Help! Insurance with No Garage

[Krashyman]

Does anyone have an agreed value policy on a pro-touring car where the policy does NOT have a garage requirement or know of any companies that provide this?

I currently have a regular policy on my project car, but I need an agreed value policy once it's done. My house does not have a garage (only a driveway) and it seems that all of the collector car insurance companies have a garage requirement.

After searcing pro-touring.com and other sites for an answer, it seems that some people have used State Farm for an agreed value policy. But, I called State Farm and they said no to me when I called and explained what I was looking for (even with 15+ years of driving and a completely clean driving record).

Please help me if you can!

[JoshStratton]

EDIT: Mike's right. It was a dumb question.

[DarkBuddha]

Check with your local State Farm agent. I arranged an agreed value policy with them for my Mach. The agreed amount was $14k at the time, and it included 100/300 limits, 100k of medical, 100k of damage, collision and comprensive, with a $500 deductible, and it was something like $850 per year here in Seattle... about what my wife pays on her '03 Corolla. Oh, and I was already over 25, married, and hadn't had a ticket in 6 years.

They eventually dropped my policy because the car wasn't "in my possession" since it was being stored in a nice safe garage rather than at my condo. Ironically, since the car still isn't done, if they'd just kept the policy going they would've made $850/year off of me for several more years without any threat of ever having to pay a claim.

Might be a dumb question, but could you say you are garaging it at a "friend's" house? I really have no idea if that would work.

Nah... I don't think that will work. Heck, State Farm sent an investigator to my place to find out if the car was being kept there.

[Krashyman]

Thanks for the responses so far. It seems the collector insurance companies require a garage at your house.

As for State Farm, I called them back and they said that, given the modifications to the car (new engine, new chassis, etc.) and the high total value of the car, they cannot write an agreed value policy. They said they can insure the car, but they can't tell me now what the payment would be in case of a total loss -- it would be up to the claims department to determine this. Everything I read is saying not to do this type of policy and that you really need an agreed value policy.

So, anyone else have any ideas? Again, it will be a highly modified car with a high value that does not have a garage. Thanks!

[Neil B]

Thanks for the responses so far. It seems the collector insurance companies require a garage at your house.

For what it's worth, I insured my car through Grundy while I was between houses. I lived in an apartment for 6 mos. and stored the car at a self-storage facility about a mile away. I explained this to them and it was not an issue. They do, however, require the car to be stored inside.

I also stored this same car in San Francisco (in the city) in a rented garage not at my home. No issues with insurance.

[JoshStratton]

Can I ask why an agreed valued policy is beneficial? Is it so you dont get reemed in case of an accident? Couldnt you just present an appraisal if an accident happend? Sorry for my ignorance, I let my wife take care of that crap since we go through her grandfather's company and i do not have a real vested interest at this point.

[Krashyman]

I just talked with Hagerty insurance and they told me I can store in a garage that is not at my house . . . and so I do have an option of storing it in a storage place that is about a mile from my house. I'd like to avoid this if possible -- just because it would be a bit of a hassle to park it there each time I drive it.

As for an agreed value policy, my understanding is that, without one, the insurance company can just use blue book value if there is a total loss. They might take into account upgrades to a certain extent, but you don't know what they'll give you until there is a claim. And, with the amount of work we're doing to the car, the value will be no where near the bluebook value for the car. I could be wrong about all of this and I would really appreciate hearing others' views.

Thanks again!

Josh

[Krashyman]

I just found out that collector car insurance companies also require a car for every licensed driver in the house in addition to the classic car. My wife and I share one car and so collector car companies are out unless we buy another car.

I also learned that there are three types of policies:

(1) Actual Cash Value (these are the normal policies we have for our regular cars -- claims are based on actual value of the car, so they will take into account upgrades, etc., but they can decide whatever they want to decide in terms of the value;

(2) Stated Value (these policies state a value on the policy and many people think the policies will pay that value, but they won't . . . in fact, these policies say that they will pay only the actual cash value "up to" the stated value, so all they really do is put a limit on the top end of your claim -- otherwise, they really are actual cash value policies that you pay a higher premium for); and

(3) Agreed Value (these policies are the only ones that guarantee to pay the amount that is agreed to on the policy or the amount it costs to repair the car if it is less than the agreed to amount).

So, if I want an agreed value policy, I'll need to find a regular insurance company that offers these types of policies with no garage restrictions.

Help!

[PeteRR]

I had this discussion with my insurance company, American Collector, when I sold my house to go on the road. As long as the car is stored in secure, individual storage where only the owner and facility owner has access, they don't have a problem with it. I ended up renting a 10x24 climate controlled unit from Public Storage. I looked online among all of the local PS sites to find the cheapest rate.

[vintageracer]

Collector car policies are cheap because the insurer has a VERY SMALL EXPOSURE to a claim. With a collector car policy the car is not a daily driver, it is not stored in common view but in a required GARAGE, total annual mileage is generally limited and the type of use of the car can/is severely limited. Raising the exposure with no garage storage quickly changes the insurors exposure and the policy price rises quickly. Change any of these parameters and one of two things happens, the insurance classification/premium rises dramatically or the insurer will not insure the car at all!

From the description of what you want, you want your cake and be eat it too. Good luck as I doubt you will find anyone who will insure the car based upon the prameters you have outlined. The problem with a "Pro-Touring" car is the modifications that are made. There are established methods for determining value of a stock collector car or daily driver type of car. The fact that you have added $20K worth of engine, transmission, brakes, suspension to Rambler Station Wagon will still not make the car worth $20K!

It has been suggested that you use a friends or offsite garage when the insuror requires an onsite garage at your place of residence or tell them you have a garage when you do not. This is foolish since insurance obtained under false pretences is fraud. If you have a claim and the insuror investigates, and they will, they will find the truth and you will be out the car and the premiums you paid. The wrong or incorrect insurance to meet your needs or circumstances is just as good as no insurance at all!

The requirement of any insurance policy on a car is to replace the car/asset that is a total loss at the market value on the day of the loss regardless of the type of policy IF that policy has comprehensive/collision coverage. If you have $20K invested in a $10K car, shame on you! If you have $10K invested in a $20K car congratulations as you are about to make $10K! The insuror has a contractual obligation to you just as you do to them. This is outlined in your policy, READ IT! This policy does NOT allow the insuror to payout whatever they "feel" you car is worth. There are many legally recognized methods for determining value of an asset such as a car on the day of loss if it relatively stock as per other similiar make/model cars currently available for sale in the market place. If your car is a total loss and you have the "proper" policy/coverage, the insuror must/will pay you the "market" value or your car as of the date of loss. An agreed policy makes this easy since everyone has agreed on the frontend what the value of the car is and therefore the total liability will be to the insuror. Given the expensive modifications generally made to a Pro-Touring car, and agreed policy is really the only type of policy you should consider. A stated value or cash value policy will generally limit the top end amount you will receive based upon market conditions. Since "most" cars drop in value over time this is a better deal for the insuror. With these policies the expensive modifications you have made to the vehicle will probably be for free since they will not positively affect the market value of the vehicle since most similiar vehicles used for price comparisons will not/do not have the type of modifications we make to our cars. Of course a stated value or cash value policy allows more liberal use of the car on a daily basis than a collector car agreed value policy and therefore these policies more expensive in cost and more restrictive in coverage provided.

I would look in your local neighborhood for an older couple/widow that has a garage space they are not using. This will solve the problem of distance and probably will be much cheaper. Most folks in this situation would take $20-$50/month to use their garage for storage. The commercial storage places in most cities are at least $100/month for a 10x20. This may be a cheap way to meet the garage requirement. Just remember that even at $20/month, this adds at least $240/year to the cost of insurance. It might be cheaper to have a regular automobile insurance policy and take your chances with more exposure/loss on your part. If you choose this option you will now you know why the insurance company wants you to have a garage, more risk, more money!!!

[Krashyman]

Thanks for the comments, Mike -- and I agree with most of what you said. The only thing I disagree with is your comment that I'm trying to get my cake and eat it too. I don't think I can get, or should be able to get, an agreed value policy without the garage restrictions or the other collector insurance restrictions for the same premiums as a policy with those restrictions. I would expect to pay more -- much more -- for such a policy. What surprises me is that they do not seem to be offered at all, for any price.

It seems there should be plenty of people who (i) have pro-touring, classic, modified, or specialty cars that do not have an easily determinable actual cash value, (ii) want to drive these cars more than the limited purposes allowed in collector insurance policies, (iii) do not have a garage, and/or (iv) do not have one additional car per licensed driver in the household. But, if you can't meet each one of these restrictions, you can't get a collector insurance policy. I mean, if you have a wife and two kids over 16 in your house, you would need four regular cars PLUS your pro-touring car.

Also, as you said Mike, it would be stupid to try to fit my situation into these restrictions and then later happen to slip up on one of them. In other words, let's say I get the storage space a mile from my house. But, I decide to take my car for a leisure drive one weekend and, when I get home, decide to leave it in the driveway for a couple of hours. If it got stolen, I guarantee you I would have issues with the claim. Or, if I decided to drive my car to work one day -- not as a commuter car, but just to show it to my friends -- and got into an accident, again my guess is there would be an issue with the claim.

So back to my situation. Why aren't there policies that don't have these restrictions, but simply cost more for the premiums. I mean, I have no accidents or tickets, never had a claim on my insurance policy (and I have been driving for almost 20 years), live in a safe neighborhood, and plan to use the car on a limited basis. All I want is for an insurance company to agree to set a value on my car at the outset rather than wait until there is a claim to hash it out. I would submit the car to any appraiser they wanted and provide all photos, invoices, purchase orders, etc. It doesn't seem crazy to think there is such an option avalaible in the insurance market -- for an appropriate (and higher) price.

[DarkBuddha]

Thanks for the responses so far. It seems the collector insurance companies require a garage at your house.

As for State Farm, I called them back and they said that, given the modifications to the car (new engine, new chassis, etc.) and the high total value of the car, they cannot write an agreed value policy. They said they can insure the car, but they can't tell me now what the payment would be in case of a total loss -- it would be up to the claims department to determine this. Everything I read is saying not to do this type of policy and that you really need an agreed value policy.

So, anyone else have any ideas? Again, it will be a highly modified car with a high value that does not have a garage. Thanks!

I'm surprised... State Farm seemed very willing to work with me on my car at the time. The agent had to spend some time working with their underwriting department, but ultimately said the could do it. Perhaps follow up with them again and see if some compromise can be made. For example, if you're able to provide them with pictures, an annual professional third party appraisal, etc., maybe they'll be more willing to work with you?

I do empathize with your situation for sure, 'cause I'll be there soon enough. Ultimately, I may be willing to do an ACV policy and just make sure that I regularly document upgrades and the condition of the car every year with an appraisal. That way I'll have a way to verify the condition of the car if/when an insurance claim comes up for negotiation.

[BonzoHansen]

I just found out that collector car insurance companies also require a car for every licensed driver in the house in addition to the classic car. My wife and I share one car and so collector car companies are out unless we buy another car.

Time to get that beater parts/home depot run truck.

...I ended up renting a 10x24 climate controlled unit from Public Storage. I looked online among all of the local PS sites to find the cheapest rate.

If you don't mind me asking, how much did they hit you for storage? I am trying to get my neighbor to check places like that - he needs a safe place to store his 03 Mach I and 93 GT ragtop so he can start his 69 KJ car.

[PeteRR]

If you don't mind me asking, how much did they hit you for storage? I am trying to get my neighbor to check places like that - he needs a safe place to store his 03 Mach I and 93 GT ragtop so he can start his 69 KJ car.

IIRC, it's something like $160/month.

[BonzoHansen]

IIRC, it's something like $160/month.

Thanks for the mucho-quick answer.

[PeteRR]

Thanks for the mucho-quick answer.

No problem. I'm on standby at my rented condo. The plant is paying me 10 hours today to surf the net and watch TV. Tomorrow should be much the same.

[Krashyman]

Well, I think I've found my answer. I talked with an agent who works with several insurance companies and Atlantic Mutual will write me an agreed value policy that has no garage, usage, or mileage restrictions. The agreed value will need to be based on a certified appraisal and everything will need to be documented (which is no problem for me). In addition, I am going to need to package the policy with my other insurance needs -- i.e., transfer my other policies (homeowners, etc.) to Atlantic Mutual so that they provide me with a comprehensive package of insurance. This also is no problem for me.

Obviously, my premiums will be higher than with a collector car insurance company, but it will be well worth it because I'll be able to enjoy my car without worrying about the restrictions. And, my hope is that it will be a great deal for Atlantic Mutual because I plan to own the car for years and years and never make any claim whatsoever.

I guess there is always a solution if you put a little time and effort into finding it. Thanks for everyone's input.

[vintageracer]

Don't forget to consider a personal liability umbrella policy if you do not have one when you transfer your coverage to the new carrier.

[Dayton]

FYI,
For those of you with State Farm, you do not have an "agreed value" policy. If you think you do, call your agent and ask them how they will pay a total loss claim.

[Krashyman]

I agree with Big D that State Farm policy owners might think they have an "agreed value" policy, when they really have a "stated value" policy -- see earlier discussion in this thread about the differences.

If your policy has a monetary value identified in it, you still should read the entire policy to see what happens in the case of a total loss. In the fine print, it might say that the policy will pay the lesser of the stated value or actual cash value. This is a "stated value" policy and is really no different than an actual cash value policy (except the stated value policy has a cap). After talking with numerous agents, there seems to be a lot of confusion over this (even with the agents who are selling the policies). And, it can cause an issue because policy holders often think they have agreed value coverage simply because they have a dollar number in their policy.

I should say that it is possible that State Farm also provides "agreed value" policies, but everyone should look at the details of their policy (no matter what carrier) just to make sure.