plan, is the right question to ask. If
not your car may be a stumbling pig on the street.

I don't know....I'm still confused. I don't plan to go with a radical camshaft. 228/230 at the most 580 lift with a LS of 112-114. I like the features the 5.3 heads have but I'm weary of the combustion chamber being so tight. A big part of me wants to forego these heads and just let Livernois spec out my motor for me. If I try to do it myself....I just know I'll screw up something.

[Damn True]

What about the GMPP ported LS6 head? Pretty affordable and if memory serves, it flows around 290 or so.

[andrewb70]

Or just stock LS6 (243 castings) heads. I am making about 385RWHP with a stock LS6 and a baby cam. A 228/230 cam would add 15-20HP over my combo and nice headers will increase that by another 10. So your looking at 410-415 RWHP easy. I am a big fan of stock heads because I think many porters focus too much on flow numbers. In other words I don't trust them to make a port that won't kill the low end.

As a reference, ZZ502/502 routinely put down about 365 RWHP through a TH400 trans. With a manual they will make 380-390. Don't stress out over all this Tony. These engines are hard to mess up.

Andrew

[Ralph LoGrasso]

I haven't done any research on 'em, but the new 205 Dart heads are a major bargain (as far as aftermarket castings are concerned) at around $1,400 for a set (from Speed Inc.). The price has me thinking a lot about throwing a set on my '01.

[WS6]

he did a better job of saying what I was trying to say. Honestly, if you have the money, let Livernoise spec everything for you. You don't have to have them do the install, but if they have proven packages that fit your budget and make power where you need it, I say stay in one place. When you do that you don't have to worry about flow numbers of various heads. That doesn't matter. What does is will the combo work for you.

Andrew has a very good point about porting for the numbers which is another reason I prefer as cast heads or a completely new head like the AFRs. Not everyone or even me has 2200 to drop on just the heads though.

Ralph is that assembled? I thought that was bare? If that's assembled, that could make for a hell of a deal considering ported LS6 heads go for $1200 and have huge runners.

[Ralph LoGrasso]

$734 each assembled.

Here is a flow chart from Speed Incs site:

[WS6]

Man I would seriously look into those for that price. I had heard about the new heads from Dart along with their block. These are the first specs I have seen on them though. Thanks.

[ZL-1]

I would definately rethink going to Livernois.

[Steve68]

Like True said LS6 ported heads,Thats the ones I'm thinking or AFR's

[Rybar]

The Dart's definatley look good for the price. Otherwise maybe look into some Patriot LS6 heads. I just took delivery of my ETP 215's which will be going on shortly. One of the reasons I chose ETP over AFR was the 11 degree valve angle, it allows more cam and piston to valve clearance over standard LS1 style heads. see: www.etheads.com

[JMarsa]

Trapin,

Check out this thread and the head review from GMHTP mag.

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showth...light=dart+205

--JMarsa

[trapin]

I just wanted to share this...

Yesterday I started tearing down the LS1 and made a pile of parts that will not be going back on this engine when it's done. When I saw how much stuff there was, I was amazed and out of curiosity decided to see how much it weighed. I got out my trusty Berkely fish scale (handle and hook version) and started picking up parts to weigh them. In total I permanently removed 60 pounds of parts off the motor. I could not believe it. The motor mounts were 9.5 pounds a piece. The exhaust manifolds combined were 21 pounds, air conditioning generator was 18.5 pounds and a host of other parts, brackets, hoses and an EGR system rounded out the weight.

I can't believe how heavy the motor mounts were....19 pounds combined.

[WS6]

Was this a vette motor?

[trapin]

Nope. '99 Trans Am.

[trapin]

Alright guys...after extensive research, this is what I've come up with. Let me run this past you.

- 228/228 .588/.588 lift 112 lsa
- LS6 CNC Ported Heads 2.00/1.55 valves
- LS6 Intake
- Stock Injectors
- Stock Throttle Body (ported/modified)
- LS2 Timing Chain
- LS6 Ported Oil Pump
- Chrome Moly Push Rods

For the trans I will run a 2800 stall.

So what do you think......am I done? Thanks.

[Steve68]

I think you night be happier with a 114 lsa, why the "L7" square measurements on the cam??

[trapin]

Square measurements....those are the specs on Texas Speed's website. Is that not a good camshaft choice? Wouldn't the 114 lsa make it sound like a stock motor?

[WS6]

114 will smooth it out at idle and for an auto would be a good idea. That cam on 112 is really for the manuals where as the same cam on a 114 is for the autos. It just makes drivability and tuning easier to use the 114 and the power will basically be the same. TSP should have some comment to that affect by those cams. Or maybe it was Thunder Racing that does that.

Anyway that is minor. I think your overall plan is good I would go ahead and get 30lb injectors though. You are at the borderline with that combo and 30lbers won't burt anything.

Also, maybe later down the line if you choose and money is good, upgrade those heads. I just really do not like 230+cc runners when you can make the same power with 205 or 210cc heads. AFRs are 205s and RHS and Dart are like 210 and 215. I like velocity in my heads and 230 is hogged out. Also what are those new GM heads L92 or something. They are LS7 based and while they require a specific intake, it is still a good deal. This is all upgrades though.

You will be happy with that combo. I did that same cam on a 114 for a 98 SS auto with a 3200 stall and 3.23 gears. He really enjoyed that cam